What's so good about FFXIV?

[kaminaris]

For sprouts like me, there is the Novice Network - a chat channel dedicated to newbies where they can ask questions to a bunch of long term players. Just great. The only time you don't have access to it is during a cutscene.

It gets too spammy, I found a better solution, accumulate couple of questions, teleport to some big city and find someone with a crown, ask if they have time and if they can help. So far everyone was super helpful.

[crusadernero]

FF14's story content and class fantasy is amazing, but it's the kind of game that I can only play for a month or two before I get bored. So I tend to rotate around with ESO/RS3 and other co-op games.

Tbh I think that anyone who thinks that they should "migrate" to another game is in for a rude awakening because whatever burn out or boredom you felt with WoW will happen again. The fact is that once demand > supply, people start getting agitated and I hope that with this entire WoW issue, more people start to realize that it's healthy to try out different gaming experiences.

I would imagine alot of the people that shit on wow on a daily basis(like certain streamers), also have spendt the last 16 years playing wow. So many people got thousands of hours, thousands of days even in that game. Playing day in day out, grinding in each xpac & patch and doing more or less "the same thing" in the same universe for 16 years. Yes new zones and all, but the formula & artstyle/classes++ is "the same".

Now imagine 16 years from now - will the people that play FFXIV now, still love it and praise it like they do now?

I get that people are negative to the direction wow has taken, but we cant forget that we are soon looking at two decades with the same MMORPG for alot of players. Its going to cause fatigue, frustration and boredom.

Also - if FFXIV will be the number one big MMORPG for the next decade - can we expect the same kind of good community its praised for now or will that change when the masses flock to it? Remember, we gotta look at this in the long perspective.

Personally i've always had a healthy approach to wow. If I find myself bored and not wanting to play, I just unsub and come back at a later stage. Meanwhile I play other games(also other MMORPGs). I think far to many people have sticked to playing wow even though they were more than bored of it long ago, its not healthy. Alot more people should have taken longer breaks.

It will be interesting to see if certain streamers are still going hardcore with FFXIV in a year or two. Still clocking 8+ hours a day, everyday without getting frustrated about anything at all.

lastly - funnily enough I enjoy my time in retail wow right now. I experience alot less toxicity in m+ runs & raids, its all more relaxed and friendly approaching. Its like the toxic people left the game and good people are left. For the first time since m+ was introduced, I have pushed high m+ keys because i've met so many friendly and helpful players. Thats just my observation though.

[Drindorai]

Now imagine 16 years from now - will the people that play FFXIV now, still love it and praise it like they do now?

Who...cares? What kind of value judgment is this on a game? Plenty of people have come and gone in WoW over its life cycle. I have no idea what point you're even trying to make here. FF14 (2.0+) has been out for almost exactly 8 years now and plenty of people are still playing it. Again what's the point of this statement?

I get that people are negative to the direction wow has taken, but we cant forget that we are soon looking at two decades with the same MMORPG for alot of players. Its going to cause fatigue, frustration and boredom.

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh people didn't quit Shadowlands because WoW is an old game. lol

Also - if FFXIV will be the number one big MMORPG for the next decade - can we expect the same kind of good community its praised for now or will that change when the masses flock to it? Remember, we gotta look at this in the long perspective.

I mean, if not, the direct cause would be WoW fans coming over and tainting the community since for 8 years now it's been seen as a positive force.

lastly - funnily enough I enjoy my time in retail wow right now. I experience alot less toxicity in m+ runs & raids, its all more relaxed and friendly approaching. Its like the toxic people left the game and good people are left. For the first time since m+ was introduced, I have pushed high m+ keys because i've met so many friendly and helpful players. Thats just my observation though.

You could always avoid toxic M+ players if you just played with your guild or friends.

[ippollite]

I get the point. The thing that really bugs me in wow isnt the game. Its the forums. I really cant shake this annoyance that the report button is used as a downvote button. Hear me out. It bugs me because no one is being punished for it. Logically it suggests that the wow cm's have all these reports every day and dont do anything about it. If this is the state of the forums, why would you even bother reporting anything in game? And this means the game isnt looked after. There's no standard of (enforceable) basic behaviour in game that is moderated. No one cares. It blows my mind that asmongold gets the shit he does when the game has stripped its CMs/GMs of any actual role in game and on the forums.

So when you talk about ten years in the future, i feel like its disingenuous. Wow has always (i watch kevin jordan streams and understand he literally designed the game in mind with players sometimes being assholes) allowed for a degree of toxicity in its playerbase. But its now out of control. FF14 on the other hand has had a zero tolerance approach to in game harassment. The issue here is that ff14 has a maintained standard it will always reinforce. Wow has a sliding scale ever pushed back by 'grey area' arguments. FF14 has CMs policing and reinforcing their standards. Whilst wow doesnt. Cms (and GMs) used to be epic. I remember having one of them in my guild (who only outed himself in whisper way back in vanilla while we were farming dinos in un'goro). They used to do shit. Now they get reports about rape/death threats when people really only disagree with a thread on the forums (and this legitimately annoys me because if someone ACTUALLY feels harassed, its submerged by a thousand pointless reports because players 'dont like this thread'). They dont have the staff to differentiate. And they dont have the staff to enforce consistency. This tells me so much about the value they place on the game and their community. (they dont care). I dont know what to do with this information but complain about it (and the obvious lack of CM/GMs in game).

So yeah, come to ff14. Trollolol away. But this game doesnt screw around. They have standards and they will maintain their standards. Wow doesnt. This is the reality right now.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

True but considering the pandemic not sure how fair it is to hold that against the expansion.

Stop using the pandemic as an excuse. There were warning signs about ShB before it even released with the announcement that there would be no optional dungeons (only 1 MSQ dungeon per patch, whereas back in Heavensward the team was delievering 1 MSQ dungeon + 1 new optional dungeon + 1 hard mode version of an older dungeon with new areas and fights). By the time 5.2 released (before the pandemic had hit Japan) it was clear to everyone that ShB would be the most content light expansion yet and have less content than even Stormblood, with only 2 Bozja zones (instead of the 4 Eureka had), no PotD or HoH equivalent, no Hildibrand questline or replacement, and only 3 trials instead of 5 (Stormblood had the 3 Four Lords Trials + Yojimbo trial + Rathalos trial). The cherry on top was that we didn't even get an allied beast tribe questline at the end of the expansion, which is sad given how cheap and easy it is to design and implement quests (no new zones or fights are being designed). And for the next two years, Square couldn't be bothered to hire and assign an artist or two to tweak the hats in the game to fit Hrothgar and Viera, something fans had done on their free time with mods a few months after ShB came out (and is to this day the current only way to equip hats on Hrothgar and Viera).

It's obvious that resources were disappearing from ShB before 5.0 even dropped, probably being diverted to FF16.

[reemi]

Because a popular guys on Twitch play it.

[Drindorai]

Because a popular guys on Twitch play it.

Endwalker was up 180+% of preorders over Shadowbringers before 9.1 came out and all the WoW players jumped onto the bandwagon.

But nice bait.

[crusadernero]

Who...cares? What kind of value judgment is this on a game? Plenty of people have come and gone in WoW over its life cycle. I have no idea what point you're even trying to make here. FF14 (2.0+) has been out for almost exactly 8 years now and plenty of people are still playing it. Again what's the point of this statement?



Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh people didn't quit Shadowlands because WoW is an old game. lol



I mean, if not, the direct cause would be WoW fans coming over and tainting the community since for 8 years now it's been seen as a positive force.



You could always avoid toxic M+ players if you just played with your guild or friends.

1 - I think you underestimate how vastly more popular wow has been compared to FFXIV the last decade. Yes people have played FFXIV for 8 years, but millions havent done so steadily since the beginning. It hasnt been the number one main-stream game, getting the number one attention for WHATEVER they do. I've seen streamers play FFXIV for short periods of time each year, but not day in day out everyday. Now FFXIV got everyones attention, lets see how it will be in a years(or two) time when streamers and the masses have digested the whole game over and over and over again.

This is nothing against FFXIV, its a good game for what it is. Its not for me though, I tried. But I respect that alot of people like it and I understand why they do so. Im just pointing out that FFXIV havent gotten the same attention like wow has, but now they do. It will be interesting to see how people talk about this game later on.

2 - Maybe people didnt quit in SL cause wow is an old game, but you gotta understand Blizzard is in a though spot trying to reinvent the wheel in wow. Imagine for a second if Blizzard suddenly dumped all attention in storytelling next xpac(like FFXIV) while having less raid bosses(Like FFXIV). Would people be happy about that? most certainly not.

would people be happy if Blizzard just stripped retail wow of progression paths at max level except gearing? I doubt so, cause they can never create a massive world like EK/K again and force players to spend ALOT of time leveling(Something people hate it wow).

3 - Lets see how the community acts in FFXIV over time. Hopefully it stays positive. In general with games that gains traction of most players, toxicity comes with it.

4 - Yes I know that, but outside of guild/friends I have actually had a decent time pugging. For the first time in years with m+.

[Drindorai]

Yeah you are pretty disingenuously ignoring why people are turning away from WoW dude. Looking for any other reason other than the game just being dissatisfying right now.

Stream numbers have nothing to do with the topic whatsoever. FF14 has historically always been low because people are more interested in playing and seeing the story for themselves than watching other people do it, at least until they complete it for the first time.

FF14 didn't suddenly become popular because Asmongold started playing it. Anyone who claims this is just ignorant of the sequence of events. FF14 has been steadily increasing in popularity since Heavensward and peaked at Shadowbringers, a year+ before any WoW streamer swapped over. The burst of popularity for 5.0 was not a secret to anyone. Again, this occurred over 2 years ago.

Also randomly coming across a friendly m+ group means quite literally nothing.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Now imagine 16 years from now - will the people that play FFXIV now, still love it and praise it like they do now?

Right now you have FFXIV cultists who loved the 5.0 MSQ and are shouting at the top of their lungs how great FFXIV is and ignoring the glaring flaws outside of it, and then you have an influx of newcomers who are in their honeymoon period. People will look fondly on the baseline MSQs but they will realize FFXIV had increasingly little outside of that.

Also - if FFXIV will be the number one big MMORPG for the next decade - can we expect the same kind of good community its praised for now or will that change when the masses flock to it? Remember, we gotta look at this in the long perspective.

The FFXIV community is arguably worse than WoW, but that's been discussed before (the original post isn't showing up in the searchbar or on Google). I think people who actually had to deal with the FFXIV community (rather than just playing by themselves and not really getting exposed to the muck) will look back more fondly on WoW's community.

It will be interesting to see if certain streamers are still going hardcore with FFXIV in a year or two. Still clocking 8+ hours a day, everyday without getting frustrated about anything at all.

Yeah. It will take Asmongold a few months before he finishes all of the content in the game. He'll probably stick around for a few more months levelling up other jobs, farming old raids for mounts and glamour, doing relics, trying to get a house, but eventually he's going to realize that there just isn't that much to do and that hosting fashion contests and doing PvP frontline over and over is boring. Not sure what will happen then as it's unlikely a new WoW expansion will come out within the next 12 months, so will he jump to ESO or GW2 to try them out? Or will he just spend less time playing MMOs?

[Ange]

It will be interesting to see if certain streamers are still going hardcore with FFXIV in a year or two. Still clocking 8+ hours a day, everyday without getting frustrated about anything at all.

Successfull streamers will do what ever it takes to grow. If its game hopping, they will change games.

The skillfull game streamers do not attract that many people to watch them.

FFXIV right now is filler content since WoW CLASSIC as filler content for WoW streamers did not work out that well.

I am just surprised that amazons/twitch's NEW WORLD doesnt got more WoW streamer attention, I am sure there is good money to be made with playing a few weeks the next best WoW killer game, till the hype dies.

[ippollite]

I genuinely love that max (limit) and sloot are playing the game. Not only from a business perspective, but also from a gameplay perspective. Max is gonna boost. Sloot is gonna grind. But however they both get there its an amazing moment for mmo's. The ff14 community is getting a shot in its butt. And in turn, they get so many more opportunities to flex. Ive explained this terribly. But endwalker (and 6.1) is going to be a trip.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I get the point. The thing that really bugs me in wow isnt the game. Its the forums. I really cant shake this annoyance that the report button is used as a downvote button. Hear me out. It bugs me because no one is being punished for it. Logically it suggests that the wow cm's have all these reports every day and dont do anything about it. If this is the state of the forums, why would you even bother reporting anything in game? And this means the game isnt looked after. There's no standard of (enforceable) basic behaviour in game that is moderated. No one cares. It blows my mind that asmongold gets the shit he does when the game has stripped its CMs/GMs of any actual role in game and on the forums.

So when you talk about ten years in the future, i feel like its disingenuous. Wow has always (i watch kevin jordan streams and understand he literally designed the game in mind with players sometimes being assholes) allowed for a degree of toxicity in its playerbase. But its now out of control. FF14 on the other hand has had a zero tolerance approach to in game harassment. The issue here is that ff14 has a maintained standard it will always reinforce. Wow has a sliding scale ever pushed back by 'grey area' arguments. FF14 has CMs policing and reinforcing their standards. Whilst wow doesnt. Cms (and GMs) used to be epic. I remember having one of them in my guild (who only outed himself in whisper way back in vanilla while we were farming dinos in un'goro). They used to do shit. Now they get reports about rape/death threats when people really only disagree with a thread on the forums (and this legitimately annoys me because if someone ACTUALLY feels harassed, its submerged by a thousand pointless reports because players 'dont like this thread'). They dont have the staff to differentiate. And they dont have the staff to enforce consistency. This tells me so much about the value they place on the game and their community. (they dont care). I dont know what to do with this information but complain about it (and the obvious lack of CM/GMs in game).

So yeah, come to ff14. Trollolol away. But this game doesnt screw around. They have standards and they will maintain their standards. Wow doesnt. This is the reality right now.

I'd say that FFXIV's moderation is worse than WoW's. In WoW you can say whatever you want and you won't be penalized for it. Maybe people will yell at you, but you're playing a social game. Develop a thick skin. And in the rare chance you do get banned, it's usually only for a few days. FFXIV is worse in that if you say something innocuous and someone claims that they were offended, you could get teleported to GM jail and possibly get a warning on your account that never goes away, and three strikes and your permabanned. Hence why many of us never use the ingame chat in FFXIV to talk to anyone because it's just not worth the risk.

- - - Updated - - -

1 - I think you underestimate how vastly more popular wow has been compared to FFXIV the last decade. Yes people have played FFXIV for 8 years, but millions havent done so steadily since the beginning. It hasnt been the number one main-stream game, getting the number one attention for WHATEVER they do. I've seen streamers play FFXIV for short periods of time each year, but not day in day out everyday. Now FFXIV got everyones attention, lets see how it will be in a years(or two) time when streamers and the masses have digested the whole game over and over and over again.

This is nothing against FFXIV, its a good game for what it is. Its not for me though, I tried. But I respect that alot of people like it and I understand why they do so. Im just pointing out that FFXIV havent gotten the same attention like wow has, but now they do. It will be interesting to see how people talk about this game later on.

This. The FFXIV fandoms and the WoW fandoms are largely two different demographics with different tastes. WoW fans are older and are more into MMOs and hardcore aesthetics and don't care about the story that much. The FFXIV fandom is younger and has a lot of crossover with the new anime fandom that has sprung up in the West over the past 10 years, and they are super into story. Some disgruntled WoW players are checking out FFXIV but for most they are simply aren't interested and aren't looking for a replacement MMO, but simply dropping out of the genre entirely.

- - - Updated - - -

2 - Maybe people didnt quit in SL cause wow is an old game, but you gotta understand Blizzard is in a though spot trying to reinvent the wheel in wow. Imagine for a second if Blizzard suddenly dumped all attention in storytelling next xpac(like FFXIV) while having less raid bosses(Like FFXIV). Would people be happy about that? most certainly not.

Also true. I'd be happy if Blizzard made a high quality story based expansion, but I'm the odd one out and most WoW players do not value that highly.

[ippollite]

I'd say that FFXIV's moderation is worse than WoW's. In WoW you can say whatever you want and you won't be penalized for it. Maybe people will yell at you, but you're playing a social game. Develop a thick skin. And in the rare chance you do get banned, it's usually only for a few days. FFXIV is worse in that if you say something innocuous and someone claims that they were offended, you could get teleported to GM jail and possibly get a warning on your account that never goes away, and three strikes and your permabanned. Hence why many of us never use the ingame chat in FFXIV to talk to anyone because it's just not worth the risk.

Dont be sad! This is a thing that people ignore: The toxicity hit wow in mid vanilla. I remember having to call people out way back then for assuming that anyone in WC was an alt and not a new player. I see the current game as a logical extension of this line of thinking. There are no 'new' players in wow. There are only trolls trying to scupper your experience. As it was, thus has it ever been.

But my point is that theres no GM moderation (or CM if we're talking forums). I dont hate the wow community. I get them. But theres no (enforceable) standard of... etiquette. Neither in game nor on the forums (the literal first stop for new players). And this change occurred around wod (redundancies notwithstanding).

ETA: I have a super thick skin because of wow. Thanks. But cant you just... i dunno, set a standard (and reach it) for your official forums?

Eta2: i think theres this misnomer that players are on their best behaviour in ff14 because they fear the ban. And i want to address this: in wow i was patient and kind because i loved the game and wanted other people new to the game, to love it too. In ff14, i love the game and want new players to love the game as well. I havent changed. Sure, the ban stick isnt on my radar, but im not being fake-nice. I just really like the game. That theres a filter (through in game moderation) literally doesnt affect me.

[Kauko]

I would imagine alot of the people that shit on wow on a daily basis(like certain streamers), also have spendt the last 16 years playing wow. So many people got thousands of hours, thousands of days even in that game. Playing day in day out, grinding in each xpac & patch and doing more or less "the same thing" in the same universe for 16 years. Yes new zones and all, but the formula & artstyle/classes++ is "the same".

Now imagine 16 years from now - will the people that play FFXIV now, still love it and praise it like they do now?

I get that people are negative to the direction wow has taken, but we cant forget that we are soon looking at two decades with the same MMORPG for alot of players. Its going to cause fatigue, frustration and boredom.

Also - if FFXIV will be the number one big MMORPG for the next decade - can we expect the same kind of good community its praised for now or will that change when the masses flock to it? Remember, we gotta look at this in the long perspective.

Personally i've always had a healthy approach to wow. If I find myself bored and not wanting to play, I just unsub and come back at a later stage. Meanwhile I play other games(also other MMORPGs). I think far to many people have sticked to playing wow even though they were more than bored of it long ago, its not healthy. Alot more people should have taken longer breaks.

It will be interesting to see if certain streamers are still going hardcore with FFXIV in a year or two. Still clocking 8+ hours a day, everyday without getting frustrated about anything at all.

lastly - funnily enough I enjoy my time in retail wow right now. I experience alot less toxicity in m+ runs & raids, its all more relaxed and friendly approaching. Its like the toxic people left the game and good people are left. For the first time since m+ was introduced, I have pushed high m+ keys because i've met so many friendly and helpful players. Thats just my observation though.

This. More and more it shows that lots of people that left, lived for one game only for 15+ years. I also play like you said. When I get bored, I go and play something else. But lots of "nerds" just don't want this. Its like nothing else exists outside of wow...

Also, regarding toxicity. I experienced the same thing...

I still have my critiques over wow, especially in SL... especially millions of systems, ignorance towards PVP... But as before, when I get fed up I just unsub.

[Drindorai]

In WoW you can say whatever you want and you won't be penalized for it.

Imagine saying this and thinking it's a good thing.

And people wonder why the Warcraft community has a reputation as a toxic shithole.

FFXIV is worse in that if you say something innocuous and someone claims that they were offended, you could get teleported to GM jail and possibly get a warning on your account that never goes away, and three strikes and your permabanned.

A flat out lie. If you're being a dickhead saying bigoted shit, you get punished. You can be an edgyboi all you want as long as you don't verge into actual bigotry.

I know for people like Val apparently that means 'censorship' but the idea that people aren't speaking in chat because of this is so laughably, ridiculously, fucking absurdly false on its face that I have to wonder what the hell they're actually wanting to say in chat but can't if this is their takeaway.

The level of absolute dishonesty and flatout lies Val has been spouting about this game has been astronomically off the charts. It comes off like they just want to be an unrepentant asshole to people and are upset that they cannot be in FF14. Perhaps WoW is best for them if that's the case.

ETA: I have a super thick skin because of wow. Thanks. But cant you just... i dunno, set a standard (and reach it) for your official forums?

It's exceptionally easy to not be an asshole lol

Sure, the ban stick isnt on my radar, but im not being fake-nice.

Nor is really anyone else. People like Val act like players are on the edge looking around every corner hoping they don't offend a GM or else they'll be banned. That isn't happening for anybody who isn't already looking to unleash bigoted shit in chat and have to actively control themselves from not doing so.

I've had several fairly contentious conversations with people as WoW players have entered the community in terms of people insisting on, for example, pulling 4-5 packs of mobs with a new healer. Not once have I been infracted or otherwise punished for it. Why? Because I'm not dropping slurs and insulting people.

It's not hard to do so lol

The FFXIV community is arguably worse than WoW, but that's been discussed before (the original post isn't showing up in the searchbar or on Google). I think people who actually had to deal with the FFXIV community (rather than just playing by themselves and not really getting exposed to the muck) will look back more fondly on WoW's community.

Absolute copium confirmation bias.

[Rogalicus]

I've had several fairly contentious conversations with people as WoW players have entered the community in terms of people insisting on, for example, pulling 4-5 packs of mobs with a new healer. Not once have I been infracted or otherwise punished for it. Why? Because

Because they haven't reported you for violating SE policies, you've abused them not knowing the rules. Policies are very clear about it

"Offensive expression" means an expression in general that inflicts emotional distress by being offensive to another person. Offensive expression may include:
Expressions that compel a playing style
Offensive expressions are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made in Final Fantasy XIV, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. Use of an offensive expression in the form of a character name is also regarded as nuisance behaviour.

I hope you'll repent for your insidious toxicity. Though something tells me you enjoy belittling others and violating SE's rules, for example

The level of absolute dishonesty and flatout lies Val has been spouting about this game has been astronomically off the charts. It comes off like they just want to be an unrepentant asshole to people and are upset that they cannot be in FF14. Perhaps WoW is best for them if that's the case.

Offensive expression may include:
Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.

[meowfurion]

To be fair, I could stack every possible upgrade/materia in SkS and my GCD goes from 2.5 to 2.25. It's a difference, technically even a noticeable one, but it comes at a huge cost to actual output and doesn't even make the gameplay better, in some cases makes it worse for my job (PLD) because it forces you into overwriting your DoTs before their final tick. That said, having just passive SkS puts you at like 2.3x-2.4x so from 2.25 to that isn't even a noticeable upgrade there.

I main a Dragoon.

I have absolutely zero added +skillspeed materias on my gear.

I ALWAYS have a button to push, that isn't on cooldown, and even i can't keep up with it sometimes because boss fights can be so fast paced and action packed, especially in Savage modes where you better have your rotation both memorized and your situational awareness on point or you are dead.

I think people who think that the game has slow combat haven't leveled up high enough that their class/job plays like it's supposed to play.

Take Machinist for example:

SUPER boring slow gameplay.............until you get to level 50+..and then it's a hectic, fun, fast and strong DPS rotation.

If a button you want to push on GCB? push something else then.

[Rogalicus]

I ALWAYS have a button to push, that isn't on cooldown

Every class in the game is GCD locked, what's your point?

If a button you want to push on GCB? push something else then.

Let's do some basic math. Basic GCD is 2.5s, that means 24 (60/2.5) casts per minute just from your GCD abilities. If your ping is good enough, you can weave 2 oGCDs between every GCD, which means three button presses per GCD, so 72 (24*3) casts per minute at the minimum. Highest CPM class in the game has 48 with permanent SkS buff, so with 2.13s GCD before other SkS sources. You know what that means? Your argument is false.

[meowfurion]

Every class in the game is GCD locked, what's your point?

............*stares blankly, thinking of skills off the GCD that are supposed to be used between abilities that are on it*

Let's do some basic math. Basic GCD is 2.5s, that means 24 (60/2.5) casts per minute just from your GCD abilities. If your ping is good enough, you can weave 2 oGCDs between every GCD, which means three button presses per GCD, so 72 (24*3) casts per minute at the minimum. Highest CPM class in the game has 48 with permanent SkS buff, so with 2.13s GCD before other SkS sources. You know what that means? Your argument is false.

See above.