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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeznuts View Post
    The stupidity of the options for weekly chest, if you are a regular Heroic raider at this point
    -239 Dom socketed option loot
    -252 weapon or something 13 ilvls higher than raid loot.

    There needs to be a solution to this, at least give us the option for raid pieces and M+ dungeon at this point. The inequality of H raid vs 4 easy completions of 15s is astounding.
    the answer is

    a) sim it
    b)take weapon unless you already have weapon
    c)dom sockets are in most cases pretty garbage anyway

    also blizz give me that 252 weapon because for now im clearing 15s with 216 one and im angry at myself that i as to lazy last season to farm that additional 1000 vp to get it to 220 i can not get a single dom socket piece whole season just gimme 252 weapon today

  2. #22
    the problem is also about the balance between raiding and m+, heroic raiding for most people is much harder than just finishing a few +15 specially on fortified weeks

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Blizz has stated numerous times, as a design goal, highest item level(4+ afaik) should ALWAYS be the right choice. Thats what they say and what they want themselves. So it definitely is a real issue.
    Them claiming that doesn't force reality to conform to it. If item B is better than item A, it will still be better regardless of what words blizzard says.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Them claiming that doesn't force reality to conform to it. If item B is better than item A, it will still be better regardless of what words blizzard says.
    It has been true this whole expansion, maybe you missed how they gutted secondary stats and made them pretty much "useless" and always equip highest ilvl regardless of stats, also how they forced it with high DR on them... They did all that because they want ilvl to be king.
    Them fucking up tuning on essentially set bonuses? Yeh, nothing new and has been happening for decades now.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Keashaa View Post
    Hey look, an elitist. 15s are so easy, even my dead grandmother does them +3.
    WTF is wrong with you?
    15s are not objectively easy. But they are way easier than mythic raids, which they share the weekly vault ilvl with. Because you can clear a +15 on your own terms, you don't have to time it. Also you only need only 5 good players, not 20. And you only need to do 1 15 key, not 3 bosses to get a vault drop at all.

    So yes, getting a weekly upgrade from m+ is way easier than to get it from raids. My raid is wiping in normal (okay, we try to carry a few bodies, but still), but I time +12 keys easily and can do +15 as well, just not in time. Normal raid drops 226 ilvl (well, if something drops^^), my weekly chest item is 20+ ilvls higher than that.
    I don't know why only m+ gets a +13 ilvl upgrade. Raids should do as well, just maybe capped at mythic ilvl.

  6. #26

  7. #27
    Epic! Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    the answer is

    a) sim it
    b)take weapon unless you already have weapon
    c)dom sockets are in most cases pretty garbage anyway
    I would like to add that dom sockets are only really that good in very niche circumstances like getting the 3rd socket to enable the shard bonus (assuming you already have the shards) and you gearing method is for raiding/torghast/maw activities.

    If you're gearing for M+ then Kamuimac is correct, dom sockets are not as useful when you can't get the shard set bonus. Also if the "accidental" nerf to shard bonus is really planned for future time, then dom sockets are then further devalued.
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  8. #28
    As a "casual" heroic raider I'm quite disappointed. My hardcore guildmates have way better equipment through 5-man mythic dungeons. They don't actually NEED to raid at all. And while I don't have the time or the "network" to do 5-mans on a regular basis, I feel that I will never stand a chance in our heroic raiding environment, where MY personal loot comes from. And I think raids on a "heroic" level should indeed yield some useful, semi-competitive loot, even if it's not the elite mode among difficulty levels.
    Last edited by noctim2; 2021-07-29 at 02:19 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    I would like to add that dom sockets are only really that good in very niche circumstances like getting the 3rd socket to enable the shard bonus (assuming you already have the shards) and you gearing method is for raiding/torghast/maw activities.

    If you're gearing for M+ then Kamuimac is correct, dom sockets are not as useful when you can't get the shard set bonus. Also if the "accidental" nerf to shard bonus is really planned for future time, then dom sockets are then further devalued.
    Even just the gems themselves are worth a lot of item levels, especially in m+. The frost dps one is 3% dps for 20 sec whenever you hit a new target.. You do that a lot. The unholy one is just flat damage that quickly scales up. The blood is a 3% execute that (generally) works when the target is below 50% health..

    And then there's the utility gems that can save your healer a lot of mana.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by noctim2 View Post
    As a "casual" heroic raider I'm quite disappointed. My hardcore guildmates have way better equipment through 5-man mythic dungeons. They don't actually NEED to raid at all. And while I don't have the time or the "network" to do 5-mans on a regular basis, I feel that I will never stand a chance in our heroic raiding environment, where MY personal loot comes from. And I think raids on a "heroic" level should indeed yield some useful, semi-competitive loot, even if it's not the elite mode among difficulty levels.
    They don't have better than heroic raid loot in that many slots.
    They drop 236 baseline. Upgradeable with a weekly cap to 246, with a single weekly 252.

    So if they are even kinda smart about it, they'd have 5 or 6 slots above what you can get from the first 8 bosses, and 3 above what you get from the last 2.

    And that's not counting that domination shards are still worth equipping at 239 over 252 in 95% of cases even in m+

  10. #30
    I think they should probably make M+ award 252 ilvl items weekly from +18s or such.

    Now, I personally don't mind much free 252 loot from easy M+15s runs in vault, but I do think there is a disbalance between HC and M+ when it comes to vault. Now not to say HC is really some insane difficulty, but M+15 can be legit done by a bunch of pepegas at the moment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But then it can also be a point of giving players a bit more candy. One random(-ish) 252 item per week for doing relatively tame challenge available for a good chunk of playerbase is, IMO, ok gesture - gives people who are not running with premades a chance to have decent set of stuff over a considerable period of time.

    So yeah, don't mind it like now either.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Now not to say HC is really some insane difficulty, but M+15 can be legit done by a bunch of pepegas at the moment.
    If raiding would use the same filtering metrics as what people in M+ are using, you would get some very easy random HC clearing groups aswell. But raiding in the slightly easier difficulty is and will allways be the gutter for PVE players, because only a very small part of the raid group have to perform good and most of the time you only need the headcount, the individual performance is rarely needed.

    If M+ allows a good enough gearing path, people will clearly choose it above raiding - just look at the raiding participation. Not having to block your free time for a raid schedule and play when ever you want is still a valid reason to neglect raiding and just use M+ for gearprogression in PvE. Gems wont make a difference.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    but M+15 can be legit done by a bunch of pepegas at the moment.
    I agree, but I also know that 50% of the raiders in my guild who are 6/10H can't actually time a M15. I know that isn't a requirement, but they aren't able to consistently complete a weekly M15 b/c they lack the keys to form their own groups. I carried a full guild group yesterday in HoA which I know isn't an easy one to time, but I do not think the majority of the player base is capable of consistently completing / timing M15s.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Keashaa View Post
    Hey look, an elitist. 15s are so easy, even my dead grandmother does them +3.
    WTF is wrong with you?
    Compared to HC bosses it is... and you don't even need to time them to get weekly loot.

  14. #34
    For players who can't time M15s and therefore never have a 15 key each week, getting into PUGs is not easy. My guild is 6/10H, and half of the raiders, including several healers, fail to complete one weekly M15.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbyfists View Post
    People like to point out its BETTER THAN BFA AND LEGION!!!!

    No. No it is not.

    Granted you have 3 options you can work toward, but its still random. However Legion and BFA had a better system because you could get a Weekly PVP chest, and a Weekly Mythic + chest

    With the Vault, we get more options, but less items overall.

    Funny enough, on the Beta, it was set up so you could have one of each option. It was meant to encourage you to do all the content the game had to offer, but it was ultimately scrapped for the current system we had now because of Ion's excuse that "LOOT SHOULD BE MORE MEANINGFUL" when in reality it was done to slow down the Mythic raid guilds.
    i agree with this NOTHING can be worse than having 6 options only to find out that 3 of them are trinkets 2 are your lego slot and 1s a back that's a waste of almost half of the vault, the crap needs fixed, not just mythic raiding guild hc guilds also suffer form that decission
    Last edited by thunderdragon2; 2021-08-01 at 04:47 PM.

  16. #36
    I agree that it totally sucks when the scenario you described happens. However, BFA you only got one option from M+. I have far fewer 'dead' chests in SL, and can usually pick something that's decent, even if it's only for my OS.

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