Is your guild losing raiders too?

[VinceVega]

No, our roster actually grew quite a bit in the last week or so. We've got 3x 25 man groups going right now. But a lot of it is going to depend on what your server is like. If you're on a lower pop server it's going to be rough, especially if it's one of the servers people are transferring off of for PvP reasons or whatever.



In your guild? Sure. Level 70 players? Not even close. Those of us that rushed to 70 and got geared quick are an extreme minority.



If you go by the forum / reddit consensus every version of WoW is worse than the last version. :P

I don't think getting to 70 in 2 weeks is rushed tbh... it has been 2 months. Kara is... for lacking a better word: Pisseasy. And it drops 2 pieces each boss. For 10 players. I don't even see many people on max level running around that are not at least 3/4 kara equipped at LEAST

[Malania]

Hah. wait till you see T6 content gated behind T5 attunements. Then you'll know poaching. I remember a guild I was in during TBC got sent back from T5 back to T4 because some of the guilds poached like 7-8 raiders and we struggled with re-clearing Gruul's Lair after that. Had to regear most of the new recruits (absorbed another guild to do it). Set us back a month or 2 to get back to where we were in SSC and TK. I was f***'ing livid at the time lol.

[Delever]

Of course it is. And it's silly to post otherwise here. I have noticed a steep drop off in FFXIV in the last 1-2 months; this happens with every MMO during the Summer months.

I love both games but WoW players have basically turned FF into some sort of fad after the SL let down. I don't suspect that most will stay there for long.

This is the biggest lie in the universe. I ve been playing throughout the entirety of Shadowbringers and the last 2 months were the only times I had to sit through 600+ people queues after the release of the game at peak hours.
Every other reason mentioned in here for people leaving is valid. "Summer time" has never affected gamers from gaming (maybe game less sure but not right out quit) and its a pretty hard dose of copium to be sipping.

[vindicatorx]

we have to keep turning people away to be honest. My server has had a major influx of people from lower population realms transferring to it.

[RoKPaNda]

I don't think getting to 70 in 2 weeks is rushed tbh... it has been 2 months. Kara is... for lacking a better word: Pisseasy. And it drops 2 pieces each boss. For 10 players. I don't even see many people on max level running around that are not at least 3/4 kara equipped at LEAST

For the average player 2 weeks is rushed. I'm on the highest pop horde server there is in my region and I'm not seeing anything like what you're describing. In Org and in Shattrath I'm seeing quite a few people like myself with a lot of Kara gear but most people that I see are still using blues or even 60 raid gear. If you're in full Kara gear you're way ahead of the curve still. I understand that watching streamers who no lifed the game from the start or using your own guild as a reference can make it look very skewed but the average player isn't SSC attuned yet, isn't done with Kara yet, hasn't killed Mag yet, etc. and isn't anywhere near done with P1 content.

Same thing with retail, you'll often hear people talk about how anyone decent is done with Mythic a few weeks after the world first clear but the reality is that only 6~ percent us are even running Mythic.

[Apanonar]

I just quit myself. Failing to kill Magtheridon after 2 hours last ID (after we had already killed it multiple times) made me realize I'm not willing to spend so much time of my week raiding, especially when you add T5 to the schedule

[Saiteck]

People come and go from WoW all the time, has been like that since forever. This is nothing new.

[Kralljin]

Hah. wait till you see T6 content gated behind T5 attunements. Then you'll know poaching.

Look, the OP talks about the issue of attunements in T4, where only Karazhan involves an Attunement.

You can't tell me with a straight face that anyone got filtered by the Karazhan attunement, even the Onyxia attunement (for both factions) is more tedious than the Karazhan one, which is effectively to complete two quests in front of Karazhan and run four dungeons.

Second, i strongly doubt anyone remotely serious about raiding will get filtered by T5 or T6 Attunements this time around.

You just have so much more time due to timegated nature, you are not stuck in this perpuate state of progression the vast majority of players were in for almost the enterity of TBC.
Even now, T5 is still like a month off, as long as you didn't completely slack on getting revered with those heroic factions, you can complete both attunements in a single weekend.
The Cipher of damnation questchain takes about an afternoon, then it's doing four heroics and killing Mag, boom, you're attuned for TK.
And any remotely serious raider is already attuned for SSC at this point or can complete it in a single week of raiding, because all you have to do is to walk into SP HC, accept a quest, kill Nightbane and Gruul and you're attuned for SSC as well.

After that, you probably have another 3-4 months until you have to attune yourself for MH / BT.
BT is again a single questchain in SMV, where the remaining steps afterwards can just be completed by clearing T5 content and MH attunement is killing Vashj and Kael'thas.

People will have Alts that are attuned, if someone new joins, they can join a pug to complete the steps that involve raiding, no need to put raid time aside for attuning people.


The classic community "attuned itself" every week for almost two years with world buffs, those attunements will not be a massive hurdle for anyone who isn't on the verge of quitting.

[Malania]

Look, the OP talks about the issue of attunements in T4, where only Karazhan involves an Attunement.

You can't tell me with a straight face that anyone got filtered by the Karazhan attunement, even the Onyxia attunement (for both factions) is more tedious than the Karazhan one, which is effectively to complete two quests in front of Karazhan and run four dungeons.

Second, i strongly doubt anyone remotely serious about raiding will get filtered by T5 or T6 Attunements this time around.

You just have so much more time due to timegated nature, you are not stuck in this perpuate state of progression the vast majority of players were in for almost the enterity of TBC.
Even now, T5 is still like a month off, as long as you didn't completely slack on getting revered with those heroic factions, you can complete both attunements in a single weekend.
The Cipher of damnation questchain takes about an afternoon, then it's doing four heroics and killing Mag, boom, you're attuned for TK.
And any remotely serious raider is already attuned for SSC at this point or can complete it in a single week of raiding, because all you have to do is to walk into SP HC, accept a quest, kill Nightbane and Gruul and you're attuned for SSC as well.

After that, you probably have another 3-4 months until you have to attune yourself for MH / BT.
BT is again a single questchain in SMV, where the remaining steps afterwards can just be completed by clearing T5 content and MH attunement is killing Vashj and Kael'thas.

People will have Alts that are attuned, if someone new joins, they can join a pug to complete the steps that involve raiding, no need to put raid time aside for attuning people.


The classic community "attuned itself" every week for almost two years with world buffs, those attunements will not be a massive hurdle for anyone who isn't on the verge of quitting.

Why do you assume this? Not everyone joins a guild capable of clearing all the content. T6 had requirements to access of killing Kael and Vashj. Unlike today where you could move onto the next tier without finishing the last, that wasn't the case then. Vashj and Kael weren't the simplest of encounters. Not may people had alts capable of switching on the fly as it required clearing old content again to get them in as well. A waste of time.

And generally the only guilds who pugged Kael and Vashj were ones who had done her already. Since it's 25 man content it would be like pugging Mythic Sire Denathrius. Not impossible but you'd bring people who'd done it before from other guilds.

[Master Factician]

The turnover rate after 6 months of Naxx wasn't even as bad as what we're experiencing now; we've lost 4 people this week alone. One person left for a better guild and the other 3 just straight up quit due to boredom.

[Morgaith]

If anything our recruitment is going up but that could be to other guilds falling apart. So far this expansion hasn't really done much and with the looming 8-9-10+(?) month tier i can't really blame people for getting fed up though.

[Kralljin]

Why do you assume this? Not everyone joins a guild capable of clearing all the content. T6 had requirements to access of killing Kael and Vashj. Unlike today where you could move onto the next tier without finishing the last, that wasn't the case then. Vashj and Kael weren't the simplest of encounters. Not may people had alts capable of switching on the fly as it required clearing old content again to get them in as well. A waste of time.

Because you will likely have 3-4 months to kill Kael'thas and Vashj before T6 comes out.

If you're in a guild that in this timeframe struggles to kill Kael'thas or Vashj, i doubt you could even successfully poach anyone from another guild because you are pretty damn on low on the pole.

And generally the only guilds who pugged Kael and Vashj were ones who had done her already. Since it's 25 man content it would be like pugging Mythic Sire Denathrius. Not impossible but you'd bring people who'd done it before from other guilds.

Kael'thas and Vashj aren't a modern day Mythic Boss encounter, not even close.

[Malania]

Because you will likely have 3-4 months to kill Kael'thas and Vashj before T6 comes out.

If you're in a guild that in this timeframe struggles to kill Kael'thas or Vashj, i doubt you could even successfully poach anyone from another guild because you are pretty damn on low on the pole.

Hence my poaching comment was aimed at the T6 guilds as it was back in TBC when you'd take players from guilds who'd killed Kael and Vashj so you didn't need to redo them.

Kael'thas and Vashj aren't a modern day Mythic Boss encounter, not even close.

No they aren't but the comparison was in the tier difference, not difficulty. The point if you were doing a previous tier boss end boss, you'd bring players who'd done them so you didn't have to train everyone on where to go for Kael, what to do with Gravity Lapse, what to do with Vashj's orbs, where to stand on her platform to avoid adds and fen striders etc. If you were doing Mythic Denathrius as the previous tier you'd bring people with experience on him.

[Kralljin]

Hence my poaching comment was aimed at the T6 guilds as it was back in TBC when you'd take players from guilds who'd killed Kael and Vashj so you didn't need to redo them.

Considering you said

Hah. wait till you see T6 content gated behind T5 attunements. Then you'll know poaching.

You are uttering a warning, i explained that this is unwarranted, because the circumstances are different now than they were in original TBC.

No they aren't but the comparison was in the tier difference, not difficulty.

And the point remains that those bosses will not be a huge hurdle for months to most guilds.

[Malania]

Considering you said

You are uttering a warning, i explained that this is unwarranted, because the circumstances are different now than they were in original TBC.

And the point remains that those bosses will not be a huge hurdle for months to most guilds.

Agree to disagree on both points?

[Kralljin]

Agree to disagree on both points?

Why are you asking me whether you agree or disagree with those statements?

[Malania]

Why are you asking me whether you agree or disagree with those statements?

I'm stating that we'll have to agree to disagree to the points. You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you and no-ones budging on this. It's become redundant to continue.

[Deferionus]

Three weeks ago we had almost three full Karazhan groups clearing in my guild. We only needed 4 healers to complete the raid groups and would have looking to build a 4th team. Today I had to pug people for my group 1 to round it out. Only about 5 people have gquit in that time, and before the last couple weeks I could recruit as fast as people left. Now people aren't logging in and we have not got a new recruit in two weeks.

[Warrax]

Well current content is very limited with 3-4 hours per week done in a single day...I enjoy raid logging for now but I can't wait for T5 content.
Also it's summer, people are sick of covid restrictions, etc

[Grimreaper]

I don't think getting to 70 in 2 weeks is rushed tbh... it has been 2 months. Kara is... for lacking a better word: Pisseasy. And it drops 2 pieces each boss. For 10 players. I don't even see many people on max level running around that are not at least 3/4 kara equipped at LEAST

I got 4 Kara clears, 0 pieces of loot for main-spec, 3 pieces for off-spec. Seen around 12 items get diss-enchanted.