[Spoilers] Elune talks!!! We finally hear/interact with Elune directly.

[ravenmoon]

Well, Elune doens't know everytig that goes on, loks like she didn't know the souls went to the maw..

again beautiful cinematic, but hte lore reasons aren't compelling enough.

too many moments of these happening around wow nowadays. Not compelling, not inspiring enough, not enjoyable enough . Some are, but the spark is dim, and they don't make enough effort for some of htier hfcanges or over worry and over write so muh the end result is just mediocre trying to please everyone.

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garbage as usual.

Pretty much! Good art work and cinematography though. THey know how to do art (in their own style) well.

[Clone]

Wrong section, and no, Horde is not absolved of all sin.

They still set the tree on fire, Elune could've stopped it but she didn't.

They are in no way absolved of their personal responsibility, they choose to do this.

God works in mysterious ways. Without the Horde doing what they did Elune's will would not have been carried out.

[gcsmith]

Listen to the dialogue properly: "in the wake of a tragedy, I send forth the cascade of souls of my chosen people."

She did not orchestrate the genocide of Night elves. And it seems like they were never meant to go to Shadowlands, she sent them to her sister willingly. She did not know that they would end up in maw.

Maybe if they explain that wisps are the natural cycle for NE's and going to the shadowlands was intervention, then sure... But at the moment, it seems really poorly explained and craps all over NE's after we see Elune refuse to let Tyrande get vengeance.

[ravenmoon]

Visually stunning.
As per usual.

But the whole bit about willingly letting night elves die just save Ardenweald is such a terribly written excuse.

Like sweetie, Ardenweald was suffering from an anima drought.
Meaning no anima nor souls where fueled into the realm.

Why would she expect that the night elves souls suddenly would?

Spot on Arafal, spot in

[Jackstraw]

and unnecesary to get the big picture...

What is the big picture then?

The informations presented in this video is that Elune allowed Kaldorei souls to go to her sister, effectively tampering with whatever was the sorting process - which is double fun given that the Arbiter sorts soul and its absence sends soul straight to the Maw, and Elune should have then supposedly skipped this step... except she did not and Kaldorei went to the Maw regardless.

Also during the Drought Ardenweald actively siphoned soul seeds, so let's ignore the nothingness some of those souls would be damned to for a second, there's some interesting similarities with the Legion engines here by the way.

So Elune interfered with her chosen's afterlives, and then gives Tyrande - who chose vengeance above her safety already in a pretty poignant moment - the opportunity to save herself at the cost of invalidating her ultimate decision.
And Tyrande chooses to relinquish the Night Warrior for no apparent reason, and seemingly happily so.

Which is fitting given how the Night Warrior relinquished her for no apparent reason.
Or Elune, whichever you like more really.

[Xilurm]

But the whole bit about willingly letting night elves die just save Ardenweald is such a terribly written excuse.

Just imagine being curious about a character for a decade and a half, and this is the first thing she says and does when they finally introduce her.

[ravenmoon]

We talked to Elune in Vanilla, in Winterspring. It was brief, but Elune spoke in the quest.

https://classic.wowhead.com/quest=49...s-of-the-altar

we first speak with her in Ashenvale, classic quest, alliance side

[Elegiac]

I’m not defending the story. I am insulting the people who can’t understand information as it was told to them seconds prior, who can’t remember what they did in quests, who can’t understand that actors in a story are not omniscient, and that omniscience for a reader makes the story as boring as an encyclopedia.

Wow, strawmen ahoy.

Asking for consistent and self-contained storytelling based on showing, not telling, is "encyclopedic" now.

Also, what exactly do I need to cope with? I'm not one of the people trying to torture the principles of literary construction because I'm addicted to a video game. Lol.

[Easo]

They can make a beatiful cinematic from an old-ass game engine, yet they cannot write characters capable of critical thinking appropriate to their supposed power. Great...

[Dellis0991]

So basically the Horde was the instrument of Elune's will in the burning of Teldrassil.

Maybe....there is still some context missing. She didn't tell Sylvanas to burn the tree and apparently she didn't know death was broken when she attempted to send those souls to her sister. I'm guessing she can't see pass the veil of death because her "station" as a god of life among the cosmic order restricts or limits her interaction with souls past the veil of death. I'm only guessing, but I doubt the Horde was her "instrument".

[Darknessvamp]

God works in mysterious ways. Without the Horde doing what they did Elune's will would not have been carried out.

You're right, if Sylvanas went with her original plan of occupying Teldrassil then Elune wouldn't have had a ready supply of souls to pass on. Clearly Delaryn was a divine messenger of Elune blessed with the right vernacular to make sure Sylvanas ordered the Horde to do what Elune desired done.

[Lochton]

God works in mysterious ways. Without the Horde doing what they did Elune's will would not have been carried out.

Well, or one could look at it like this. If the Horde had not done what they did, Elune could not have done what she did. They did the deed, and she attempted to help another realm with the losses that could've been saved. The Horde still isn't innocent.

[Kathranis]

It still leads to the massive genocide of the Night Elves though. Like I know, it actually fits. But the problem is that this didn't have to happen in the first place. They didn't have to go this way. And every single patch and cinematic reminds of that.

Yes, obviously, they didn't need to do a story where Sylvanas killed thousands of night elves -- I agree. But that's not really what people are arguing.

They're acting like Elune was somehow responsible for it. She wasn't. Period. She was powerless to stop it.

If you don't like that as a direction for the story, then by all means, say that. I get it. I haven't been happy with the Teldrassil arc, either, even more so because I don't care for Sylvanas's motivations, and it's not what I was hoping for with her storyline (which was to rise to the occasion and become a true leader for her people, back after the events of the Broken Shore).

And I get that you and others wanted Elune to be some sort of almighty deity that saves the day or gives justice to the fallen, and instead they're telling a story where Elune is fallible and imperfect and maybe even kind of aloof and uncaring, and Tyrande is going to have to choose between killing Sylvanas or saving her victims, which makes you worried that Sylvanas will be let off the hook.


Personally, I think there's still a lot of interesting stuff to discuss here, with this new bit of context. I don't know if Blizzard can, or is even capable, of delivering on this story. But I'm not interested in just dismissing everything out of hand, because that's just boring.


What's interesting to me about this is what this all means for Elune's place in the cosmology. It now seems very unlikely to me that she is part of the Pantheon of Light, which was always a bit suspect, given the whole aesthetic of Elune's powers. Rather, everything seems to point to her being part of the Pantheon of Life; Ysera, the wisps and their tethering to the forests of Azeroth, and now, what seems to be Elune's role in rebirthing the spirits of the wild in Ardenweald.

And it now makes me wonder if they might reveal that Elune and the Winter Queen have a brother that's part of the Pantheon of Light, given the relationship between Mu'sha and An'she in tauren mythology.

And beyond the cosmology, it makes me wonder how the night elves will grapple with knowing that their goddess isn't all powerful. Will some of them reject her? Perhaps this will lead to some night elves worshipping the Light. I think that would be interesting, too.

[Knight Meta]

No. What Elune did was take the souls that would otherwise have become Wisps and redirected them to the Shadowlands, where under normal circumstances, they might have wound up in Ardenweald, but instead wound up in The Maw.

This makes me wonder if Elune even had a plan. Like was she just sitting there, going like:

"Man the Winter Queen sure is screeching at me for some more anima. If only I could give her a galactic ton of souls right now that would be pret... Wait is Sylvanas about to burn the tree?! PERFECT TIMING BANSHEE QUEEN!"

And even then I gotta wonder how The Winter Queen screaming at Elune even helps. And IF (As seems to be implied) that Elune could hear The Winter Queen call for help... Why did the Winter Queen not leave the memo of: "Oh yeah the Arbiter is undergoing maintenance right now so don't send the souls just YET."

[baskev]

So basically the Horde was the instrument of Elune's will in the burning of Teldrassil.

Nope, Like @Solamon said. The souls would otherwise serve as whisps. So she send them to her sister ( she tought).

No. What Elune did was take the souls that would otherwise have become Wisps and redirected them to the Shadowlands, where under normal circumstances, they might have wound up in Ardenweald, but instead wound up in The Maw.

yup, the thread post took something else from it indeed. :P

[Ivarr]

In this stunning plot development, rather than Sylvanas being either incompetent or malicious we're now facing the question whether Elune is either incompetent or malicious.

[Goldielocks]

This story continues to be utterly embarrassing lmao

Fire Danuser for the love of god LMAOOOOO

[Icoblablubb]

No. What Elune did was take the souls that would otherwise have become Wisps and redirected them to the Shadowlands, where under normal circumstances, they might have wound up in Ardenweald, but instead wound up in The Maw.

still Elune could have intervened and stop the fire ... since she already intervened by sending all the NE's in the tree into a slumber so they would die peacefully so ya Elune did let them all die just too feed anima to big sis and she even prevented the fallen NE's got turned into wisps

[gcsmith]

Yes, obviously, they didn't need to do a story where Sylvanas killed thousands of night elves -- I agree. But that's not really what people are arguing.

They're acting like Elune was somehow responsible for it. She wasn't. Period. She was powerless to stop it.

If you don't like that as a direction for the story, then by all means, say that. I get it. I haven't been happy with the Teldrassil arc, either, even more so because I don't care for Sylvanas's motivations, and it's not what I was hoping for with her storyline (which was to rise to the occasion and become a true leader for her people, back after the events of the Broken Shore).

And I get that you and others wanted Elune to be some sort of almighty deity that saves the day or gives justice to the fallen, and instead they're telling a story where Elune is fallible and imperfect and maybe even kind of aloof and uncaring, and Tyrande is going to have to choose between killing Sylvanas or saving her victims, which makes you worried that Sylvanas will be let off the hook.


Personally, I think there's still a lot of interesting stuff to discuss here, with this new bit of context. I don't know if Blizzard can, or is even capable, of delivering on this story. But I'm not interested in just dismissing everything out of hand, because that's just boring.


What's interesting to me about this is what this all means for Elune's place in the cosmology. It now seems very unlikely to me that she is part of the Pantheon of Light, which was always a bit suspect, given the whole aesthetic of Elune's powers. Rather, everything seems to point to her being part of the Pantheon of Life; Ysera, the wisps and their tethering to the forests of Azeroth, and now, what seems to be Elune's role in rebirthing the spirits of the wild in Ardenweald.

And it now makes me wonder if they might reveal that Elune and the Winter Queen have a brother that's part of the Pantheon of Light, given the relationship between Mu'sha and An'she in tauren mythology.

And beyond the cosmology, it makes me wonder how the night elves will grapple with knowing that their goddess isn't all powerful. Will some of them reject her? Perhaps this will lead to some night elves worshipping the Light. I think that would be interesting, too.

Even if Elune was powerless to stop it, she could have helped avenge it but withdrew her power before the finish and then goes "Tyrande has to choose vengeance or renwal!" After preventing the vengeance.

[Clone]

No. What Elune did was take the souls that would otherwise have become Wisps and redirected them to the Shadowlands, where under normal circumstances, they might have wound up in Ardenweald, but instead wound up in The Maw.

Nope, Like @Solamon said. The souls would otherwise serve as whisps. So she send them to her sister ( she tought).



yup, the thread post took something else from it indeed. :P

How do living breathing night elves become wisps?