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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    only downside for me is the level requirements on certain classes. why cant i play dancer at lvl 15 or lvl 20? it feels weird having to "waste time" leveling a class i dont intend to play, just so i can play the class i want.
    Same. I don't like starting new jobs at level 50+ either. I understand the reasoning behind it, but I wish there were an option to start them at level 1 even if I can't unlock them until level 50+. I know there's PotD but, frankly, I don't get the love for that place. I was bored out of my mind there and, aside from a chance at vanity items, still don't understand how it's 'so much better than Torghast'.

    I'm trudging through post-ARR trying to get to the point I can finally try out machinist. The least they could do is not lock it behind getting to Heavensward MSQ, I've been over level 50 for a while now.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Same. I don't like starting new jobs at level 50+ either. I understand the reasoning behind it, but I wish there were an option to start them at level 1 even if I can't unlock them until level 50+. I know there's PotD but, frankly, I don't get the love for that place. I was bored out of my mind there and, aside from a chance at vanity items, still don't understand how it's 'so much better than Torghast'.

    I'm trudging through post-ARR trying to get to the point I can finally try out machinist. The least they could do is not lock it behind getting to Heavensward MSQ, I've been over level 50 for a while now.
    worst part of the expansion jobs is the skill placements you get on your bar is just a jumbled mess and makes no sense. so yeah i'd also prefer to level them from scratch tbh.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  3. #423
    Grunt PsychoSe7eN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizen244 View Post
    Why is everyone migrating to this game now? what makes it so good?
    It isn't WOW. That's more than enough for a lot of people at this point.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-08-07 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Fixed Post Quote

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoSe7eN View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aizen244 View Post
    Why is everyone migrating to this game now?what makes it so good?
    It isn't WOW. That's more than enough for a lot of people at this point.
    Those players will quit and just return to WoW eventually so it's probably not quite true.
    There are players looking for a game which is "it isn't WOW" and there are players who got hooked the first few hours and not planning to go back to WoW.

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  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    To be fair is that ok to use in ToS? Because I am sure plenty of high end raiders sell runs and rating for RMT but that is not really the games fault (even if they could do better). If it's against ToS then it's not a serious arguement to be made.
    I'm just letting you know that a decent subset of the raiding playerbase uses an identical addon, regardless of it's legality, because you made a comment about timers as if they didn't exist in CE content in FF14, and they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Ultimates are certainly niche due to their length, but otherwise I think FF14 has a nice average length for fights. Some are a bit much, but on the whole I like them how they are. I don't mean to draw attention to the fight length to say FF has better fights. I'm drawing the distinction to make it clear that 4 bosses in FF is actually probably closer to at least 6 bosses in wow as far as volume of unique mechanics that will be engaged with and time spent doing fights. It certainly does not feel like a gauntlet of 4 bosses from a wow raid. That's my only point.
    I understand your distinction, I just have a hard time empathizing. I don't value my raiding experience by the number of mechanics I experience or the time spent doing the activity (especially since I'm someone who is a hyper casual raid logger in both games). I'd be curious to see others opinions on what aspects of raiding they actually value. I've done this exercise in another thread maybe, and the actual count of unique mechanics isn't actually that different between the games, but again to be clear, that's not how I determine value in raids so the point is mostly moot.

    I think WoW's raids, in a vacuum, are generally really well designed, best in class even. The problem is I have a hard time giving a shit when the lore is so bland and the structure of raiding makes them feel un-epic.
    For sure, I feel that. Granted I think we can both agree there are exceptions to the rule.

    I don't think your argument here makes a lot of sense. It's fast to get geared *to what point* in WoW? If you are a mythic+ player, getting bis for the content you run is hundreds and hundreds of M+ runs over the course of months to even approach completion, and that even assumes good RNG for the vault. You may NEVER get bis for that content. For raiders, you are pushed very hard to go play M+ as well to subsidize your raid gearing.
    First off, let me preface that I'm not some BiS soup player. I don't chase the perfect set of gear in any game I play. I get upgrades so that my ilvl is effectively "maxed out" within reason. I don't need a game to tell me when I'm "done". I make that distinction on my own. Once I'm happy with my ilvl (high enough to get the logs I want, 95%+) I don't bother chasing upgrades any more and just let them come as they come.

    I consistently have 99-100% logs in WoW if you sort by ilvl. If you do actual %, they're about 95% usually and I'm satisfied with that. I'm usually about 7 ilvl lower than other mythic raiders, but still competitive with them.
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2021-08-06 at 08:00 PM.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I understand your distinction, I just have a hard time empathizing. I don't value my raiding experience by the number of mechanics I experience or the time spent doing the activity (especially since I'm someone who is a hyper casual raid logger in both games). I'd be curious to see others opinions on what aspects of raiding they actually value. I've done this exercise in another thread maybe, and the actual count of unique mechanics isn't actually that different between the games, but again to be clear, that's not how I determine value in raids so the point is mostly moot.
    I think the distinctions exist mostly in grey zone when it comes to encounter design. There are always exceptions to the rule as far as the differences go, but the things I like about FF specifically are:

    1. A tendency toward multi-phase bosses.
    2. Significant numbers of movement mechanics. In particular, this makes tanking more engaging.
    3. A genuine focus on timing mitigation cooldowns for tanking.

    But most of my issue with WoW's raiding has nothing to do with encounter design. The encounter design is generally great, and the only big issue I see is too many one-gimmick fights. My big issues with wow raids are too much trash, too many difficulty settings, part of a bad story, stuff like that.

    First off, let me preface that I'm not some BiS soup player. I don't chase the perfect set of gear in any game I play. I get upgrades so that my ilvl is effectively "maxed out" within reason. I don't need a game to tell me when I'm "done". I make that distinction on my own. Once I'm happy with my ilvl (high enough to get the logs I want, 95%+) I don't bother chasing upgrades any more and just let them come as they come.

    I consistently have 99-100% logs in WoW if you sort by ilvl. If you do actual %, they're about 95% usually and I'm satisfied with that. I'm usually about 7 ilvl lower than other mythic raiders, but still competitive with them.
    I think the issue is sort of hidden in what you said here. You don't get BiS, you kind of just decide you are good at a certain point. There's nothing at all wrong with feeling that way. However, for a lot of people, being able to target a very tangible, specific BiS is really important. That sense of completion and goal-setting really matters. In FF14, this is really really simply. Whatever content you like, your BiS is 100% obvious, clear, and achievable.

    WoW has a real problem in this regard, but let me set some definitions first:

    Tier 1 endgame content: Mythic (not plus) dungeons, vendor gear, crafting, LFR, non-rated pvp.
    Tier 2 endgame content: Mythic+, normal-mythic raiding, rated pvp.

    You exhaust Tier 1 gearing absurdly fast, so that's a non-starter. If you only like that type of content, wow endgame gearing is simply not made for you.

    Tier 2 gearing is all built on scaling and/or scheduling and organization. The BiS for mythic+ is absurd. The BiS for normal-heroic raiders is the heroic raiding gear and that leaves normal raiders a bit in the lurch and heroic raiders are generally going to be expected to be doing M+, which actually provides better gear than heroic raiding at the end of the day. Rated PvP players have a very clear system for them, but this is again leaving non-rated PvPers behind. Mythic raiders have a clear goal, but they are a tiny minority of players.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    only downside for me is the level requirements on certain classes. why cant i play dancer at lvl 15 or lvl 20? it feels weird having to "waste time" leveling a class i dont intend to play, just so i can play the class i want.
    Probably partly because they would feel weird without job quests.

    And partly because they want you to have things you look forward to.

    Gonna be even worse in Endwalker when you need to be 70 to unlock sage and reaper...

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Speaking personally I found ARR and HW raids to be infinitely more interesting from that scale perspective than SB/ShB because of that.
    This is a confusing statement, because the SB/ShB raids also have trash? As someone who has played FF12 and Nier and Automata, I loved all the callbacks to the trash in those raids.

    Or did you just mean you liked the trash better in those ARR/HW raids?

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrick View Post
    I can't do anything but correct them, because it's just not true.
    You can't say whether it is true or not because it is completely subjective. YOU think it isn't true, but that doesn't make it a set in stone, indisputable fact. As a WoW player dipping my toes into FFXIV, I found getting the UI to a point that I am happy with is far more frustrating in FFXIV than it is in WoW because it is so much less configurable than WoWs.

  10. #430
    I prefer WoW because the Pay to Win model is literally advertised. I can buy gold through the in-game store and use that gold to buy heroic runs and get gear funneled to me without ever having any skill. I can't just easier buy gold in other MMO's then use it to buy runs. I love the Activision foundations of being able to buy what I want with zero risk.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    The sprout icon.

    Im three quests away from losing it and im already super sad. I am the worst whitemage in this game. If you dont believe me ask my poor co-healer who had to raise me 5 times in the Tsuyu fight because i didnt understand that nightfall is not a stack marker (to be fair, nor did the dps who kept blowing the hell up - or maybe no one understood its a line marker and were too busy dodging the fans... point is, i was in a terrible group and i definitely pulled my weight in making it terrible). I need that marker to fish for commendations... At the start of every dungeon i get to say 'first time here! Anything i should know?' knowing full well no one will say more than 'lets do this!' (i play on japanese servers)
    Then when i actually holy and assize trash mobs, everyone is mad impressed. If no one dies in the boss fights, with that little sprout on my head, i get showered with commendations, easy. Its so validating!

    If i make a character on a new server, it comes back, right? Theres an unofficial oceanic server in the JP data server, i have a THM at level 25 on it. I switched to my current server because... i dont know why? I think i just wanted to start again after getting my head around it. If i switch back to her, i can be a sprout again? Obviously i'll make her a healer... I love being a sprout. Everyone is so lovely to my massive screw ups.

    ETA: Im only half joking. Im going to miss my sprout icon. But we're all in this together in shadowbringers. But if i do get it back by switching servers... i might just have a second play through on my aura instead of leveling jobs on my current main.
    You will be fine without the sprout. Even when it is gone just let your party know that your somewhat new, your tank should adjust accordingly. Even when coming back from long breaks and I know I am going to be rusty I give my group a heads up saying that I just came back from a couple month break. I have never seen anything short of "ok" and "you got this" As someone who has main'd tank because of the level 50 pvp armor(I miss when it actually required pvp rank, so glad they made it even cooler for DRK though). As long as I could tell my healer was trying they get my comm every single time and it seems like I usually get the healers comm. It seems to be a toss up who the dps gives theirs to. As long as you continue to play healer you will be drowning in comms. Just be upfront with your group, it goes a long way. Remember you won't be kicked because the tank has to take the run a little slower/the dps knowing they need to be less reckless, the dps do not want to wait in que again looking for another healer.

  12. #432
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizen244 View Post
    Why is everyone migrating to this game now? what makes it so good?
    I'm not new to FFXIV, but what makes it good? My guess would be the mass appeal it has right now.

    But I've always enjoyed the final fantasy series. The common elements all the games share always amuses me. The job system in XIV is nice, that way you don't necessarily have to reroll a toon unless you want another race.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    You will be fine without the sprout. Even when it is gone just let your party know that your somewhat new, your tank should adjust accordingly. Even when coming back from long breaks and I know I am going to be rusty I give my group a heads up saying that I just came back from a couple month break. I have never seen anything short of "ok" and "you got this" As someone who has main'd tank because of the level 50 pvp armor(I miss when it actually required pvp rank, so glad they made it even cooler for DRK though). As long as I could tell my healer was trying they get my comm every single time and it seems like I usually get the healers comm. It seems to be a toss up who the dps gives theirs to. As long as you continue to play healer you will be drowning in comms. Just be upfront with your group, it goes a long way. Remember you won't be kicked because the tank has to take the run a little slower/the dps knowing they need to be less reckless, the dps do not want to wait in que again looking for another healer.
    Ah, its not so serious. I really meant to just chat about how good the sprout system is in itself (and accidentally overloaded it with personal anecdotes). Plus now that im in Shadowbringers, i get to play with the trust system (very exciting for an anti social player like me). Thank you though for your empathetic responses. Its nice when people want to encourage you.

    But coming back to the sprout thing. It really is a wonderful system. I genuinely expected it to be over pretty quickly, but for the game to insist that you be treated as a new player all the way up to the new expansion is an amazing courtesy. It recognises that even if you can run aurum vale at level 47, the mechanical complexity in running group content nevertheless increases and you shouldnt be expected to know how to deal with it in your first time running through it. So the things i like about it are: a) it is a license to mess up a bit. Its also a nice alert to non sprouts that they may need to go a little more gently (without compelling the sprout to out themselves as a noobie). b) it lasts so long... 370 hours according to my steam page. Admittedly 340 hours of that are cut scenes, but still... c) The community are just so welcoming to that little green icon. It makes you feel like you're part of this eco system almost immediately. d) When you lose it, it feels right. Its time for you to take on that mantle of being a long term player and help the new generation of sprouts feel that same level of kindness you received.

    Its just such a wonderful system with all these weird (un)intended consequences.

  14. #434
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    I just did the return to Ivalice questline for the first time....I was blown away by the details and nods and easter eggs they brought from both FFT and FF12...I was speechless. Seriously even the sound tracks the same exactly! I had super fun in those raids. What blow me away the most that the story is basically a continuation of the cliffhanger ending of the original FFT in PS1 which was released in 1997+ era...and that game was one of my favorite of the FF titles...so imagine my feeling when I finally saw how the story continued...so overwhelmed can't even write haha

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyviroth View Post
    I dunno. People got bored with WoW but still need their MMO fix? Not sure.

    I played with the 30 day free trial a couple of years ago, and again recently with the free weekend. I can say that the one thing I liked about FF14 is that you don't need alts. You can level up one character through every class/job and can mix and match some abilities between the two.

    However, I could not stand the GCD. The GCD is like, 3 seconds or something. Combat feels kind of unresponsive too. Like, it'll only show damage at the point the attack animation hits, but will not calculate it until the entire animation is finished. It feels clunky.
    If only there were some ability or 'gem' item that could modify your cooldowns and make everything go faster.......

    oh wait.
    If we could all sit and talk without demonizing one another and attempt to understand the opposite point of view, the collective world would be a better place. Mental bigotry is the worst of all.

  16. #436
    Anyone talking about the gcd hasnt beat arr. Honestly, they're outing themselves. This doesnt make their perspective invalid, class progression genuinely sucks in arr. 'I know it, you know it, everybody knows it.' But i struggle to take their complaints seriously. I want to because of course gameplay wise, arr is a dumpsterfire (and should/will(?) be improved). But if thats all you've got, i know you havent progressed to your job quest. I just know. You are super valid. Im also complaining about this (as are the million or so players wanting to level up extra jobs and spamming a two button rotation for 40 or so levels until shit happens). It sucks. Its a terrible way to introduce the game to new players. I know it, you know it, sqex knows it.

    My proposition is this: if they dont fix this post endbringers, we riot. But they aint going to prioritise this right now. Hell, given covid exploding right now in tokyo... if they meet the deadline for launch i will genuinely be amazed.

    (i live in that part of the world: Korea should shut down right now for three weeks, but wont because the economy. Japan is... well its exploding. 2020 was a catch up year for industry. 2021 (and delta+++) is a reckoning. Sqex is going to be hurt by this. If you dont think so you arent appraised of the facts. (What wow faced in 2020 sqex will face in 2021). If this expansion arrives on time, either its abusive behaviour or its a miracle. Where are we at right now? 30% when the us/uk is at 65-70%? Korea is at record highs (a mere 1800 cases per day). Japan is (with all its mask wearing culture, just like korea), at 14,000 cases per day. I know this is nothing compared to the US norm. But its terrifying to japan (who have NEVER seen these daily numbers). And there will be measures. And this will impact production. Because of course it will. They wont meet their self imposed deadline. And if they do... im sort of mad at them because they prioritised the game over their devs).
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-07 at 12:56 PM.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Anyone talking about the gcd hasnt beat arr. Honestly, they're outing themselves. This doesnt make their perspective invalid, class progression genuinely sucks in arr. 'I know it, you know it, everybody knows it.' But i struggle to take their complaints seriously. I want to because of course gameplay wise, arr is a dumpsterfire (and should/will(?) be improved). But if thats all you've got, i know you havent progressed to your job quest. I just know. You are super valid. Im also complaining about this (as are the million or so players wanting to level up extra jobs and spamming a two button rotation for 40 or so levels until shit happens). It sucks. Its a terrible way to introduce the game to new players. I know it, you know it, sqex knows it.

    My proposition is this: if they dont fix this post endbringers, we riot. But they aint going to prioritise this right now. Hell, given covid exploding right now in tokyo... if they meet the deadline for launch i will genuinely be amazed.

    (i live in that part of the world: Korea should shut down right now for three weeks, but wont because the economy. Japan is... well its exploding. 2020 was a catch up year for industry. 2021 (and delta+++) is a reckoning. Sqex is going to be hurt by this. If you dont think so you arent appraised of the facts. (What wow faced in 2020 sqex will face in 2021). If this expansion arrives on time, either its abusive behaviour or its a miracle. Where are we at right now? 30% when the us/uk is at 65-70%? Korea is at record highs (a mere 1800 cases per day). Japan is (with all its mask wearing culture, just like korea), at 14,000 cases per day. I know this is nothing compared to the US norm. But its terrifying to japan (who have NEVER seen these daily numbers). And there will be measures. And this will impact production. Because of course it will. They wont meet their self imposed deadline. And if they do... im sort of mad at them because they prioritised the game over their devs).
    Eh, that depends on the job, really. RDM, BLM, DNC, feel slow even at 80, for example. Then you have a class like DRG, which is more active and oGCD like. MNK feels quick at times, SAM, BRD/MCH others. But even jobs with oGCDs don't exactly spam them for entire rotations, they're on some form of cooldown. Of course there's still a significant difference between jobs and how they feel as a whole when you go from level 1 to level 60. I'd say you can't get a good idea of a job until 60, not 50. Like, I really dislike SCH at 50, and WHM feels so much better after you get to max level in every expansion. A lot of jobs do, for sure.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  18. #438
    I will happily defer to you. Ive leveled one job to 70 (whm). And its the easiest job in game. (shb spoilers)

    i just watched the trailer... 'become the warrior of darkness'... i mean, i knew this was coming, everyone spoils it even with their best intentions... but... but... im still passed out at the crystal tower. This is a fugue state. You are going to have to go some way to convince me otherwise.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-07 at 01:20 PM.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    I just did the return to Ivalice questline for the first time....I was blown away by the details and nods and easter eggs they brought from both FFT and FF12...I was speechless. Seriously even the sound tracks the same exactly! I had super fun in those raids. What blow me away the most that the story is basically a continuation of the cliffhanger ending of the original FFT in PS1 which was released in 1997+ era...and that game was one of my favorite of the FF titles...so imagine my feeling when I finally saw how the story continued...so overwhelmed can't even write haha
    Helps that the same writer of those games returned to write that storyline in FF14 :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    (i live in that part of the world: Korea should shut down right now for three weeks, but wont because the economy. Japan is... well its exploding. 2020 was a catch up year for industry. 2021 (and delta+++) is a reckoning. Sqex is going to be hurt by this. If you dont think so you arent appraised of the facts. (What wow faced in 2020 sqex will face in 2021). If this expansion arrives on time, either its abusive behaviour or its a miracle. Where are we at right now? 30% when the us/uk is at 65-70%? Korea is at record highs (a mere 1800 cases per day). Japan is (with all its mask wearing culture, just like korea), at 14,000 cases per day. I know this is nothing compared to the US norm. But its terrifying to japan (who have NEVER seen these daily numbers). And there will be measures. And this will impact production. Because of course it will. They wont meet their self imposed deadline. And if they do... im sort of mad at them because they prioritised the game over their devs).
    There's quite a lot of supposition here about releasing the expansion vs crunch with no proof behind it. The patches and expansions were already delayed by a few months by Yoshi-P and Square Enix's own admission starting with 5.3 because of covid. The delay already happened.
    Last edited by Drindorai; 2021-08-07 at 03:52 PM.

  20. #440
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Matsuno can write interesting plots, but he can't write endearing characters if his life depended on it. The only characters in his stuff that were likeable were Al Cid and Larsa from FF12, and Ramza from FFXIV.

    Well, I guess Lyon from Bozja was also pretty cool. Now that I think about it, Matsuno's villains tend to be way more interesting and likeable characters than the guys I'm supposed to be playing as and sympathizing with.

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