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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    2 weeks, so the game still has that new car smell for you. Hope you continue to enjoy it but your still too new to see the problems that exist, same way we look at new WOW players and know they still don't understand the end game treadmill and its problems.
    Yea i bet all of this ''refugees'' that say FF14 is way better will play the game half as much as they did wow i doubt they will find it to be still that awesome in the end.

  2. #362
    I don't notice the graphics being bad. I'd take any ARR zone over Maldraxxus or the Maw. I also think the character models look better than WoW.

    Unfortunately, I can't argue with anyone who says ARR doesn't feel like anything special. I didn't care for the story (though it does get exponentially better later) and, as far as ability acquisition, job choice makes a big difference.

    I've leveled each starter job to at least 30. Slowest (IMO) were thaumaturge/black mage, lancer/dragoon, and conjurer/white mage (level 40 and still only 2 DPS abilities). Archer/bard is also on the slower side, but not as bad as the others because it's mobile and you get a spammable AoE significantly earlier than the other DPS. Pugilist/monk is somewhere in the middle. Arcanist/summoner & rogue/ninja seemed to give the most abilities the earliest. Someone can fact check that, it's just based on my memories of playing each job. I haven't done much with the tanks. I don't remember marauder/warrior getting much by level 30, my gladiator/paladin is 40 and seems to have a decent amount of buttons to click.

    I've seen people say that a lot of abilities have gotten pruned that were ones you used to get at lower levels and that's why it feels bad now. I get that for story reasons whittling down the ARR MSQ is complicated (ongoing debate on the entire 'wine & cheese' arc being pointless), but it seems like they could at least spread out ability acquisition better.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  3. #363
    Just downloaded the free trail. Really not my kind of game. Did not like anything.

  4. #364
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I'd take any ARR zone over Maldraxxus or the Maw.
    Maldraxxus and the Maw aren't my favorite WoW zones, but on the whole can one really say that the average quality of a FFXIV zone (this is one of the best ones IMO, or Ruby Sea or the Peaks or the Tempest) looks better than the average quality of a WoW zone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I also think the character models look better than WoW.
    Hm... I think they're overall the same quality, IMO. Though FFXIV as a game wins out due to its better facial animation and articulation of its character models, making them ripe for close up shots in cutscenes, whereas it seems that WoW's character models might not be rigged to do that, so they look rather silly when emoting in close ups in in-engine cutscenes. WoW characters have more face variety than FFXIV characters, though.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Maldraxxus and the Maw aren't my favorite WoW zones, but on the whole can one really say that the average quality of a FFXIV zone (this is one of the best ones IMO, or Ruby Sea or the Peaks or the Tempest) looks better than the average quality of a WoW zone?
    Well, that's part of the problem, even if it can be argued that they're objectively graphically superior, WoW zones are often thematically mediocre (all of BfA) if not outright hideous (Maldraxxus). I'll take a pretty zone with lesser quality over an ugly zone with higher quality. I think Gridania looks better than Ardenweald, frankly. Bastion and Revendreth were the only two zones I liked.

    Hm... I think they're overall the same quality, IMO. Though FFXIV as a game wins out due to its better facial animation and articulation of its character models, making them ripe for close up shots in cutscenes, whereas it seems that WoW's character models might not be rigged to do that, so they look rather silly when emoting in close ups in in-engine cutscenes. WoW characters have more face variety than FFXIV characters, though.
    My WoW character expressions are beyond cartoony and well into the caricature range. I have actually cringed at some of the faces they make. Different lighting also makes the faces look substantially different. There was a point in SL I swore my paladin's face was bugging out in game because she looked nothing like she does in the character select screen.

    FFXIV definitely needs more than 4 face options and usually only one of them is a 'good' face. There was a reddit post asking about most commonly used features and a lot of people said female Miqo'te face #3, Au Ra face #1, and Viera face #1, because those are generally the best looking faces for those race/genders.

    WoW gives the illusion of variety though. Most of the faces post remodel are exactly the same with varying makeup/fur patterns or you have a case like the NEs where all but a couple of the female faces are in a state of perma-smile, so if you don't want that your choices are extremely limited.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Well, it should lol.
    No one actually thinks that it's good to "punish" the raid group by letting them walk to the boss-room again for 5 minutes and prepare for the next pull, while flasks are running etc. etc.
    You are just making up shit if you want to tell me otherwise, just to have an argument with someone on the internet.

    Don't be silly.

    Next, you are telling me that they should remove mass-rez.
    So what's the point of wiping then.

    Hell if you're constantly getting a Mythic Boss to 10% you should get to start at 20%, I mean Phase 3 is where you wipe anyway right?

    Actually you know what, bosses should just keel over and die when you have the required players and ilvl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post

    Also this idea that not having trash in Trials somehow means it doesn't matter and isn't impactful. Yes I'm sure spending 20/30 minutes on trash leading up to...Painsmith somehow makes that fight way more impactful..
    It's part of the difficulty so yeah.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    So what's the point of wiping then.

    Hell if you're constantly getting a Mythic Boss to 10% you should get to start at 20%, I mean Phase 3 is where you wipe anyway right?

    Actually you know what, bosses should just keel over and die when you have the required players and ilvl.
    Except wiping and starting over doesn't put you at the end of the fight, does it?

    So what's acceptable, a timer preventing you from pulling the boss for 20 seconds? 1 minute? 5 minutes? How isn't this just completely arbitrary and meaningless? It's not like guilds use rezzes and things to rez in the boss room to start a pull as quickly as possible in WoW.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    So what's the point of wiping then.

    Hell if you're constantly getting a Mythic Boss to 10% you should get to start at 20%, I mean Phase 3 is where you wipe anyway right?

    Actually you know what, bosses should just keel over and die when you have the required players and ilvl.

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    It's part of the difficulty so yeah.
    3/10.
    You really gotta try a bit harder with the bait.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I snipped out your raid size bits, but know that I'm largely in agreement. I prefer smaller sized raiding as well.

    But this example you tried to paint is comically bad. You can't compare these sample sizes at all. You should be comparing Nathria, which I've already done in another thread and the balance really isn't that far off (especially when you account for outliers (the 2 dead specs, and the one stupidly overtuned one) and the fact that FF14 has incredibly simplistic tuning knobs and WoW's are at the very least 3x more complex).



    Can you find a single person who stated that Asmon is the reason for the large playerbase? I haven't seen a single person state that. I have seen people say he's responsible for the RECENT spike, of which he is a large piece of that no doubt.
    WoW tuning being so complex due to multiplicative systems is part of why people are turned off. At least in FF14 your damage is mostly based on your skill rather than "I rolled the slot machine and got a corruption, azerite power, and trinket proc during my cooldown".

  10. #370
    Ffxiv is what WoW used to be, a social theme park people played for fun.

  11. #371
    While not better than WoW, FF it is still good enough overall if you want to take a break and get a new experience.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestNoob View Post
    Except wiping and starting over doesn't put you at the end of the fight, does it?

    So what's acceptable, a timer preventing you from pulling the boss for 20 seconds? 1 minute? 5 minutes? How isn't this just completely arbitrary and meaningless? It's not like guilds use rezzes and things to rez in the boss room to start a pull as quickly as possible in WoW.
    Nah man I'm fully dedicated to how you FF14 players want to do things. Fight lasts 20 minutes and you're wiping at the 15th minute?

    You don't start at Minute 1, you go straight up to the 13th minute. I mean why waste time on the rest of the fight, right? You're busy, you have kids and stuff.

    You should also start with maxed out gear.

    Or, you know, we admit that wipes ARE meant to punish you and stop with this stupid nonsense.

    FF14 raiding sounds like the most casual Mythic raiding possible.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Nah man I'm fully dedicated to how you FF14 players want to do things. Fight lasts 20 minutes and you're wiping at the 15th minute?

    You don't start at Minute 1, you go straight up to the 13th minute. I mean why waste time on the rest of the fight, right? You're busy, you have kids and stuff.

    You should also start with maxed out gear.

    Or, you know, we admit that wipes ARE meant to punish you and stop with this stupid nonsense.

    FF14 raiding sounds like the most casual Mythic raiding possible.
    Yes, wipes punish you...by making you do the fight again.

    "We also have to auto-run for a couple minutes!" isn't part of the fight. It's just silly. There's no reason for it, no real defense of it. This is just an example of you preferring one game and therefore defending anything about it and attacking what other games might do.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Nah man I'm fully dedicated to how you FF14 players want to do things. Fight lasts 20 minutes and you're wiping at the 15th minute?

    You don't start at Minute 1, you go straight up to the 13th minute. I mean why waste time on the rest of the fight, right? You're busy, you have kids and stuff.

    You should also start with maxed out gear.

    Or, you know, we admit that wipes ARE meant to punish you and stop with this stupid nonsense.

    FF14 raiding sounds like the most casual Mythic raiding possible.
    Nah, what we want is every time you wipe everyone has to go take a shower before you can pull the boss again.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Except they're not meant to punish you, they ARE the punishment. You have to start the boss all over. It is already a punishment to have wiped.

    Running back after a wipe is what you claim to be so necessary. Which is both unnecessary (even WoW often skips this now by putting checkpoints), and a waste of everyone's time. You've already been punished by having to re-do the entire boss fight. Why add even more unnecessary "punishment"?
    Indeed, even WoW (And other games) are fully aware that the run back isn't part of the fight. Isn't fun, isn't engaging, isn't anything but a largely unintended side effect of large raid areas.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Nah man I'm fully dedicated to how you FF14 players want to do things. Fight lasts 20 minutes and you're wiping at the 15th minute?

    You don't start at Minute 1, you go straight up to the 13th minute. I mean why waste time on the rest of the fight, right? You're busy, you have kids and stuff.

    You should also start with maxed out gear.

    Or, you know, we admit that wipes ARE meant to punish you and stop with this stupid nonsense.

    FF14 raiding sounds like the most casual Mythic raiding possible.
    I have never seen people say they want to start with maxed out gear. Also, wiping and then having to spend several minutes just running to the boss is a waste of time and adds NOTHING to the raid.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Ffxiv is what WoW used to be...
    Yes, a minor upgrade from EverQuest. WoW has massively improved and grown since then. FFXIV still feels like a 2005 game. It's UI is horrible and not very customizable. "Oh, you can customize so much of it!", some d-bag will say. No, you can't. You can move some stuff around on the screen. It's about as customizable as SWTOR. EverQuest, actually, was more customizable than FFXIV. And it's clunky and laggy. "Oh, its not lag, you just have to get used to it!", some d-nozzle will say. No, if things don't happen in a timely manner when pressed, it's laggy. Whether that lag is network, game code, animation lock, or anything else, there is a lag between pressing the button and the execution of the action. That' f'n lag. Some people like FFXIV, that's fine, some people like enemas, too. I'm just not one of those people.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Chumahki View Post
    Yes, a minor upgrade from EverQuest. WoW has massively improved and grown since then. FFXIV still feels like a 2005 game. It's UI is horrible and not very customizable. "Oh, you can customize so much of it!", some d-bag will say. No, you can't. You can move some stuff around on the screen. It's about as customizable as SWTOR. EverQuest, actually, was more customizable than FFXIV. And it's clunky and laggy. "Oh, its not lag, you just have to get used to it!", some d-nozzle will say. No, if things don't happen in a timely manner when pressed, it's laggy. Whether that lag is network, game code, animation lock, or anything else, there is a lag between pressing the button and the execution of the action. That' f'n lag. Some people like FFXIV, that's fine, some people like enemas, too. I'm just not one of those people.
    I have to ask wth you think customization is then, because you can literally change the bars from a 1x12 to 2x6, 3x4, 4x3, 6x2, and 12x1 layout. You can actively turn whichever bar you want on or off, modify the size of each bar, move them wherever you want, turn the chat window completely off as well as the map, make collapsible hotbars, and arrange them however you want. Literally everything can be adjusted. What exactly is customization to you?
    Last edited by Yzak; 2021-08-06 at 02:47 AM.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    It's part of the difficulty so yeah.
    Except it's not difficult in the slightest.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    So what's the point of wiping then.

    Hell if you're constantly getting a Mythic Boss to 10% you should get to start at 20%, I mean Phase 3 is where you wipe anyway right?

    Actually you know what, bosses should just keel over and die when you have the required players and ilvl.

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    It's part of the difficulty so yeah.


    man... it's so obvious that you never raided yourself..
    If I'd show this to every-single-one of the guys/girls who I raided with, everyone would laugh at you.
    Running to a boss after a whipe has nothing to do with the encounter itself.
    Mythic Raiders don't have to run with less movement speed than normal raiders, just to reach the boss again.
    It's not part of the difficulty, trash is also not part of the difficulty.

    You can clear Mythic trash on the same day you clear Normal difficulty trash

    Just accept that you made a very silly comment and actually didn't know what you were talking about when you said "FFXIV raids are bad because they don't have anything to it and no trash"
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-08-06 at 03:11 AM.

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