What's so good about FFXIV?

[Lane]

They've already axed most of the storylines in the game. 5.5 MSQ Tensions between the city-states and the beast tribes? Gone. Tempering? Gone. Garlemald? Gone. IVth Legion storyline? Gone. At this point there are only two things left to do (fight blondie and fix the planet) and that can easily be wrapped up in a 20-40 hour long expansion.

I only care about the Ascians, Hydaelyn & Zodiark, and the ShB reveals regarding those subjects and the WoL. Most of the subjects you listed I've never cared about and were reasons why I couldn't get interested in the ARR story, although, discontinuation of the IVth Legion does suck.

I currently don't care about Zenos either, hopefully they've got something interesting planned for him because I'm as bored with him as he is with everything.

[Thestrawman]

-snip-

To add on to what you said, Garlemald was always disposable. It did it's job, bring about calamities. They were going to be thrown away with the 8th umbral calamity. Just like the allagans and Mhach were before them.

[Wrecktangle]

I think the distinctions exist mostly in grey zone when it comes to encounter design. There are always exceptions to the rule as far as the differences go, but the things I like about FF specifically are:

1. A tendency toward multi-phase bosses.
2. Significant numbers of movement mechanics. In particular, this makes tanking more engaging.
3. A genuine focus on timing mitigation cooldowns for tanking.

Interesting. I actually think there's a ton of room for improving the tanking paradigms. I'd love to see less scripted tank busters (think E7S where who it targets is random, so you can't just sit there and spreadsheet your tank cooldowns), you have to react. I think that's a nice touch. I actually wish CDs were used to help stave off healers struggling, but they're pretty much mandatory to use at very specific times and I find that a little on rails. Ideally I'd love a situation where we have less CDs, but more impactful and shorter CD, with more ways to implement and recharge them (i.e. gauge, rotational, or oGCD usage, etc.).

I honestly would even welcome some action elements for tanking like blocking/parrying being timing oriented, but that's a huge ask with this netcode haha.

Regarding movement mechanics I do wish there was more tanking responsibility for this. Like instead of fixed positions, think of SCoB, where you really had to position the boss frequently and almost dynamically based on the situation/room. I miss those mechanics. Even Alexander had it a bit, but then they shifted to more fully structured and scripted paradigm.

I think the issue is sort of hidden in what you said here. You don't get BiS, you kind of just decide you are good at a certain point. There's nothing at all wrong with feeling that way. However, for a lot of people, being able to target a very tangible, specific BiS is really important. That sense of completion and goal-setting really matters. In FF14, this is really really simply. Whatever content you like, your BiS is 100% obvious, clear, and achievable.

That's kinda what I mean though, why can't people take responsibility for this? Like why does having a BiS actually matter? Why can't they decide healthily enough when they're done? Am I just not being reasonable for thinking people are unhealthy for feeling this way? Like if you can't separate "BiS enough" from "absolute BiS" like it's not a game issue, but a mental health issue?

WoW has a real problem in this regard, but let me set some definitions first:

Tier 1 endgame content: Mythic (not plus) dungeons, vendor gear, crafting, LFR, non-rated pvp.
Tier 2 endgame content: Mythic+, normal-mythic raiding, rated pvp.

You exhaust Tier 1 gearing absurdly fast, so that's a non-starter. If you only like that type of content, wow endgame gearing is simply not made for you.

Tier 2 gearing is all built on scaling and/or scheduling and organization. The BiS for mythic+ is absurd. The BiS for normal-heroic raiders is the heroic raiding gear and that leaves normal raiders a bit in the lurch and heroic raiders are generally going to be expected to be doing M+, which actually provides better gear than heroic raiding at the end of the day. Rated PvP players have a very clear system for them, but this is again leaving non-rated PvPers behind. Mythic raiders have a clear goal, but they are a tiny minority of players.

Agreed wholeheartedly here. Tier 1 has it GREAT in FF14 and honestly I wouldn't want to change that at all, I just don't understand Tier 2 players unhealthy obsession's on BiS.

This is a confusing statement, because the SB/ShB raids also have trash? As someone who has played FF12 and Nier and Automata, I loved all the callbacks to the trash in those raids.

Or did you just mean you liked the trash better in those ARR/HW raids?

No this is my fault for not clarifying when I said "raids". I mean savage raiding, not 24 mans. My apologies. The SB FFT inspired raids were some of my favorite content in the game, but that's because I'm an FFT best FF game fanboi, even though I HATED FF12.

If only there were some ability or 'gem' item that could modify your cooldowns and make everything go faster.......

To be fair, I could stack every possible upgrade/materia in SkS and my GCD goes from 2.5 to 2.25. It's a difference, technically even a noticeable one, but it comes at a huge cost to actual output and doesn't even make the gameplay better, in some cases makes it worse for my job (PLD) because it forces you into overwriting your DoTs before their final tick. That said, having just passive SkS puts you at like 2.3x-2.4x so from 2.25 to that isn't even a noticeable upgrade there.

[kaminaris]

XIV does have its share of, "Things were better in ARR, the game is casual now, everything is too easy, they let just anyone do things now, etc etc"

It's just that depending on where you're looking, you won't see much of anything out of people. The community doesn't have as many raw gameplay-focused community areas as WoW does. But the ones that do exist as just as much of a cesspool. (Hi, Balance discord)

Those specific types of complaints can be safely ignored.

[Drindorai]

To add on to what you said, Garlemald was always disposable. It did it's job, bring about calamities. They were going to be thrown away with the 8th umbral calamity. Just like the allagans and Mhach were before them.

Right, exactly. It gets destroyed off screen by themselves unleashing Black Rose. I am not sure what people were expecting. I find the idea that Garlemald crumpled beneath its own bloat due to infighting pretty damn satisfying considering what a colossal threat it seemed compared to Eorzean Alliance. It was a fate brought on by themselves, along with a few pushes by Emet-Selch. That's a pretty neat storybeat. And they've also been setting up 'good' Garleans for a while as well, so I can't imagine the entire Garlean Empire is just wholly defunct after Endwalker. Gaius' entire arc seems to be screaming "Return to Garlemald and help the people rebuild after the apocalypse as penance for his time as the Black Wolf" considering he didn't die in the Weapon storyline.

- - - Updated - - -

Those specific types of complaints can be safely ignored.

Yeah I was going to add that perhaps these people still do exist, I won't call Bovinity Divinity a liar, but I've never encountered them at any point. Not on the largest reddit, not on the largest discord, nowhere. Perhaps they exist in some niche areas but it's not like WoW where people are constantly bemoaning how X or Y expansion was better and everything is shit now.

Even if that is true (And I mostly think it is), the community still seems to be conflicted about what 3 or 4 expansions are the best. I often see BC, Wrath, Mists of Pandaria, and Legion touted as the best and nobody can agree. I cannot say the same is true of FF14. I don't really see much disagreement that Shadowbringers isn't the best expansion, if any.

[shadowmatrix]

I don't think it's that "people are used to it."

They just realize that there's no difference. (Except one specific case - You cast a cooldown heal too late, and because the person was still alive on your side, it used the cooldown even though it didn't actually heal them, because on the server side they were already dead. Which, I agree, maybe they could at least do something where it doesn't put the skill on cooldown.)

But aside from that one case, there is no difference in result. People can incorrectly complain about things all they want - They are still incorrectly complaining. There's no "weird lag" - The abilities resolve exactly as they should, in the order they were cast and in the order their casts finished.

It being visually weird doesn't mean anything different is happening. All it takes is getting used to.

"I don't think it's that "people are used to it.""
"All it takes is getting used to."

So you disagreed with them just to agree with them? Okay.

[Lane]

I don't really see much disagreement that Shadowbringers isn't the best expansion, if any.

Consensus seems to be Shb>HW>SB>ARR. Although, I did see someone in NN ask about a ShB story skip and I was stunned.

[Drindorai]

Consensus seems to be Shb>HW>SB>ARR. Although, I did see someone in NN ask about a ShB story skip and I was stunned.

Yup that seems to be the case.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Shadowbringers has the overall best baseline MSQ. As for side content and patch MSQ, older expansions beat it out.

[Garretdejiko]

Consensus seems to be Shb>HW>SB>ARR. Although, I did see someone in NN ask about a ShB story skip and I was stunned.

And I fucking loved SB. Haven't started ShB yet, but my hopes are higher now.

[Drindorai]

And I fucking loved SB. Haven't started ShB yet, but my hopes are higher now.

Should be clear that outside of ARR, even though people rank Stormblood the lowest of the current 3 expansion, it's not, "Shadowbringers is good, Heavensward is okay, and Stormblood is bad."

It's more, "Stormblood is good, Heavensward is great, Shadowbringers is phenomenal."

Even ARR is pretty decent. The whole, 'ARR is awful' meme has gotten way out of control. Like some kind of overcompensation by FF14 players to try and convince people to get through it. But it establishes a lot of the world building that makes the pay offs of the expansion good. And isn't that bad in its own right.

[Drindorai]

I don't know. I've said many times that I honestly feel like the entire story could start right around the end of ARR and still be fine. You honestly don't NEED those hours upon hours upon hours of, "Hey, this is what a primal is."

I mean there's so, so much more than just that in ARR. It sets up the entire world. All the main city states, the main power players, even places like Gyr Abania, Ala Mhigo, Coerthas, Dravania, Nidhogg, the Holy See, even far eastern stuff like Doma. All of that is in ARR. Because when those things are brought up again, the game doesn't explain the same thing you were already told UNLESS it's adding in more, new, information more relevant to the current plotline going on.

I disagree entirely that going around and meeting all the major characters in the story, many of which are very much still relevant to this day, was pointless. That's like WoW where characters act like Chuck E Cheese animatronics where they're completely inactive unless the story is directly involving them. FF14 does not feel like that. When the Admiral or Kan-E-Senna shows up, it feels like they're alive and part of the world. Not Wrathion showing up in Stormwind after being completely confusingly absent for two major plotpoints he was previously involved in but not the most recent one.

Or setting up various facets of how the Ascians work as a group. Or stuff like the Crystal Tower.

There's so many things ARR sets up that pays off in future expansions because they feel like established locations in the world instead of random new things asspulled the patch that its relevant. Like the Infinity Stones---errr, the Sigils, in 9.1. If that was FF14, you'd know about those dumbass sigils from like Legion, at least.

I really like FF4 but I'm not going to pretend that it's not a pretty simplistic story that doesn't need a lot of information given because everything is rather obvious outside of very, very late game reveals about Cecil and another character. It's not that comparable. It's efficient because it's simplistic. Which is fine. Like I said, I really like FF4. But FF14's world is a lot more complex.

To be honest I can't even imagine a comparable situation to FF4, what would you prefer?

Urianger just sitting down and saying:

"This is what Primals are"
"This is what Ascians are"
"This is what Limsa Lominsa is"
"This is what Gridania is."
"This is what Ul'dah is"
"This is what the Garlean Empire is"
"This is what Ala Mhigo is"
"This is what Doma is"
"This is who the Scions are"
"This is how the elements work"
"This is how the world and its shards work"

???

It's an exhausting list and all of these things are eventually relevant to the plot. I'm not even through all the stuff they introduce in ARR. It's called world building for a reason. It's especially good when essentially all of it is brought up later on through locations, or characters from locations, or plotpoints at those locations, or references to plot advancing at those locations, throughout the entire game. They ease you into the ideas and then keep expanding them or adding more.

I've always found it rather impressive. It's why, while there are FFXIV lore youtubers, you don't really need them unless you forgot something. Or are curious about super niche things that, while interesting, aren't entirely necessary to know about the world, and not knowing it isn't a detriment to your experience. If you just pay attention the entire time you will know what is going on. You don't need to read or watch seventeen outside materials to understand what characters are doing and why.

Apparently Jesse Cox is doing a video for people who want to skip ARR's story and I'm curious what he deems important information to know or not. Not that I'd immediately agree with him, but as a newer player as well, like him, I'd be interested in his opinion about what he feels is relevant and what is not. Because I've felt pretty much everything in ARR introduced storywise was relevant at some point.

[shadowmatrix]

And I fucking loved SB. Haven't started ShB yet, but my hopes are higher now.

Always keep your expectations grounded, a story one person loves can be hated by someone else. A streamer I watch loves Shadowbringers but hated the overall story of Stormblood so much they quit the game because of it.

[Drindorai]

Always keep your expectations grounded, a story one person loves can be hated by someone else. A streamer I watch loves Shadowbringers but hated the overall story of Stormblood so much they quit the game because of it.

Wha...what?

I assume you meant to flip the two games because I don't know how you could quit in Stormblood but then love Shadowbringers since you...have to play Stormblood to even get to Shadowbringers.

I would seriously question a person if they loved Stormblood and hated Shadowbringers. I like Stormblood and think it's better than most people give it credit for, but to love Stormblood and hate Shadowbringers? I've never heard that before lol. Not even people being intentionally contrarian.

[Daffan]

- HUD Layout: Its the first game were I'm actually able to put all the items on my screen in the order i want and in the size i want. I love this feature

You must think WoW devs are geniuses than! because of the API and LUA allowances.

I have to ask wth you think customization is then, because you can literally change the bars from a 1x12 to 2x6, 3x4, 4x3, 6x2, and 12x1 layout. You can actively turn whichever bar you want on or off, modify the size of each bar, move them wherever you want, turn the chat window completely off as well as the map, make collapsible hotbars, and arrange them however you want. Literally everything can be adjusted. What exactly is customization to you?

I've seen FFXIV UI remade inside WOW that looks better and functions better. That's the type of customization they are talking about.



https://www.reddit.com/r/WowUI/comme..._instructions/

I personally don't make anything so extreme, but being able to do anything is a big boon for me.

The party/raid frames in FFXIV are enough by itself to make you vomit, and that's because I have to put them center-ish and not in corner like tank/dps people who never see them.

[shadowmatrix]

Wha...what?

I assume you meant to flip the two games because I don't know how you could quit in Stormblood but then love Shadowbringers since you...have to play Stormblood to even get to Shadowbringers.

I would seriously question a person if they loved Stormblood and hated Shadowbringers. I like Stormblood and think it's better than most people give it credit for, but to love Stormblood and hate Shadowbringers? I've never heard that before lol. Not even people being intentionally contrarian.

Their breaking in the Stormblood storyline was towards the final patches so they were able to force themselves past their dislike and power through knowing it got better.

[everydaygamer]

Shadowbringers has the overall best baseline MSQ. As for side content and patch MSQ, older expansions beat it out.

True but considering the pandemic not sure how fair it is to hold that against the expansion.

[Kuntantee]

I gave it a go. The art style and class design isn't for me and for a "story-driven" game, I found the introduction to be extremely boring.

[Bigcountry11782]

There is an abundance of good content, the community while strange at sometimes is a good community, the dungeons/raids/trials are all done very well. The story and locations you go to are also i big plus for me.

[Paperfox]

For sprouts like me, there is the Novice Network - a chat channel dedicated to newbies where they can ask questions to a bunch of long term players. Just great. The only time you don't have access to it is during a cutscene.