When did this become acceptable?

[Kralljin]

Why on Earth would some media nonsense about a lawsuit have any impact on the workings of the company? You probably never had a job, but any kind of corporate shenanigans have no impact whatsoever on the workfloor. You honestly think because there's been a few articles about a lawsuit that thousands of people over multiple offices just go sit down behind their desks and cry?

Some Blizz dev actually tweeted that there is basically no work done on WoW since the new broke.
But i think that has nothing to do with the issue at hand because that was a huge problem even before as Blizzard hardly gives a fuck about it.

[DingDongKing]

This is pure and simple escalation. Before there used to be a lot of Old HC being sold on Trade towards the end of a tier.

Now with the amount of real money being funnelled into the game via tokens and MTX, the Mythic boost industry will also thrive. Blizzard won't stop it because it makes them money, plain and simple. Even if people get banned from mentioning it on Trade, these things will still happen.

[Garymorilix]

Because i argue that the dynamic behind boosting is fundamentally different when people have to either engage in ToS breaking activities or have to play the game in a different fashion (=farm gold) in order to engage in it.


It is however a massive factor why people perceive it as problematic.

When i have to fill in some oil once a year into my car, that's normal, when i have to do that every week, it means something broke in my car and i have to look at it.

Considering you are not openly flagged as someone who purchased a boost and people have to take a deeper look to figure out whether someone is boosted, makes it naturally more difficult to spot those people.

Disregarding that those people not necessarily care about this at all because they will then simply continue to buy more boosts.

It naturally matters to those people that played the game for that achievement.
You're not getting an extra achievement for being boosted or some special tag, your kill is objectively identical to that of anyone else.

What car, mate?
This anology makes zero sense.

Your logs are literally grey in everything.
You have 1 cleared 15's dungeon in every dungeon and all your other runs are magically 5-6-7's.
It's very simple to spot a boosted person.

It's very obvious to me that you don't play the game at a level where boosted people are actually kicked left and right.

I did a routine HC pug Nathria run a few months back.
There was this 7/10M warlock in the group, insta invited and shit.
We were at Altimor and wiped once for some reason (it happens with pugs if 1 mechanic is fucked).
7/10M warlock did tank dps the whole time. I wasn't the leader then so I went and checked his logs after this.
All grey on all 7 bosses.
Called him out, he literally admitted it and got called names and kicked right away.

Could he have joined another group? Sure.
Did he do better than tank dps? Nope.

So what if they buy more boosts? What does that have to do with you personally? They are worthless.

What achievement? You know that by getting an 'achievement' I don't actually mean the literal pop-up congratz golden ribbon that shows up when you kill X, right?
That's the 'achiement' you earned in-game. Your actual achievement is nothing.
You will never get invited to another HC Sylvanas group until like 2-3 months into the patch where being 10/10 is actually common.

If you play for meaningless golden ribbons, go ahead, buy your boost.
Then try to apply to a Mythic guild with your grey logs on HC Sylv where you died 1 minute into the fight.

[MrLachyG]

Some Blizz dev actually tweeted that there is basically no work done on WoW since the new broke.
But i think that has nothing to do with the issue at hand because that was a huge problem even before as Blizzard hardly gives a fuck about it.

that doesn't mean that the entire company has stopped. GM's would still be there to do customer service etc.

[Kralljin]

What car, mate?
This anology makes zero sense.

There isn't a lot of boosting going on = It's not a big problem.
There is a lot of boosting going on = It's a problem.

Your logs are literally grey in everything.
You have 1 cleared 15's dungeon in every dungeon and all your other runs are magically 5-6-7's.
It's very simple to spot a boosted person.

Congratz, people have to go through the extra effort of checking people's log in order to figure out whether they're boosted or not.

Disregarding that boosting runs can also choose to not upload their logs and thus those logs will never appear.

Called him out, he literally admitted it and got called names and kicked right away.

Imagine a world where boosting wasn't prevalent and thus would happen far more rarely.
Wiping because some people have the credentials only on paper sure sounds fun for anyone else in the group.

So what if they buy more boosts? What does that have to do with you personally? They are worthless.

People earning rewards by purchasing them with real money rather than playing for them organically does the degrade the value of the achievement.

If everyone is special, no one is.
If that basic concept is beyond you, then that's entirely on you.

Then try to apply to a Mythic guild with your grey logs on HC Sylv where you died 1 minute into the fight.

That implies that those people would actually apply to a Mythic guild and not continue to purchase boosts.

that doesn't mean that the entire company has stopped. GM's would still be there to do customer service etc.

I am once again pointing out that said issue was already going on before the news broke.

[ClassicPeon]

Because i argue that the dynamic behind boosting is fundamentally different when people have to either engage in ToS breaking activities or have to play the game in a different fashion (=farm gold) in order to engage in it.


It is however a massive factor why people perceive it as problematic.

When i have to fill in some oil once a year into my car, that's normal, when i have to do that every week, it means something broke in my car and i have to look at it.

The size or frequency of a specific issue massively influences whether one perceives it is a problem or not.

Considering you are not openly flagged as someone who purchased a boost and people have to take a deeper look to figure out whether someone is boosted, makes it naturally more difficult to spot those people.

Disregarding that those people not necessarily care about this at all because they will then simply continue to buy more boosts.

It naturally matters to those people that played the game for that achievement.
You're not getting an extra achievement for being boosted or some special tag, your kill is objectively identical to that of anyone else.

No because you write things like this:

And i think it's pretty naive to believe that the WoW Token hasn't enabled the boosting scene to grow to that size.

Its litearally jus taken from thin air.

My only argument is that quitting because boosting exists is odd since its always existed.

[OokOok]

Give it time, a certain king said it best "No king rules forever"

Eventually WoW will die out, it won't die but it will die out. MMO players are a dying breed. I know I know some simp sperg will say "BuT WoW HAs LiKE 50MilIOn SubSSSS!"
WoW doesn't even have half the subs it did in WOTLK, since around TOGC subs started to go down and down and they've kept going down. Sure shadowlands sold alot, but doesn't mean much when half those people stop playing a month later. It just encourages blizz to keep making shitty content cause those "1 month players" keep buying new expansions. THIS will cause the long term players to keep quitting overtime. Kind of like Diablo3, new season comes out....player numbers jump.... then they die a month later. Then the dedicated players are left with 4months of playing with no one. WoW will eventually get to this point because of those 1month players.

You see it with the ffxiv exodus currently going on. No ffxiv isn't a wow killer, it's just a better option. WoW will kill wow, it has always been the only game to kill wow. Unlike other MMos it's just taking longer. The sign of this is these pictures, usually this type of stuff doesn't happen until a game can no longer sustain it's playerbase and ppl are forced to purchase this stuff inorder to progress. FFXI is a prime example, it's literally a merc fest, everything you do is just purchased from people carrying you because the game is so group based and no one does group content outside of guilds/linkshells.

WoW is clearly getting a headstart in this merc world and it's not a good sign. Players who don't purchase runs will eventually run out of people to play with or stop getting invites. More and more will quit, i'd say Blizzard around... 2030 if they're still alive will finally acknowledge the game is dying... by then wotlk classic will be out and they'll do "ladder" classic systems where every 2 years servers are wiped. They'll stop making retail content and they'll focus on a new MMO, maybe WoW2(Doubt it) Blizzard knows the money is in microtransactions and they'll prob just focus on adding more of that to classic servers.

[Trbn]

My only argument is that quitting because boosting exists is odd since its always existed.

why?
there was 1 booster in 2010 and 11111 in 2021
why would anyone want to play in this environment?

[Kralljin]

My only argument is that quitting because boosting exists is odd since its always existed.

I think it's pretty obvious from the screenshots of the OP that prevalence of boosting is the issue, not that boosting *exists*.
After all, those screenshots show a multitude of boosting ads, to point out how prominent it has become, not just a single one to prove its existence.

Let's not forget, the person you initially quoted also didn't say: I solely quit because boosting exists.
You also blatantly assumed that the prominence of boosting is irrelevant for their decision to quit, just their existence.
Despite the topic itself putting a spotlight on its prominence, not the existence itself.

[sam86]

whale Andys had raid cleared with boost YEARS before token, since vanila...

bullshit
while boost sales exist pre-token, it was nowhere as rampant as now, since gold back then was just gold, u can't convert gold to actual dollar value since it was just virtual currency
top raiders need gold just for repair bills and consumables, and they are easily obtainable with just 1 day of dailies and done, in my time in top server raiding guild, we did only 1 boost and for fun after a lot of buzzing from a guildmate who was a goblin gold hoarder, just 1 boost in entire wrath era, and was during the boring ToC tier
anyone who claims that boost pre-token is same as post token is delusional, guilds rarely gave a fuck to boost anyone pre-token since it was waste of time (who the fuck need gold, and for what? a single mount? yeah back then also mounts didn't cost 3 million)

My question is: why do you care?

because now the norm to pug anything ppl expect u to have ahead of curve and higher ilvl than whatever it drops, forcing u to either create ur own pug - and ppl who have mentality to lead pugs are busy leading guilds in first place - or gave up on trying to catch up to raid scene or buy tokens to get gold to buy boost to be able to start raid for current tier, assume u don't take break and drop from next tier race, sorry next 'season' since we are now mmo diablo

[Garymorilix]

There isn't a lot of boosting going on = It's not a big problem.
There is a lot of boosting going on = It's a problem.

Congratz, people have to go through the extra effort of checking people's log in order to figure out whether they're boosted or not.

Disregarding that boosting runs can also choose to not upload their logs and thus those logs will never appear.

Imagine a world where boosting wasn't prevalent and thus would happen far more rarely.
Wiping because some people have the credentials only on paper sure sounds fun for anyone else in the group.

People earning the rewards by purchasing them with real money does the degrade the value of the achievement.

If everyone is special, no one is.
If that basic concept is beyond you, then that's entirely on you.

That implies that those people would actually apply to a Mythic guild and not continue to purchase boosts.

I am once again pointing out that said issue was already going on before the news broke.

1)
Says who? You? There is literally no correlation other than your personal opinion.
Most people don't actually care. They either buy them or not.

2)
'Extra effort'? This is the bare minimum people actually do even at the +15 range. There literally wasn't a single HC Denathrius group that didn't background check you until like 5-6 months into the patch because (shocker) people don't like wiping for 2-3 hours.
It's clear to me you only do LFR at this point.

3)
People get kicked all the time for being horrible.
Boosted people rarely make it thru the LFG system in the first place.

4)
This isn't a single player RPG.
Nobody actually cares about your Curves or CE's when they can see you were boosted. You would be aiming for the respect of people who actually did those things legit and you will just never get it.

It's clear that you only care about surface level achievements yourself based on this.
You being lazy to actually check someone does not mean the majority is like you.

5)
Ofc they wouldn't because mythic raiders don't give two shits about them.
Neither does anyone else.
Buying boosts gives you literally no equal standing compared to people who did X legit.
You being 2k pvp rated does not mean 2k rated players won't laugh at you while you are being destroyed.

Try to look beyond the surface when you have the actual tools to do so. It helps.
Save me from the 'bUt i WonT uSE 3rD paRTy SitES' bs in advance, thank you. People who take this game seriously do.

[Lady Atia]

why?
there was 1 booster in 2010 and 11111 in 2021
why would anyone want to play in this environment?

Please tell me where the evil evil boosties have hurt you. Honestly, grow up - having people buy their achievments is nothing new and shouldn't have any meaning on your fun within your game. But I guess you are also one of the people who use an ugly mount/transmog/title just because it's "rare" and you need your validation haha.

[Drusin]

Hmm, well my earliest memory of run selling is Wrath ICC GDKPs so from my experience it has been acceptable for the last 12 years

[Cosmic Janitor]

Dont think its connected to tokens in any way. Have u been in TBC classic? LFG and trade is just full of spam about boosts LOL

Nah I don't play that, I can only talk about the life game. I just remember we just to scoff at people buying boosts in the distant past and today many I know are honestly contemplating it.

[Lady Atia]

Hmm, well my earliest memory of run selling is Wrath ICC GDKPs so from my experience it has been acceptable for the last 12 years

Ewww, these runs were even worse than any current boosting system. Almost as bad as selling trivial stuff like Torghast or Glory runs.

[ClassicPeon]

why?
there was 1 booster in 2010 and 11111 in 2021
why would anyone want to play in this environment?

Why would you think lying like that makes for a compelling argument?

[Cosmic Janitor]

This is exactly why I simply think the whole 'X deserves gear' thing is a sham. It's just cover for the marketing of gear sales. That's the only reason the people who play all the time don't want casuals to have gear available easily. They would much rather SELL that gear to them.

Nah, most of them don't have that much mercantile spirit, the reality is way simpler, downright banale: I boosts their ego, gives them a sense of superiority. That is all there is to it for the overwhelming majority.

[Caerrona]

Boosts in Classic / TBC are about leveling in dungeons.
The situation is different because people need to play the game in order to acquire the gold as the WoW Token does not exist in Classic TBC.

If people had to play the game in order to acquire the gold for a boost, that's fair and has always been allowed under the ToS, but since the existence of the WoW Token, people can acquire loads of gold by purchasing the WoW Token.

And the wow token is allowed under the tos.

[Trbn]

Please tell me where the evil evil boosties have hurt you. Honestly, grow up - having people buy their achievments is nothing new and shouldn't have any meaning on your fun within your game. But I guess you are also one of the people who use an ugly mount/transmog/title just because it's "rare" and you need your validation haha.

you are either idiot or stupid. you can't even understand what's the problem but I'll try to explain

I want to play with humans not with dealers and afk buyers.

though it's fun that you feel ok to decide what should have affect my fun

Why would you think lying like that makes for a compelling argument?

lying?
so you want to argue that number of boosters gone up from that times?)))
or you want to argue about digits?
kekw you are pathetic

[ClassicPeon]

I think it's pretty obvious from the screenshots of the OP that prevalence of boosting is the issue, not that boosting *exists*.
After all, those screenshots show a multitude of boosting ads, to point out how prominent it has become, not just a single one to prove its existence.

Let's not forget, the person you initially quoted also didn't say: I solely quit because boosting exists.
You also blatantly assumed that the prominence of boosting is irrelevant for their decision to quit, just their existence.
Despite the topic itself putting a spotlight on its prominence, not the existence itself.

I wasnt writing at the OP.

By prevalence do you mean visibility? They arent synonyms you know. If you dont - then you are underestimating how much boosting has always been going on.

Lets also not forget the thing we learned a few posts ago about not assuming what other people meant. I havent written anything about the "sole reason someone quits". I simply responded to their reasoning.

I didnt assume anything - i responded to what was presented.

- - - Updated - - -

bullshit
while boost sales exist pre-token, it was nowhere as rampant as now, since gold back then was just gold, u can't convert gold to actual dollar value since it was just virtual currency
top raiders need gold just for repair bills and consumables, and they are easily obtainable with just 1 day of dailies and done, in my time in top server raiding guild, we did only 1 boost and for fun after a lot of buzzing from a guildmate who was a goblin gold hoarder, just 1 boost in entire wrath era, and was during the boring ToC tier
anyone who claims that boost pre-token is same as post token is delusional, guilds rarely gave a fuck to boost anyone pre-token since it was waste of time (who the fuck need gold, and for what? a single mount? yeah back then also mounts didn't cost 3 million)


because now the norm to pug anything ppl expect u to have ahead of curve and higher ilvl than whatever it drops, forcing u to either create ur own pug - and ppl who have mentality to lead pugs are busy leading guilds in first place - or gave up on trying to catch up to raid scene or buy tokens to get gold to buy boost to be able to start raid for current tier, assume u don't take break and drop from next tier race, sorry next 'season' since we are now mmo diablo

Literally boosted people 3 times a week in wrath.

Just because your casual normal guild didnt see/do it doesnt mean it wasnt going on