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  1. #401
    The sprout icon.

    Im three quests away from losing it and im already super sad. I am the worst whitemage in this game. If you dont believe me ask my poor co-healer who had to raise me 5 times in the Tsuyu fight because i didnt understand that nightfall is not a stack marker (to be fair, nor did the dps who kept blowing the hell up - or maybe no one understood its a line marker and were too busy dodging the fans... point is, i was in a terrible group and i definitely pulled my weight in making it terrible). I need that marker to fish for commendations... At the start of every dungeon i get to say 'first time here! Anything i should know?' knowing full well no one will say more than 'lets do this!' (i play on japanese servers)
    Then when i actually holy and assize trash mobs, everyone is mad impressed. If no one dies in the boss fights, with that little sprout on my head, i get showered with commendations, easy. Its so validating!

    If i make a character on a new server, it comes back, right? Theres an unofficial oceanic server in the JP data server, i have a THM at level 25 on it. I switched to my current server because... i dont know why? I think i just wanted to start again after getting my head around it. If i switch back to her, i can be a sprout again? Obviously i'll make her a healer... I love being a sprout. Everyone is so lovely to my massive screw ups.

    ETA: Im only half joking. Im going to miss my sprout icon. But we're all in this together in shadowbringers. But if i do get it back by switching servers... i might just have a second play through on my aura instead of leveling jobs on my current main.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-06 at 09:09 AM.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    Thankfully I can quote myself.
    Yeah... but that is true for the other variant as well.
    I'm less bored by my SAM rotation than I am with my MM/BM rotation.

    The order almost doesn't matter.
    It's when and how often you press them. When my fingers dance around the keyboard in FFXIV, it surely feels better than when I don't and only use 1-4/5 96% of the time.

    Fights where I don't need my interrupt/trap/roots in WoW are more boring than fights in FFXIV where I simply do my rotation and positionals. That's probably why I usually enjoy M+ more than Raids.

    At the same time, when I'm playing for 2 hours and chain try after try in FFXIV, my fingers start to hurt.

    Another thing that feels rewarding with FFXIV way of doing things.
    You can immediatly tell if you did something better than last time, and you don't even need a parser for that.
    That's kinda rewarding to feel/see when you progress on encounters.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-08-06 at 09:56 AM.

  3. #403
    The Lightbringer Archmage Alodi's Avatar
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    Started playing the game last night, walking through Limsa Lominsa and seeing all those people with cool armors screwing around (Someone was playing Bella Ciao with harp and people were dancing lol) reminded me of the first time I walked into Orgrimmar.
    THE HORDE WILL ENDURE , THE HORDE IS STRONG!

  4. #404
    So i... ugly cried. Ive never once felt more heroic in gaming than seeing my feet race past Hien. And it took me three attempts to kill those swords and not get one shot. But waking up and greeted by count dripula...

    Its a journey.

    The only other time i ever felt this was alexstraszas slow motion flappy wings (i didnt feel heroic, to be clear, but i felt... like a part of the universe - whoever made that cut scene should have been promoted to lead story dev on the spot.)

    It's insanely beautiful. (janky 2008 graphics and story integration aside - the point is the storyline).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch4rc5W4dKY
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-06 at 10:46 AM.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastiel View Post
    Big fan of how classes are mostly consistent. I feel rewarded for memorizing my 20+ button openers. Nailing it took work to build into muscle memory and now it feels good just to do. Every single button.

    Where as in wow I feel like 18 of those buttons are waved away, dismissed as "artificial complexity" in favor of some hideously unsatisfying 4 button rotation that gets replaced with some other unsatisfying 4 button rotation every expansion and classes retain nothing.
    Totally agree. I hear some entitled WoW fans coming here to say the combat is worse. Well, sure, WoW's is more responsive but it is also far more simplistic. Also, i gotta admit i like the flashy animations and my character doing super cool stuff.

    For example, look at Chi burst and compare to Enlightenment from the FF monk. They are both filling the same fantasy of the monk with a fireball (hadouken). But, look how Wimpy Chi burst is in comparison.

    Ah but back at the rotation... it's not only the rotation but the fights. They require reacting while doing those big rotations and pulling it off makes you feel like a badass. I love it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    The sprout icon.

    Im three quests away from losing it and im already super sad. I am the worst whitemage in this game. If you dont believe me ask my poor co-healer who had to raise me 5 times in the Tsuyu fight because i didnt understand that nightfall is not a stack marker (to be fair, nor did the dps who kept blowing the hell up - or maybe no one understood its a line marker and were too busy dodging the fans... point is, i was in a terrible group and i definitely pulled my weight in making it terrible). I need that marker to fish for commendations... At the start of every dungeon i get to say 'first time here! Anything i should know?' knowing full well no one will say more than 'lets do this!' (i play on japanese servers)
    Then when i actually holy and assize trash mobs, everyone is mad impressed. If no one dies in the boss fights, with that little sprout on my head, i get showered with commendations, easy. Its so validating!

    If i make a character on a new server, it comes back, right? Theres an unofficial oceanic server in the JP data server, i have a THM at level 25 on it. I switched to my current server because... i dont know why? I think i just wanted to start again after getting my head around it. If i switch back to her, i can be a sprout again? Obviously i'll make her a healer... I love being a sprout. Everyone is so lovely to my massive screw ups.

    ETA: Im only half joking. Im going to miss my sprout icon. But we're all in this together in shadowbringers. But if i do get it back by switching servers... i might just have a second play through on my aura instead of leveling jobs on my current main.
    Don't you worry. I have all jobs at 80 and i still feel like noob. The way people got to know these fights was doing them over and over again on artifact/progress or mount grinds. You will fail a lot, but eventually you will learn. Thankfully most of the community are pretty chill about it and try to help.

    That is what happens when they know that if they are toxic they run the risk of being reported and banned. Having consequences for being toxic is a great motivator for people to try and be nice instead.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-08-06 at 10:36 AM.

  6. #406
    One thing I like is no DBM type add-on that just tells you what to do. In WoW even if I decide to cripple myself by not having it, odds are pretty good most if not all in my party does so I still reap a lot of the benefits.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    One thing I like is no DBM type add-on that just tells you what to do. In WoW even if I decide to cripple myself by not having it, odds are pretty good most if not all in my party does so I still reap a lot of the benefits.
    Considering the game has a built in version its not much of a change, you traded DBM for the echo.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Totally agree. I hear some entitled WoW fans coming here to say the combat is worse. Well, sure, WoW's is more responsive but it is also far more simplistic. Also, i gotta admit i like the flashy animations and my character doing super cool stuff.

    For example, look at Chi burst and compare to Enlightenment from the FF monk. They are both filling the same fantasy of the monk with a fireball (hadouken). But, look how Wimpy Chi burst is in comparison.

    Ah but back at the rotation... it's not only the rotation but the fights. They require reacting while doing those big rotations and pulling it off makes you feel like a badass. I love it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Don't you worry. I have all jobs at 80 and i still feel like noob. The way people got to know these fights was doing them over and over again on artifact/progress or mount grinds. You will fail a lot, but eventually you will learn. Thankfully most of the community are pretty chill about it and try to help.

    That is what happens when they know that if they are toxic they run the risk of being reported and banned. Having consequences for being toxic is a great motivator for people to try and be nice instead.
    Im gonna just pretend everyone is nice because theyre nice. (counter me and im gonna plug my 4 ears and sing the gridania night time theme in my head).

    ETA: And a point of order, (since ive transitioned to english voice acting having watched asmon and rich stream the game for the past month - it DOES get better), Bunny girls have a canonically french accent. Im all in for shadowbringers.

    ETA2: Barely ten minutes in and im in the capital city (or at least what i think is the capital city). Im also given a rejoinder explaining the core concepts. Yeah, ive done it. But you can genuinely tell they wanted new players to figure this shit out quickly and jump right in (see also dancer). Thats pretty sweet... i mean, it wont work because of bloat and veterans wanting new shit for their class, but they tried to make it accessible for new players. I see you sqex. It literally beats the crap out of the miserable introduction for stormblood.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-06 at 03:42 PM.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Neither are true in my experience.
    Same here.

    Even then, within the MUCH more packed cities than all of Orgrimmar combined, you don't see <name>-<realm-name>.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    Considering the game has a built in version its not much of a change, you traded DBM for the echo.
    I guess I missed the timer bars letting me know everything coming up for the next 2 minutes.

    Or.. you just mad? Oh.. you mad..

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I guess I missed the timer bars letting me know everything coming up for the next 2 minutes.

    Or.. you just mad? Oh.. you mad..
    Yeah I'm mad about a game I started playing back when Heavensward came out, you caught me.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    Yeah I'm mad about a game I started playing back when Heavensward came out, you caught me.
    Defensive too..sorry I didn't play the game as long as you. High crime.

  13. #413
    i played ff14 about 2 years ago right until the heavensward expension.
    had a lot of fun after i learned to treat it like a single player rgp with some forced multiplayer bits inbetween. fell off the game, for no particular reason and havent gotten back into it...

    until this week. a friend of mine was fed up with wow after 15 years of uninterrupted subscription and he started ff14, so i started back as well. its funny to me, when he lists all the things he likes about ff14 and how he never knew the game would be this good. were currently having a blast leveling through ARR.

    only downside for me is the level requirements on certain classes. why cant i play dancer at lvl 15 or lvl 20? it feels weird having to "waste time" leveling a class i dont intend to play, just so i can play the class i want.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrick View Post
    You must be really lucky then.

    Last time I did a 10/10 mythic CN a few months ago, I haven't got a single piece of gear.
    Clearing full CN took us 2x 3 hours a week if everything went well.
    To be fair let me open with I don't like how they moved Mythic to personal loot. I understand WHY they did it and it makes SOME sense, but I still don't like it. However, with that said I'd actually probably argue that I wasn't lucky, but rather you were UNLUCKY. I mean, I go WEEKS in savage without getting a single drop from the raid. Sometimes it just happens and it sucks. In older tiers before they added pages/coffers we even went one entire 6 month tier without EVER seeing the Paladin weapon drop. That's fucking unlucky. Our weapon drop distribution was almost definitive proof that their RNG wasn't working properly that's how comically bad it was.

    Now that said, that's old news, more recently I generally walk away with an upgrade typically once every 2 weeks. I've also gotten stupid lucky in pugs and won both drops from the first 3 fights and gained like 11 ilvl day 1 of a tier. (got the tomestone and the oil, legs, and multiple accessories). Now granted if I raid in a static, I may not get gear until like week 6 because DPS need it first, and that feels bad (see Mythic personal loot), but I understand it's for the good of the group so ultimately I don't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    I know that the endgame has its flaws, but remember that in November there is a new expansion coming to FF14, Endwalker. i don't know if this expansion is going to provide the content the players need, but i hope it does, its all about waiting to see if they actually listened to their player base....
    Nearly every expansion follows the exact same content delivery model to the point that the community once it sees the fully finished Endwalker site page can predict and plan every single piece of content for the next 2 years. Whether this is a good or bad thing is mostly subjective so I won't go into that, but it's going to most likely be just more of the same with a new coat of paint.

    Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong though.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    WoW tuning being so complex due to multiplicative systems is part of why people are turned off. At least in FF14 your damage is mostly based on your skill rather than "I rolled the slot machine and got a corruption, azerite power, and trinket proc during my cooldown".
    Eh, your actual DPS (aDPS) is SUPER reliant on which party buffs you have and whether or not they know how to use their CDs effectively (overlapping them in the correct order). I fully appreciate and respect peoples preference of multiplicative systems affecting output, but I also think it's fair to acknowledge people may like to have more control over their actual output as well. Thankfully rDPS captures this on log sites very easily for FF14.

    I won't comment on Corruption as we all know that was a busted time for WoW, but I consistently put up 95% parses, so it can't be THAT much RNG. It's not like WoD, when I would go from #1 DPS, to #14 depending on procs, that was a fucked time, even if it was really fun to play Ret then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Deposit the transmog piece into the glamour dresser. Make a plate. Use it in town.

    It's not rocket science. The whole thing with the crystals is only for if you want to remove the transmog on a single item or if you want to just change a single item that is not part of your plate.

    Sure, the collections in WoW are more convenient to navigate, but people saying it is insanely better are exaggerating. It's the void storage and tool to make 12 sets. Not difficult. End result is the same.
    Collections are not only more convenient to navigate, but also plan glamours, identify where an item comes from, and put together a mock set ahead of time and see how it would look. Have fun running and teleporting between a half a dozen vendors and the market board to look at each item, or google where/which vendor/dungeon drops it. Then you've got all this stuff with not being able to place it in unless it's repaired, having a limit on # of stored items/glamour plates, etc.

    It frankly is INSANELY better.

    The ONLY feature that glamour does better (besides looking better IMO) is that you can change it anywhere you want in town, but even WoW has ways around this with a mount, which even allows glamour in raids/dungeons/overworld if desired.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I will use a few examples like: "oh no, it doesn't auto dismount me when i want to attack a mob". Who said this was a requirement? The game doesn't have mounted combat (who knows in the future) so it makes perfect sense to get out of your mount before you can attack. You just got used to it being that way. Nowhere was it decided it must work that way.
    To be fair, this annoys the crap out of me. SE already acknowledged it by auto dismounting when talking to NPCs, they really should just acquiesce and do it in combat as well. Regardless of whether "its the standard".

    I mean if I were a dev, I'd even bake it into summoning your chocobo (without having to use the stupid green). If you initiate an attack on a Chocobo it auto summons it doing a unique attack (think Choco Kick/Tackle, etc.) and you have a cool dismount animation that varies between jobs.

    But that's just me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    Out of 17 years of raids, what trash is actually intelligently designed and engaging?
    Historically trash was intended to slowly introduce baby versions of the upcoming bosses mechanics. I would argue that's intelligently designed and engaging. However, dungeon journals have nullified that benefit a long time ago so I agree. While I personally don't understand the obsession with trash, I do agree that it DOES help to generate interest in the scale of the raid.

    Speaking personally I found ARR and HW raids to be infinitely more interesting from that scale perspective than SB/ShB because of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I guess I missed the timer bars letting me know everything coming up for the next 2 minutes.

    Or.. you just mad? Oh.. you mad..
    To be fair, a lot of cutting edge FF14 raiders use cactbot, which has audible alerts, countdowns, and timers.
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2021-08-06 at 02:11 PM.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Yeah... but that is true for the other variant as well.
    I'm less bored by my SAM rotation than I am with my MM/BM rotation.
    I always thought that Hunter is the most boring class in WoW and only enjoyed a couple of weeks of playing Survival in Legion before quitting the game entirely. Ironically, I think Survival was closer in design to FFXIV, there was little to react to, but it was very refreshing to play due to having to constantly maintain several short important self-buffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    At the same time, when I'm playing for 2 hours and chain try after try in FFXIV, my fingers start to hurt.
    Same, it's one of the main reasons I would've liked less buttons in rotation. As someone without MMO mouse, even with OK keybinds my hands hurt after moderately long sessions. Some guy on Reddit was kind enough to explain how gamepad controls and crossbar work, so I'll probably try it in case I'll ever return to the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    You can immediatly tell if you did something better than last time, and you don't even need a parser for that.
    I wouldn't say you don't need parser for that. It's easy to know if you perform rotation correctly or not, but your output in general is only clear with parser.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    Same here.

    Even then, within the MUCH more packed cities than all of Orgrimmar combined, you don't see <name>-<realm-name>.
    What exactly is "same here"? I don't see how packed cities contradict my words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    you don't really see other people outside of cities and all meaningful content is done through DF and PF
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    To be fair, a lot of cutting edge FF14 raiders use cactbot, which has audible alerts, countdowns, and timers.
    To be fair is that ok to use in ToS? Because I am sure plenty of high end raiders sell runs and rating for RMT but that is not really the games fault (even if they could do better). If it's against ToS then it's not a serious arguement to be made.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Wow it's almost like wiping shouldn't be something you just shrug off and start over 1 second later

    Those 2 statements contradict each other. If you were taking a psychology test you'd get an error telling you to start over.
    You seriously need me to explain how 4 long bosses doesn't take as long as 10 short bosses with tons of trash between most of them? Like, you want me to math that out for you? Even if the FF bosses are twice as long, that would be as long as an 8 bosses in wow with no trash. Do you need me to go further?

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Im gonna just pretend everyone is nice because theyre nice. (counter me and im gonna plug my 4 ears and sing the gridania night time theme in my head).

    ETA: And a point of order, (since ive transitioned to english voice acting having watched asmon and rich stream the game for the past month - it DOES get better), Bunny girls have a canonically french accent. Im all in for shadowbringers.

    ETA2: Barely ten minutes in and im in the capital city (or at least what i think is the capital city). Im also given a rejoinder explaining the core concepts. Yeah, ive done it. But you can genuinely tell they wanted new players to figure this shit out quickly and jump right in (see also dancer). Thats pretty sweet... i mean, it wont work because of bloat and veterans wanting new shit for their class, but they tried to make it accessible for new players. I see you sqex. It literally beats the crap out of the miserable introduction for stormblood.
    You can. Most people are nice. But, the game design and consequences influence how they react to situations.

    An extra push in the right direction doesn't mean they are pretending to be nice. People tend to be nice, except for douchebags. Douchebags get cleaned out of the game pretty effectively.

  19. #419
    The devs care and play the game.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    To be fair, despite Shadowlands flaws, I felt that Nathria's story was actually quite decent and brought great interaction across the NPCs as you quested and then were pitted against them in dungeons/raids later on. Then the raid outcome literally impacts the skybox/map going forward as well as the story?

    There's a dozen+ things to dislike Shadowlands for, but I'm not sure raid story/epicness is one of them. Fair warning I haven't subbed for 9.1 so I have no input in anything other than launch Shadowlands.

    I actually hate how long FF14 encounters are. Some of my favorite fights were the gatekeeper fights back in SB. They were like 4 minutes of straight mechanics and throughput requirements (Kefka/Exdeath). They always felt so satisfying, even more satisfying than their counterparts where basically hitting 50% guaranteed you a clear, because the entire second half of the fight was just the first half in reverse or repeat.

    I can't stand doing any of the Ultimates because they're just too damned long. UwU was tolerable, but not great, the others are just annoying.
    Ultimates are certainly niche due to their length, but otherwise I think FF14 has a nice average length for fights. Some are a bit much, but on the whole I like them how they are. I don't mean to draw attention to the fight length to say FF has better fights. I'm drawing the distinction to make it clear that 4 bosses in FF is actually probably closer to at least 6 bosses in wow as far as volume of unique mechanics that will be engaged with and time spent doing fights. It certainly does not feel like a gauntlet of 4 bosses from a wow raid. That's my only point.

    I think WoW's raids, in a vacuum, are generally really well designed, best in class even. The problem is I have a hard time giving a shit when the lore is so bland and the structure of raiding makes them feel un-epic.

    While I do think that vendors could and should make a comeback, I've never found it challenging or time consuming at all to get geared in WoW and this is a hypercasual's viewpoint. I think there's pain points around weapon/trinket slots, but otherwise it's pretty trivial IMO. It's even more trivial in FF14.
    I don't think your argument here makes a lot of sense. It's fast to get geared *to what point* in WoW? If you are a mythic+ player, getting bis for the content you run is hundreds and hundreds of M+ runs over the course of months to even approach completion, and that even assumes good RNG for the vault. You may NEVER get bis for that content. For raiders, you are pushed very hard to go play M+ as well to subsidize your raid gearing.

    FF14 doesn't have any systems like that. Everything is very practically obtainable. There are no scaling, escalating systems like that. There aren't huge numbers of gear tiers in every patch.

    Alternatively, in wow, if you don't want to do rated pvp, M+, or raids, you can get maxed out comically fast, like in less than a week, so the game ends really really fast for anyone in that camp.

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