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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    It isn't toxic entitlement. It's a legitimate question about what we can expect for the same amount of fee, which we're paying the company that employs them, now that they're taking time off the projects to process internal issues.

    I wish them all the success, but if it means that product that I'm purchasing won't receive any further updates and support till they've solved their issues, I'll cancel my sub. I'm very pragmatic about this.

    His statement basically said two things:

    Until we solve our problems, dev is frozen.
    If you got a problem with that, you're part of the problem.

    The problem isn't that they freeze, the problem is that all who complain because they have certain expectations about the return of their spendings are framed as part of the problem. That's inane.

    And I certainly don't enjoy being called names by developers who cry wolf now after being years part of what apparently is an openly toxic environment. Unless you've spent all your time as a hermit developer there's isn't a chance in hell you didn't know how your peers behave.

    You know what would have been better?

    Hi guys, were freezing development until we solve our issues. We suggest you also freeze your sub until blizzard finally implements actual changes. Support us!

    Boy he would have gathered so many followers. But he chose the toxic approach instead, shaming everyone around him. Go figure
    This is all a load of BS and you continue to misrepresent his words. What he said was that anyone who whines to the developers about content and thinks that is more important than those that have been hurt, you are part of the problem. What you fail to understand is that those that have been hurt are wroking on content. You are basically telling those people "I don't care that you were hurt,get back to making muh content". that is down right insulting and insensitive. But you only care about yourself. Go figure.

  2. #702
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    I unsubbed due to burnout months ago, looks like it was meant to be as the wheels are finally falling off, ironically due to gross internal behaviors rather than the actual game's performance. It's hard to see them coming back from this. The company's reputation will suffer a big blow, and devalue the IP's to do with it. Mickey Mouse is licking his chops right now. I really hope Disney buys Blizzard.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    No,. it's not literally what he said. What he was referring to was that if you are complaining to Blizzard developers about where contenbt is when they are trying to process what has happened, youa re part of the problem. You absolutely are twisting words.And you are proving his point. he and the rest are ytrying top process and work on these issues and you are screaming at him to do his job. You are the one who needs to work on his reading skills. You continue to interpret something that isn't there.

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    Tbhanks for porving his point. Ignore what is happening, give mer my content, right? The entitlement here is toxic.

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    NOt what he said at all! When will you people stop twisting his words? It is beyond dishonest and proves his point.
    You are part of the problem. Get off your high horse.

    We are consumers first. Blizzard should deal with their problems but it should NOT impact their product. If that concept is too difficult for you to understand then you're beyond help.

    And I bet Alex Klontzas and his team are extremely happy with the timing of this lawsuit. He basically went on Twitter to blame everything on this lawsuit. He also implied that the next patch will be just as bad and it won't be coming anytime soon because "muh human decency and respect". This was a convenient scapegoat for his failures.

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    You are part of the problem. Get off your high horse.

    We are consumers first. Blizzard should deal with their problems but it should NOT impact their product. If that concept is too difficult for you to understand then you're beyond help.

    And I bet Alex Klontzas and his team are extremely happy with the timing of this lawsuit. He basically went on Twitter to blame everything on this lawsuit. He also implied that the next patch will be just as bad and it won't be coming anytime soon because "muh human decency and respect". This was a convenient scapegoat for his failures.
    Calling out liars and disingenuous posts makes me "paret of the problem"?

    Youa re completely tone deaf. People who were working on the game were among the victims. Tell me again how that should not impact the game? The fact that you cannot see that you are telling victims of abuse to get over themsvlkes and produce "muh content" because you have massive selfishness and entitlement proves Alex's point. On top of it, you completely misrepresent his words to the point of blatantly lying.

    The one who needs to get off their high horse is you. The fact that you think the victims of abuse should be bowing to you over their own health is disgusting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I unsubbed due to burnout months ago, looks like it was meant to be as the wheels are finally falling off, ironically due to gross internal behaviors rather than the actual game's performance. It's hard to see them coming back from this. The company's reputation will suffer a big blow, and devalue the IP's to do with it. Mickey Mouse is licking his chops right now. I really hope Disney buys Blizzard.
    Not going to happen. This company will come back. It will happen very slowly, but they will come back.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    We are consumers first. Blizzard should deal with their problems but it should NOT impact their product. If that concept is too difficult for you to understand then you're beyond help.
    Yeah, that's pure bullshit. Problems happen, and sometimes in order to get things back on track a company's output will temporarily suffer. Obviously it isn't ideal, but at times it has to be done. Saying "the product comes before everything" is not a good way of running a business as it will invariably lead to short cuts that undermine other aspects within the company.

    Complying with the investigation and ensuring a safe working environment for their employees SHOULD come before working on updates that weren't even close to release. Blizzard hasn't suspended access to the game and they haven't said there will never be more updates or expansions. Everyone is still receiving exactly what their subscription requires.

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    You are part of the problem. Get off your high horse.

    We are consumers first. Blizzard should deal with their problems but it should NOT impact their product. If that concept is too difficult for you to understand then you're beyond help.

    And I bet Alex Klontzas and his team are extremely happy with the timing of this lawsuit. He basically went on Twitter to blame everything on this lawsuit. He also implied that the next patch will be just as bad and it won't be coming anytime soon because "muh human decency and respect". This was a convenient scapegoat for his failures.
    If your response to the current problems at Blizzard is to say "Yeah yeah whatever, when am I getting more content?" YOU are part of the problem.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    And this would likely be done by diverting budget from Blizzard to other divisions of ATVI.

    If things get dysfunctional enough at Blizzard, it just gets amputated.
    Blizzard basically deserve to crash and burn. But it wont. HS and OW generates too much bling for hobbit.

  8. #708
    Mechagnome Raysz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Nice round of whataboutism, there.
    I called people out for being hypocrites, do enlighten me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    You can do all that and still be an ass hole who leaves the world a worse place.
    Yes, at least I did my part. What did you do?

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    This is all a load of BS and you continue to misrepresent his words. What he said was that anyone who whines to the developers about content and thinks that is more important than those that have been hurt, you are part of the problem. What you fail to understand is that those that have been hurt are wroking on content. You are basically telling those people "I don't care that you were hurt,get back to making muh content". that is down right insulting and insensitive. But you only care about yourself. Go figure.
    Lol how hypocritical of you. Totally not misinterpreting what I said. I don't care about content more than their wellbeing. But I guess you feel like you want to continue being toxic.

    Or maybe you don't know that his tweet followed a statement that said basically all work on wow has been halted, and that he's jumping at the throats of those who think that maybe, just maybe, we're paying the full price for not "the full product".

    I wouldn't even address this at the developers but directly at blizzard. It's their fault that devs had to stop working because working conditions seem to be so abhorrent. Then why is there an expectation to continue to pay them?

    What about yourself? Have you quit your sub already or is your simpathy only going so far?

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    Lol how hypocritical of you. Totally not misinterpreting what I said. I don't care about content more than their wellbeing. But I guess you feel like you want to continue being toxic.

    Or maybe you don't know that his tweet followed a statement that said basically all work on wow has been halted, and that he's jumping at the throats of those who think that maybe, just maybe, we're paying the full price for not "the full product".

    I wouldn't even address this at the developers but directly at blizzard. It's their fault that devs had to stop working because working conditions seem to be so abhorrent. Then why is there an expectation to continue to pay them?

    What about yourself? Have you quit your sub already or is your simpathy only going so far?
    Why is there an expectation to pay whom?

  11. #711
    Mechagnome Raysz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antherios View Post
    That's a terrible logic that I see people around here spreading to try to defend their sunk cost fallacy.

    With that logic anyone that ever bought an Iphone or clothes in the West should just stop trying to be better and demand better services, as we already used products that came from child labor. Can you imagine what kind of society we would get?

    "Oh I already supported this terrible thing! In order to not look like a hypocrite Ill just support ALL terrible things!"
    Why stop trying? If you're so adamant about social justice, follow through. I know, it's difficult, you like your products that are made in third world countries, very inconvenient to fault that. You don't care about the working conditions there, obviously. The society we would have is one where we focus less on consumerism and more on well-being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Sorry, but all the things you've mentioned don't change world injustice, not even a little bit. And you are perfectly aware of that, aren't you? So much for not being a hypocrite. The solution to the problems of the world isn't about "living like an Amish", as someone said earlier, but actively trying to improve other people's lives, e.g. harassed women at Blizzard. I can't do a great deal for people being brutally exploited in sweatshops in Bangla Desh or some other random third world country, unfortunately. And no, you don't buying those clothes doesn't change their crappy situation in the slightest, so it's perhaps time to do something different.
    It does though, bit surprised you're not getting that. It's all about consuming less and paying and valueing a product more. You can't do a great deal, but a lot of people can.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Why is there an expectation to pay whom?
    Yes exactly

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    Yes exactly
    No I’m asking. Who did you refer to?

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    No I’m asking. Who did you refer to?
    Might have misworded that on a second read. My point is that there can't be any expectations to pay for the sub if they quit internal work on the game temporarily. Just as a general statement. Likewise, if one chooses to continue to pay to play the game regardless, their concerns about lack or delay of content due to the circumstances do not equal misogyny.

    But I'm probably not allowed to be understanding of all sides. Gotta pick a side and cheer for only one team I guess.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    Might have misworded that on a second read. My point is that there can't be any expectations to pay for the sub if they quit internal work on the game temporarily. Just as a general statement. Likewise, if one chooses to continue to pay to play the game regardless, their concerns about lack or delay of content due to the circumstances do not equal misogyny.

    But I'm probably not allowed to be understanding of all sides. Gotta pick a side and cheer for only one team I guess.
    1. I think it’s unrealistic to expect players to be totally fine with no work being done on the game during this period.

    2. That said, I think it’s wrong to blame the developers at floor level at that point. Management should grow a bone and freeze subs.

    3. It’s understandable if players are frustrated at what’s happening regarding stalled development, but they should be smarter and realise the developers who are struggling to work through this time aren’t doing it for a giggle. There’s serious issues at the company. Being angry at floor level or even mid level devs is like being angry at employees on strike due to poor working conditions. The real culprits are up top.

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by Raysz View Post
    I called people out for being hypocrites, do enlighten me.

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    Yes, at least I did my part. What did you do?
    My part but I also dont go out of my way to defend sex pests.

    Best of both worlds

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I knew what strange people post here in these forums. But after reading the comment section I'm shocked.
    An explanation would be that most people here are insecure teenage boys who prbly don't had much contact to females and if they did got rejected. This is ofc just a guess but I have no explanation for stuff like this. Incredible... I'm so glad I've reduced my in-game social contact to a bare minimum
    From my experience the gaming community has small % of creeps but big % of enablers and silent approvers which makes creeps thrive and look like there's more of them than there really is. It's not even about the harassment / creeping (fairly rare) it's about how the community perceives it as "no big deal" (extremely common).

    It's the same as with toxic people, rude people, people using slurs and hate speech - if the community perceives it as "no big deal" it becomes normalized. And people who protest against it become stigmatized ("oversensitive babies", "soyboys", "pussys", "entitled generation", "offended SJW" etc. etc.) so the "approved" reaction is to stay silent. And then people go "why nobody spoke up?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    There was a fantasy/SF author I enjoyed, until it came out about her and her husband being involved in some horrific stuff (he ended up in prison for child molestation, where he died.) When I heard about that, her books went in the recycling bin -- I didn't want anyone else to be exposed to them at a used book store.
    Not the first time, not the last. 1-2 years ago there was another scandal with sexual harassment where some people from the movie industry (including one of the actors from the Expanse tv show) and some writers (including the son of the woman who created Outlander series) were exposed to be involved in inappropriate conduct. Oh, and the head of French publishing house for SFF was a harasser too. Not mentioning the story of Ubisoft leadership.

    People who either have power, or are put on a pedestal (like actors or writers) without being held accountable if they misbehave, start believing they can do anything without any backlash and while 9 out of 10 won't abuse this privilege, a small portion will.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post

    And I bet Alex Klontzas and his team are extremely happy with the timing of this lawsuit. He basically went on Twitter to blame everything on this lawsuit. He also implied that the next patch will be just as bad and it won't be coming anytime soon because "muh human decency and respect". This was a convenient scapegoat for his failures.
    I can see that you too already know what/whom they're going to blame... for delivering another underperforming update to the game.

    "We couldn't make it better because we were busy getting paid for walking out of the office. We walked out to stand in solidarity with our colleagues whom we've witnessed being harassed for a decade. If you don't understand this, you're part of the problem!"

    Then they're going to release the next 6-month subscription package with a new mount.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-07-29 at 02:34 PM.

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