"Do I care for the lives of mortals? No. Do you care for the lives of ants that crawls beneath your feet?"
Signature by the awesome Winter Blossom
I'm just letting you know that a decent subset of the raiding playerbase uses an identical addon, regardless of it's legality, because you made a comment about timers as if they didn't exist in CE content in FF14, and they do.
I understand your distinction, I just have a hard time empathizing. I don't value my raiding experience by the number of mechanics I experience or the time spent doing the activity (especially since I'm someone who is a hyper casual raid logger in both games). I'd be curious to see others opinions on what aspects of raiding they actually value. I've done this exercise in another thread maybe, and the actual count of unique mechanics isn't actually that different between the games, but again to be clear, that's not how I determine value in raids so the point is mostly moot.
For sure, I feel that. Granted I think we can both agree there are exceptions to the rule.I think WoW's raids, in a vacuum, are generally really well designed, best in class even. The problem is I have a hard time giving a shit when the lore is so bland and the structure of raiding makes them feel un-epic.
First off, let me preface that I'm not some BiS soup player. I don't chase the perfect set of gear in any game I play. I get upgrades so that my ilvl is effectively "maxed out" within reason. I don't need a game to tell me when I'm "done". I make that distinction on my own. Once I'm happy with my ilvl (high enough to get the logs I want, 95%+) I don't bother chasing upgrades any more and just let them come as they come.I don't think your argument here makes a lot of sense. It's fast to get geared *to what point* in WoW? If you are a mythic+ player, getting bis for the content you run is hundreds and hundreds of M+ runs over the course of months to even approach completion, and that even assumes good RNG for the vault. You may NEVER get bis for that content. For raiders, you are pushed very hard to go play M+ as well to subsidize your raid gearing.
I consistently have 99-100% logs in WoW if you sort by ilvl. If you do actual %, they're about 95% usually and I'm satisfied with that. I'm usually about 7 ilvl lower than other mythic raiders, but still competitive with them.
Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2021-08-06 at 08:00 PM.
I think the distinctions exist mostly in grey zone when it comes to encounter design. There are always exceptions to the rule as far as the differences go, but the things I like about FF specifically are:
1. A tendency toward multi-phase bosses.
2. Significant numbers of movement mechanics. In particular, this makes tanking more engaging.
3. A genuine focus on timing mitigation cooldowns for tanking.
But most of my issue with WoW's raiding has nothing to do with encounter design. The encounter design is generally great, and the only big issue I see is too many one-gimmick fights. My big issues with wow raids are too much trash, too many difficulty settings, part of a bad story, stuff like that.
I think the issue is sort of hidden in what you said here. You don't get BiS, you kind of just decide you are good at a certain point. There's nothing at all wrong with feeling that way. However, for a lot of people, being able to target a very tangible, specific BiS is really important. That sense of completion and goal-setting really matters. In FF14, this is really really simply. Whatever content you like, your BiS is 100% obvious, clear, and achievable.First off, let me preface that I'm not some BiS soup player. I don't chase the perfect set of gear in any game I play. I get upgrades so that my ilvl is effectively "maxed out" within reason. I don't need a game to tell me when I'm "done". I make that distinction on my own. Once I'm happy with my ilvl (high enough to get the logs I want, 95%+) I don't bother chasing upgrades any more and just let them come as they come.
I consistently have 99-100% logs in WoW if you sort by ilvl. If you do actual %, they're about 95% usually and I'm satisfied with that. I'm usually about 7 ilvl lower than other mythic raiders, but still competitive with them.
WoW has a real problem in this regard, but let me set some definitions first:
Tier 1 endgame content: Mythic (not plus) dungeons, vendor gear, crafting, LFR, non-rated pvp.
Tier 2 endgame content: Mythic+, normal-mythic raiding, rated pvp.
You exhaust Tier 1 gearing absurdly fast, so that's a non-starter. If you only like that type of content, wow endgame gearing is simply not made for you.
Tier 2 gearing is all built on scaling and/or scheduling and organization. The BiS for mythic+ is absurd. The BiS for normal-heroic raiders is the heroic raiding gear and that leaves normal raiders a bit in the lurch and heroic raiders are generally going to be expected to be doing M+, which actually provides better gear than heroic raiding at the end of the day. Rated PvP players have a very clear system for them, but this is again leaving non-rated PvPers behind. Mythic raiders have a clear goal, but they are a tiny minority of players.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
I prefer WoW because the Pay to Win model is literally advertised. I can buy gold through the in-game store and use that gold to buy heroic runs and get gear funneled to me without ever having any skill. I can't just easier buy gold in other MMO's then use it to buy runs. I love the Activision foundations of being able to buy what I want with zero risk.
You will be fine without the sprout. Even when it is gone just let your party know that your somewhat new, your tank should adjust accordingly. Even when coming back from long breaks and I know I am going to be rusty I give my group a heads up saying that I just came back from a couple month break. I have never seen anything short of "ok" and "you got this" As someone who has main'd tank because of the level 50 pvp armor(I miss when it actually required pvp rank, so glad they made it even cooler for DRK though). As long as I could tell my healer was trying they get my comm every single time and it seems like I usually get the healers comm. It seems to be a toss up who the dps gives theirs to. As long as you continue to play healer you will be drowning in comms. Just be upfront with your group, it goes a long way. Remember you won't be kicked because the tank has to take the run a little slower/the dps knowing they need to be less reckless, the dps do not want to wait in que again looking for another healer.
I'm not new to FFXIV, but what makes it good? My guess would be the mass appeal it has right now.
But I've always enjoyed the final fantasy series. The common elements all the games share always amuses me. The job system in XIV is nice, that way you don't necessarily have to reroll a toon unless you want another race.
Ah, its not so serious. I really meant to just chat about how good the sprout system is in itself (and accidentally overloaded it with personal anecdotes). Plus now that im in Shadowbringers, i get to play with the trust system (very exciting for an anti social player like me). Thank you though for your empathetic responses. Its nice when people want to encourage you.
But coming back to the sprout thing. It really is a wonderful system. I genuinely expected it to be over pretty quickly, but for the game to insist that you be treated as a new player all the way up to the new expansion is an amazing courtesy. It recognises that even if you can run aurum vale at level 47, the mechanical complexity in running group content nevertheless increases and you shouldnt be expected to know how to deal with it in your first time running through it. So the things i like about it are: a) it is a license to mess up a bit. Its also a nice alert to non sprouts that they may need to go a little more gently (without compelling the sprout to out themselves as a noobie). b) it lasts so long... 370 hours according to my steam page. Admittedly 340 hours of that are cut scenes, but still... c) The community are just so welcoming to that little green icon. It makes you feel like you're part of this eco system almost immediately. d) When you lose it, it feels right. Its time for you to take on that mantle of being a long term player and help the new generation of sprouts feel that same level of kindness you received.
Its just such a wonderful system with all these weird (un)intended consequences.
I just did the return to Ivalice questline for the first time....I was blown away by the details and nods and easter eggs they brought from both FFT and FF12...I was speechless. Seriously even the sound tracks the same exactly! I had super fun in those raids. What blow me away the most that the story is basically a continuation of the cliffhanger ending of the original FFT in PS1 which was released in 1997+ era...and that game was one of my favorite of the FF titles...so imagine my feeling when I finally saw how the story continued...so overwhelmed can't even write haha
If we could all sit and talk without demonizing one another and attempt to understand the opposite point of view, the collective world would be a better place. Mental bigotry is the worst of all.
Anyone talking about the gcd hasnt beat arr. Honestly, they're outing themselves. This doesnt make their perspective invalid, class progression genuinely sucks in arr. 'I know it, you know it, everybody knows it.' But i struggle to take their complaints seriously. I want to because of course gameplay wise, arr is a dumpsterfire (and should/will(?) be improved). But if thats all you've got, i know you havent progressed to your job quest. I just know. You are super valid. Im also complaining about this (as are the million or so players wanting to level up extra jobs and spamming a two button rotation for 40 or so levels until shit happens). It sucks. Its a terrible way to introduce the game to new players. I know it, you know it, sqex knows it.
My proposition is this: if they dont fix this post endbringers, we riot. But they aint going to prioritise this right now. Hell, given covid exploding right now in tokyo... if they meet the deadline for launch i will genuinely be amazed.
(i live in that part of the world: Korea should shut down right now for three weeks, but wont because the economy. Japan is... well its exploding. 2020 was a catch up year for industry. 2021 (and delta+++) is a reckoning. Sqex is going to be hurt by this. If you dont think so you arent appraised of the facts. (What wow faced in 2020 sqex will face in 2021). If this expansion arrives on time, either its abusive behaviour or its a miracle. Where are we at right now? 30% when the us/uk is at 65-70%? Korea is at record highs (a mere 1800 cases per day). Japan is (with all its mask wearing culture, just like korea), at 14,000 cases per day. I know this is nothing compared to the US norm. But its terrifying to japan (who have NEVER seen these daily numbers). And there will be measures. And this will impact production. Because of course it will. They wont meet their self imposed deadline. And if they do... im sort of mad at them because they prioritised the game over their devs).
Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-07 at 12:56 PM.
Eh, that depends on the job, really. RDM, BLM, DNC, feel slow even at 80, for example. Then you have a class like DRG, which is more active and oGCD like. MNK feels quick at times, SAM, BRD/MCH others. But even jobs with oGCDs don't exactly spam them for entire rotations, they're on some form of cooldown. Of course there's still a significant difference between jobs and how they feel as a whole when you go from level 1 to level 60. I'd say you can't get a good idea of a job until 60, not 50. Like, I really dislike SCH at 50, and WHM feels so much better after you get to max level in every expansion. A lot of jobs do, for sure.
*Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*
I will happily defer to you. Ive leveled one job to 70 (whm). And its the easiest job in game. (shb spoilers)
i just watched the trailer... 'become the warrior of darkness'... i mean, i knew this was coming, everyone spoils it even with their best intentions... but... but... im still passed out at the crystal tower. This is a fugue state. You are going to have to go some way to convince me otherwise.
Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-07 at 01:20 PM.
Helps that the same writer of those games returned to write that storyline in FF14 :P
- - - Updated - - -
There's quite a lot of supposition here about releasing the expansion vs crunch with no proof behind it. The patches and expansions were already delayed by a few months by Yoshi-P and Square Enix's own admission starting with 5.3 because of covid. The delay already happened.
Last edited by Drindorai; 2021-08-07 at 03:52 PM.
Matsuno can write interesting plots, but he can't write endearing characters if his life depended on it. The only characters in his stuff that were likeable were Al Cid and Larsa from FF12, and Ramza from FFXIV.
Well, I guess Lyon from Bozja was also pretty cool. Now that I think about it, Matsuno's villains tend to be way more interesting and likeable characters than the guys I'm supposed to be playing as and sympathizing with.
Delays just add to my anxiety about EW. There was such a lore dump in ShB I don't see how they can supposedly be wrapping things up in EW. Kick it back an expansion, but I do not want to see things rushed or cut when they've just gotten good.
"We must now recognize that the greatest threat of freedom for us all is if we go back to eating ourselves out from within." - John Anderson
They've already axed most of the storylines in the game. 5.5 MSQ Tensions between the city-states and the beast tribes? Gone. Tempering? Gone. Garlemald? Gone. IVth Legion storyline? Gone. At this point there are only two things left to do (fight blondie and fix the planet) and that can easily be wrapped up in a 20-40 hour long expansion.
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2021-08-07 at 05:08 PM.
Another good thing bout XIV is that community is not fractured. You don't have 5 different version each group of people telling you their "version" (expansion) is better.
I hardly seen discussions like that in xiv which is amazing (Im sure they do exist but its rare from what Ive seen).
I know it's almost like they built up these stories over 4 expansions and have resolved them nicely after years of build up and researching ways for resolution from the characters inside the stories themselves.
Not that you'd know that from Val's posts, considering they constantly act like it was just randomly thrown together at the last minute to hastily resolve plot points.
The one about Tempering always makes me laugh because we've been hearing about how Alisaie specifically has been set on trying to figure it out in order to save Ga Bu since his Tempering in 3.4. And then 2.5 expansions later, after significant work from an in-story perspective to address and solve the problem, they do. But even then they specify that certain levels of Tempering cannot be undone. And people will STILL pretend they randomly just resolved it out of nowhere.
Even stuff like Garlemald collapsing internally instead of being overtaken. That shit has been set up since the very beginning. The infighting, the fracturing, the civil war, hell Emet-Selch literally tells Varis that he 'died' on purpose at the exact time he did so that he could create strife. OF COURSE Garlemald, a militaristic dictatorship that only exists as long as it can conquer, collapses in on itself when its dictator is overthrown by his son, who has no interest in ruling or conquering. Every single thing we know about Garlemald and its rulers makes it super obvious that it was unsustainable and was one or two deaths from splintering from within. It nearly did when 'Solus' 'died.' That was, again, a plot point started in ARR and carried through the rest of the story.
I can't figure out if people are just upset plot points are being resolved and they just want it to be like WoW where nothing ever resolves or if they're just upset that things didn't happen the way they wanted. The way certain people speak about it, it could be either of those two. Every single point they're whining about was very satisfactorily addressed and resolved. So they just pretend stuff was "axed" when the correct word is, 'Resolved.'
Last edited by Drindorai; 2021-08-07 at 05:46 PM.