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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Maybe? I found the whole thing very confusing and didn't really go into it last time I played.
    Deposit the transmog piece into the glamour dresser. Make a plate. Use it in town.

    It's not rocket science. The whole thing with the crystals is only for if you want to remove the transmog on a single item or if you want to just change a single item that is not part of your plate.

    Sure, the collections in WoW are more convenient to navigate, but people saying it is insanely better are exaggerating. It's the void storage and tool to make 12 sets. Not difficult. End result is the same.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Maldraxxus and the Maw aren't my favorite WoW zones, but on the whole can one really say that the average quality of a FFXIV zone (this is one of the best ones IMO, or Ruby Sea or the Peaks or the Tempest) looks better than the average quality of a WoW zone?


    - - - Updated - - -
    I'm 100% unimpressed with WoW zones... even Bastion is "meh" to me. When it has this weird weather-thingy going on, it looks quite pleasant, but that's not the general outlook you have while exploring in WoW
    I'd say it's very subjective, I find the FF zones way more entertaining.
    I made a lot of screenshots playing through it back then.
    Didn't even think about doing that in WoW.

    The buildings are way better done in FFXIV than in WoW for example. And that adds *a lot*
    The scale is just very different and in WoW, it's just less awe-inspiring.
    I think WoW has better stuff to look at in dungeons and raids than it has in zones.

    The problem in FFXIV is more with the "barriers" that appear in front of some locations so you can't visit them and see it's just a facade.
    Visually however, that doesn't make a difference.

    When you see the big chunky walls of Ishgard in the distance and start running around in that city, seeing the defenses and the huge buildings and the additional layers you (sadly) can't visit.
    When you see Titania's castle and the glowy wings forming out of it.
    When you see Limsa in the background
    When you are getting closer to the tower
    When you visit Ala Mhigo and see the gigantic walls.
    When you see Douma castle and the gate


    Pretty memorable stuff.
    It's no coincidence that I remember that and basically nothing in WoW outside of raids and dungeons, even though I play WoW 2-3 times more on average than FFXIV, as I'm basically just a "raid-log-in"-player in FFXIV and the jobs I play all have the savage weapons/gear I need so I don't even have an active subscription right now.
    It's not like I "re-visit" these places all the time either, neither do I do that stuff in WoW.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-08-06 at 03:30 AM.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    Except it's not difficult in the slightest.
    If it's intelligently designed and engaging, then it can be.

    WoW has certain items that can only be obtained from trash enemies, too - which is in itself another potential avenue to serve as an incentive.

    Karazhan and Sunwell Plataeu had a lot of flavoursome trash enemies to fight through, which heavily contributed to making them more memorable. In the case of the former raid, there's even optional bosses and the choice of doing some in varying orders each weekly clear.

    So, yeah, I think there are definitely ways in which FFXIV's raids can be made more interesting, engaging and difficult.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    I am playing it right now. For me WOW is way better but am just bored of it. To each their own.
    Maybe the end game content and raids are better but i don't care about that stuff that much anymore. I am mostly talking about the way the world, combat, quests and some other stuff feels.
    Here is the problem. You played WoW for too long. You instinctively reject anything that doesn't work exactly like WoW.

    This is a problem many of us have adapting to FF. It takes time. You are too used to the way WoW plays. This is not WoW. You do not rush to end game. The journey matters here and is the meat of the experience. The end-game is not a daily grind that will give you a chore everyday. It is something you can end in 6 weeks (depending on your group and not including ultimates). End-game in FF is everything. It is not one single thing. It is professions, it's PvP, it's fishing, it's triple triad, it's chocobo racing, it's eureka, it's bozja, it's leveling your trust, It's roulettes, It's ishgard restoration, it's housing, etc.
    This is not WoW. The game is not designed to chore you up to having to log in everyday in an endless power grind and do some horribly boring and unrewarding piece of content. FF tells you to go an do whatever you find fun... or don't. Taking a break and just coming back for the next story patch is also fine. The game is not an addiction. It's a passion.
    If you don't get used to what this game is doing, you will not enjoy it and that is completely on you.

    Sure, maybe you honestly don't like it. But, unless the art style just simply isn't your thing or you truly don't care about story (and therefore this is not the game for you), i don't know how anyone can think the game isn't good.

    I will use a few examples like: "oh no, it doesn't auto dismount me when i want to attack a mob". Who said this was a requirement? The game doesn't have mounted combat (who knows in the future) so it makes perfect sense to get out of your mount before you can attack. You just got used to it being that way. Nowhere was it decided it must work that way.

    Also: "oh no the questing is not nearly as good as WoW. It's all looting 3 things or killing 3 mobs". Sure, but WoW's questing is based on gameplay, not story. You get some cinematic after you clear a zone. That is dozens and dozens of quests. Many way more boring that rather than 3 objectives require you to do 10, 15, etc. It's padding out the length of the experience.
    FF doesn't work like that. FF questing is just a bit of a break and context to the story being told. They are the break between your story. They are there to make you travel the world. They do not need to be super creative, they need to be non-intrusive.
    Sure, more variety wouldn't hurt, but these quests aren't the meat of the experience, the story is.

    Different games that do different things.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-08-06 at 10:23 AM.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    If it's intelligently designed and engaging, then it can be.
    Out of 17 years of raids, what trash is actually intelligently designed and engaging?

    Also having items that drop from trash is...just...I mean okay? You could also just put them on bosses and have them drop more items.

    In the case of the former raid, there's even optional bosses and the choice of doing some in varying orders each weekly clear.
    That was also 13 and 14 years ago and hasn't really been done since.

    I never said there wasn't any good trash. I said the claim that trash is somehow difficult is ridiculous and in the vast, vast majority of cases it's just a way to pad out time. Especially trash that respawns.

    We're also having two different conversations competing with one another now because FF14 raids DO have trash, people were originally speaking about the set of four, one boss fights that come out on odd patches.
    Last edited by Drindorai; 2021-08-06 at 03:33 AM.

  6. #386
    1: Game respects my time.
    2: Story stole my soul, help!

    Big shout out to #1, where I can play every class on the same character. So everything is basically "account wide" compared to WoW.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Chumahki View Post
    Yes, a minor upgrade from EverQuest. WoW has massively improved and grown since then. FFXIV still feels like a 2005 game. It's UI is horrible and not very customizable. "Oh, you can customize so much of it!", some d-bag will say. No, you can't. You can move some stuff around on the screen. It's about as customizable as SWTOR. EverQuest, actually, was more customizable than FFXIV. And it's clunky and laggy. "Oh, its not lag, you just have to get used to it!", some d-nozzle will say. No, if things don't happen in a timely manner when pressed, it's laggy. Whether that lag is network, game code, animation lock, or anything else, there is a lag between pressing the button and the execution of the action. That' f'n lag. Some people like FFXIV, that's fine, some people like enemas, too. I'm just not one of those people.
    Damn, way to completely ignore the point and read exactly what you want to read, opposed to what was said. You in the olympics?

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    Out of 17 years of raids, what trash is actually intelligently designed and engaging?

    Also having items that drop from trash is...just...I mean okay? You could also just put them on bosses and have them drop more items.
    If we're talking immersion, then there's just some things that other MMO's do better when it comes to raiding than what FFXIV brings to the table. I've long since stopped playing WoW, though I'll always have fond memories of how interesting some of the raids were in terms of exploration and depth.

    FFXIV's raids get old to me very quickly by comparison. There's no secret bosses. No secret rooms to explore. Each fight just takes place in a giant circular arena most of the time. They're very flashy looking, don't get me wrong, but it just lacks that extra special something that rounds them all out in a way I find appealing.

    The 24 man raids are a little better, but still run into many of the same problems.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    I have to ask wth you think customization is then, because you can literally change the bars from a 1x12 to 2x6, 3x4, 4x3, 6x2, and 12x1 layout. You can actively turn whichever bar you want on or off, modify the size of each bar, move them wherever you want, turn the chat window completely off as well as the map, make collapsible hotbars, and arrange them however you want. Literally everything can be adjusted. What exactly is customization to you?
    Truly a good point. The majority of people's "customization" from their UI is downloading ELVui and moving things around how they want. Boss mods and DPS meters aren't UI customizations they're tools to play the game, and gather information. FFXIV has built in ELVui as their default, pretty big win over WoW's default UI imo.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    FFXIV's raids get old to me very quickly by comparison. There's no secret bosses. No secret rooms to explore. Each fight just takes place in a giant circular arena most of the time. They're very flashy looking, don't get me wrong, but it just lacks that extra special something that rounds them all out in a way I find appealing.
    FF14 clearly does this but the way they do is in the boss fight itself. When you have phase changes and something totally and wholly unexpected happens (Almost always tied in with the story---because the story is king in this game) and it blows your mind.

    Without spoiling stuff I think the Shiva Eden fight is one of the best MMORPG boss fights I've ever done from a visual, story, and music perspective. The stuff they do when they transition phases and what different parts of the fight means with the music is just phenomenal.

    I'll take that any day of the week rather than a 8 week long quest chain you have to grind out so that you can summon an undead Dragon in Karazhan. Whose story is unimpressive and kind of stretched out expecting you to hope for some big reveal and then it's just really nothing.

    I will also once again point out that stuff like this has not been in the game for a long time. I should be clear that my statement is not a judgment value on what the old stuff was. Nightbane was cool, at the time. Stuff like opening up a door into a hidden boss in Scarlet Monastery (Even though he did virtually nothing) was cool, at the time. But there were very few things to compare those to, at the time.

    Not only does WoW really not do this anymore but I think the manner in which FF14 employs a similar idea (Which is why people are almost always excited when savage and extreme fights come out) but does so in its fights and I enjoy them more. Or at least I remember them more fondly.
    Last edited by Drindorai; 2021-08-06 at 03:58 AM.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    FF14 clearly does this but the way they do is in the boss fight itself. When you have phase changes and something totally and wholly unexpected happens (Almost always tied in with the story---because the story is king in this game) and it blows your mind.

    Without spoiling stuff I think the Shiva Eden fight is one of the best MMORPG boss fights I've ever done from a visual, story, and music perspective. The stuff they do when they transition phases and what different parts of the fight means with the music is just phenomenal.

    I'll take that any day of the week rather than a 8 week long quest chain you have to grind out so that you can summon an undead Dragon in Karazhan. Whose story is unimpressive and kind of stretched out expecting you to hope for some big reveal and then it's just really nothing.

    I will also once again point out that stuff like this has not been in the game for a long time.
    This is true. If WoW could copy FFXIV's story design.. It'd be huge, to say the least.

  12. #392
    Stood in the Fire
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    Big fan of how classes are mostly consistent. I feel rewarded for memorizing my 20+ button openers. Nailing it took work to build into muscle memory and now it feels good just to do. Every single button.

    Where as in wow I feel like 18 of those buttons are waved away, dismissed as "artificial complexity" in favor of some hideously unsatisfying 4 button rotation that gets replaced with some other unsatisfying 4 button rotation every expansion and classes retain nothing.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastiel View Post
    Big fan of how classes are mostly consistent. I feel rewarded for memorizing my 20+ button openers. Nailing it took work to build into muscle memory and now it feels good just to do. Every single button.

    Where as in wow I feel like 18 of those buttons are waved away, dismissed as "artificial complexity" in favor of some hideously unsatisfying 4 button rotation that gets replaced with some other unsatisfying 4 button rotation every expansion and classes retain nothing.
    WoW keeps combat buttons comprehensible and keeps a number of utility buttons like Stampeding Roar, Demonic Gateway, Death Grip, crowd control both short (stuns, slowdowns, fears) and long, dispels and so on. In comparison, FFXIV just bloats DPS rotation (for melee 9-10 buttons are just combos that are always pressed in the same order). There is no space for some clutch buttons or intelligent gameplay in design, you're just going through motions every fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    I have to ask wth you think customization is then, because you can literally change the bars from a 1x12 to 2x6, 3x4, 4x3, 6x2, and 12x1 layout. You can actively turn whichever bar you want on or off, modify the size of each bar, move them wherever you want, turn the chat window completely off as well as the map, make collapsible hotbars, and arrange them however you want. Literally everything can be adjusted. What exactly is customization to you?
    Inventory, bank, auction house, maps, tooltips, character screen, chat, the list goes on. It's not just changing the size or the position, it's changing the look and behavior. Bars are just a tiny little bit of a ui. I hardly use actual bars on my screen, most things are weakauras. SWTOR was the same way: they said you could customize but they just meant move some things around. That's just not enough for me. I do not play with the default WoW UI. If WoW disabled addons I would immediately unsub because the default ui is horrid.

    And, yes, DBM and Recount are part of the UI. They are part of the user interface...I how interact with the game. Not even having a DPS meter is pretty ridiculous; you can't evaluate your own performance and it's more difficult to identify the dead weight holding you back. ElvUI is a great starting point, but there is a whole lot more to configure to get a truly workable UI, imo. I just could not get the FFXIV ui to work for me, it was just too limited and clunky.

    And, as a healer, I've used mouseover for decades. Mouseover does not work properly in FFXIV because it doesn't queue properly. So you either lose efficiency of have to click heal. Ahh, I miss 1999...

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    WoW keeps combat buttons comprehensible and keeps a number of utility buttons like Stampeding Roar, Demonic Gateway, Death Grip, crowd control both short (stuns, slowdowns, fears) and long, dispels and so on. In comparison, FFXIV just bloats DPS rotation (for melee 9-10 buttons are just combos that are always pressed in the same order). There is no space for some clutch buttons or intelligent gameplay in design, you're just going through motions every fight.
    I think somewhere between WoW and FFXIV would be great. WoW combat is way too easy and FFXIV combat way too hard.

  16. #396
    FF 14 is vastly superior to anything WoW has to offer except the PVP.

    FF 14 has better casual/intermediate and expert level content, the gold saucer alone absolutely blows away anything that WoW has to offer in minigames and collections.

    The Samurai class and rotation is probably the most satisfying thing i have ever played in a MMORPG.

    With Endwalker fast approaching it should put the final nail in the coffin for all but the most addict of WoW players or strict PVP players.

  17. #397
    The old content is not dead, there is no real reason to rush to the end. But the story drives you forward. Great design overal. The community is also really forgiving and to eventually enter the endgame content you have a smaller barrier than in WoW. I feel like I can take my time in FFXIV which is great, in WOW I always feel like there is someking of shopping list I have to check off, if I wanted to keep up.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    WoW keeps combat buttons comprehensible and keeps a number of utility buttons like Stampeding Roar, Demonic Gateway, Death Grip, crowd control both short (stuns, slowdowns, fears) and long, dispels and so on. In comparison, FFXIV just bloats DPS rotation (for melee 9-10 buttons are just combos that are always pressed in the same order). There is no space for some clutch buttons or intelligent gameplay in design, you're just going through motions every fight.
    It’s long because it needs to be to create a satisfying build up and release. It’s like a song. I like that once you master it, it’s rewarding to have a sense of mastery of it, which is something I felt was missing from WoW. I actually find rotations to be far more satisfying, though I’d prefer combat to be like 25% faster.

    I don’t disagree combat has room for improvement, but I don’t think long rotations is an area it really needs it. It’s serving a purpose.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    It’s long because it needs to be to create a satisfying build up and release. It’s like a song. I like that once you master it, it’s rewarding to have a sense of mastery of it, which is something I felt was missing from WoW. I actually find rotations to be far more satisfying, though I’d prefer combat to be like 25% faster.

    I don’t disagree combat has room for improvement, but I don’t think long rotations is an area it really needs it. It’s serving a purpose.
    Thankfully I can quote myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    This also leads to pushing the same set of buttons in the same order all the time. Design like this is better in some games like Osu or Dance Dance Revolution, but in MMORPG quickly causes boredom.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  20. #400
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james2400 View Post
    FF 14 is vastly superior to anything WoW has to offer except the PVP.

    FF 14 has better casual/intermediate and expert level content, the gold saucer alone absolutely blows away anything that WoW has to offer in minigames and collections.

    The Samurai class and rotation is probably the most satisfying thing i have ever played in a MMORPG.

    With Endwalker fast approaching it should put the final nail in the coffin for all but the most addict of WoW players or strict PVP players.
    People has different tastes, you know. Not every wow player who quits wow won't play FFXIV. Probably not even a majority of them.
    Hi

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