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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    I'm just wondering, with seeing some of the most vehement boycotters/grandstanders on social media... How are they certain they are not supporting similar structures elsewhere?

    Sure, the devil you know is one you can call out and stop visiting, but this shit (and worse) extends far in the gaming industry as well as outside it. Is there some sort of website that lists completely ethical companies producing goods and entertainment?

    Just a small thought that popped into my head as I saw someone call WoW players keeping up their sub "Literal Nazis"...
    This is very confusing - we deal with the information we have, and this information is very damming. I typically ignore the twitter claims, especially from ex-employees, and especially when it is just one person - not because I automatically dont believe anything anyone says, but because my threshold is a little higher than some random person making random accusations on twitter. This is very different, and if their name is completely cleared of any serious wrongdoing, and the product they produce improves, I am happy to go back to supporting them.

    As it stands, their products do not meet a high enough standard for me, and this is just the cherry on the top of the shitshow that is 2021 acti-blizz.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the government has a duty and purpose to protect employee's and if that isn't enough (clearly) then they need to unionize. do what you wish, if you don't want to give money to blizzard don't. this isn't an issue with Blizzard this is an issue with the games industry as a whole. from AAA game publishers to indie devs there have been stories of sexual abuse that rarely go answered. this might suck to hear but there isn't a simple solution to the problem. hopefully this is the catalyst people need to finally unionize and demand better wages, hours and treatment. pressure from the outside rarely if ever does the job.
    No, actually, an employer has that responsibly, and the government only becomes involved if they have failed at that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sites have their own audiences with their own specialized opinion makers.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Four days in? People bitching on twitter and signing petitions instead of doing their jobs.
    You're probably not wrong there.
    From my experience, most companies try to keep things 'business as usual' while they're getting sued because it can lead to the horse bolting if you don't handle it well (like we're seeing now).

    That said if blizzard employees want to throw an end of the world party in their office that's fine by me, blizzard has been a total shitshow for years and this lawsuit is just the cherry glase on top.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Where does the spark for change start? It's not outrageous to ask that people research a product/business before supporting it financially. If the average consumer made a conscious effort to end support for a shitty company here and there, we'd all be much better for it.
    Nobody is going to sit around and make sure their new sink they're buying wasn't made with some materials imported from China, or that the CEO of Sinks R Us didn't say something they didn't like on Twitter a decade ago.

    My point stands.

    Also, if everyone did boycott Blizzard, all of those devs you seem to care so much about would lose their jobs. I don't wish that for them, or anyone else.
    Last edited by Sithalos; 2021-07-27 at 12:00 AM.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Did you even read what i wrote? I outlined my stance VERY CLEARLY. Give me ONE reason why i should continue to financially support a company that treats its staff this way, and then tries to shift the blame on to the paying customers. ONE REASON.
    If that's your stance, I agree with you entirely. Your initial post wasn't clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    That's comparable to blaming people for not being disgusted while eating a chocolate bar they just bought, just because someone out there is picking cocoa beans for $1 a day.
    Pay disparity is one thing, sexual harassment is another. If Cadbury's turned out to be shoving sexual harassment of said bean pickers under the rug just to keep their reputation squeaky clean, you be damn well sure that I'll not be a paying customer of theirs. It's abhorrent behaviour.

  5. #285
    The Lightbringer Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    If you don't think paying a company supports their policies and practices, I don't know how much further we can take this discussion.
    Damn, we got caught! You exposed us evil gamers!! it was our intention all these years for blizz employees to have a bad time.
    Anyone who pays for a game n expects a good game is really a bad guy!

    You just come off as some gloating final fantasy 14 player who is just cheering for unsub

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    I'm just wondering, with seeing some of the most vehement boycotters/grandstanders on social media... How are they certain they are not supporting similar structures elsewhere?
    They don't care enough to notice or forget about it when the new thing to rage at appears.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Where does the spark for change start? It's not outrageous to ask that people research a product/business before supporting it financially. If the average consumer made a conscious effort to end support for a shitty company here and there, we'd all be much better for it.
    Does that spark matter when it's not enough to create a fire, though? Sure, a lot more people this day and age are making the conscious decisions to not support horrible companies. But, equally (and not at all a joke) more and more people are being born into this world who do support horrible practices (either knowingly or not). Obviously it's rhetorical: Yes it matters. But the latter is something that doesn't help at all.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    You're probably not wrong there.
    From my experience, most companies try to keep things 'business as usual' while they're getting sued because it can lead to the horse bolting if you don't handle it well (like we're seeing now).

    That said if blizzard employees want to throw an end of the world party in their office that's fine by me, blizzard has been a total shitshow for years and this lawsuit is just the cherry glase on top.
    It shows the degree to which they lack internal cohesion and organisation. To be so inept that what are anywhere between a fifth to half your employees are directly contradicting your company line and proudly claiming they won't do what they're hired for says a lot about both your hiring practices and about the environment you've constructed. To be hoisted by your own petard after performatively cheering on every culture war issue you can get your hands on and throwing anyone accused of even the most specious offense under the bus also couldn't have happened to a nicer company.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Saving this post for 1 year into the future.
    I mean sure, but WoW is already a shell of what it used to be. Out of the last four expansions, WoD, Legion, BFA, SL, there’s only been one good one; Legion. And Legion even had Artifact grinding, and Relics, which I couldn’t stand, but compared to the other three it blows them out of the water.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    No, actually, an employer has that responsibly, and the government only becomes involved if they have failed at that.
    are you responding to the right person? because I clearly said this is a failing of the company and the government needs to step in. and again if people unionized that would be a net benefit for everyone expect maybe the shareholders, but fuck them.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    No one is asking anyone to sympathise with perpetrators or enablers.
    Except apparently their "welfare" is of paramount import right now, since it's a fair bet the majority of the company is at least somewhat complicit in what happened. And don't give me that rubbish about not having the moral fortitude to bring it up. If you knew it was happening but didn't say anything for whatever reason, then it wasn't obviously a big enough deal. It's a bit too late to act outraged from within the company now. Anybody who isn't painfully naive can see how hollow it rings.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    I mean sure, but WoW is already a shell of what it used to be. Out of the last four expansions, WoD, Legion, BFA, SL, there’s only been one good one; Legion.
    Subjective and far removed from how the game performs financially.

    I'm talking literal death, shutting down, of the game, not feefees about which expansion was good or not.

  13. #293
    Pit Lord Mrbleedinggums's Avatar
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    People hating on WoW beforehand are just riding this to make WoW fail. You people seem to forget that the game ISNT just the executives, but thousands of Blizzard employees that clearly want a change. You want WoW to fail because you hate the game? Congrats, you're actively wanting to take the jobs of thousands of people because you're too stupid to see the forest for the trees.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    I truly believe this is the end of WoW's life. I mean seriously as both a long time member of this sub and scrolling through all the "wow is dead/dying, this will kill wow etc." I think for real this time.
    I hate to say it, and i usually stay out of things like this and let it all play out, but i think this is the end of my beloved WoW....I will miss the game, but in all honesty ive been hanging on to an aging old mule that lost its usefulness years ago....its just really been nostalgia keeping me around, and a hope for something better again.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I think WoW is done. Previously they had tried to time the releases of WoW patches to coincide with and smother the patch and expansions releases of their rivals (during the past few years, namely FFXIV), but now they'll have nothing to counter 6.0 Endwalker with. Perhaps not even the first few patches of FFXIV 6.X. There is also no Wrath classic anywhere in sight too (like how WoW tried to line up BC classic's release with FFXIV 5.5). And once Endwalker 6.0 comes out, FFXIV will be back to releasing a patch once every 3.5 months.

    Also doesn't help that Blizzard staff has be insulting their customers nonstop for the past few years, but this time they don't even have a product to show for it.

    Blizzard was the WoW killer.
    i dont give a shit about ff 14

  16. #296
    Dreadlord Femininity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sithalos View Post
    My point stands.
    We have that in common.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Anyone who pays for a game n expects a good game is really a bad guy!
    Only if you're consciously making the decision to support their terrible practices.

    You just come off as some gloating final fantasy 14 player who is just cheering for unsub
    You're projecting pretty hard here. I've subbed to WoW since the last time I subbed to FFXIV.

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    Does that spark matter when it's not enough to create a fire, though? Sure, a lot more people this day and age are making the conscious decisions to not support horrible companies. But, equally (and not at all a joke) more and more people are being born into this world who do support horrible practices (either knowingly or not). Obviously it's rhetorical: Yes it matters. But the latter is something that doesn't help at all.
    I'm not a nihilist, so I'll continue to do my part for the betterment of the world we all share.
    Remember: Words are not violence.
    Stay out of my DMs.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrbleedinggums View Post
    People hating on WoW beforehand are just riding this to make WoW fail. You people seem to forget that the game ISNT just the executives, but thousands of Blizzard employees that clearly want a change. You want WoW to fail because you hate the game? Congrats, you're actively wanting to take the jobs of thousands of people because you're too stupid to see the forest for the trees.
    In the end I'm willing to bet they won't be proven more correct now than they were during the other 10 scandals, one of which being an expansion that literally had no work done on it past 1 patch.

  18. #298
    Why ain’t anyone asking for Bobby Kotick and executives to resign or be fired or are they all too shit scared off their jobs?

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Subjective and far removed from how the game performs financially.

    I'm talking literal death, shutting down, of the game, not feefees about which expansion was good or not.
    Oh that won’t happen until there’s like 100 players left, because they could just turn off all the servers except one and treat it like Classic; maintenance mode. Dead doesn’t mean no one playing, it means so few people playing it feels dead. Running around the world and seeing no one or very few people.

    They turned off RuneScape Classic not too long ago because it only had a handful of people still playing it.
    Last edited by muto; 2021-07-27 at 12:04 AM.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Ain't that the truth. It's almost like someone is running a social experiment, mind you.

    In the last 18 months or so, different world events have resulted in a litany of sociopaths on MMO Champ being outed.

    The BLM protests brought out the racists, the pandemic brought out the conspiracy theorists, the Jan 6 riots brought out the fascists. Now this.
    Eh, I don't think this really "brought them out" - It's already been well-known how a lot of MMO-C users are. I guess this just makes it even more obvious and apparent, though.

    Human decency isn't a particularly common trait that people have here.

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