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  1. #201
    Not just absolved of Teldrassil. Absolved of Gilneas too. Since Sylvanas had her soul split, who knows how many other Forsaken were personally slain by Frostmourne and thus had their soul split too? So remember Jim, the butcher who killed Gilnean kids? He's absolved too because he had his soul split. Remember Bob the mad apothecary who created a blight nuke that launched on Gilneas? He's absolved too because he had his soul split. Remember General Whats-His-Name who enslaved the people of the Gilnean village and forced them to work in a mine? He's absolved too because he had his soul split.

    This expansion can essentially be renamed to "WhitewashLands".

  2. #202
    Well, Elune doens't know everytig that goes on, loks like she didn't know the souls went to the maw..

    again beautiful cinematic, but hte lore reasons aren't compelling enough.

    too many moments of these happening around wow nowadays. Not compelling, not inspiring enough, not enjoyable enough . Some are, but the spark is dim, and they don't make enough effort for some of htier hfcanges or over worry and over write so muh the end result is just mediocre trying to please everyone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    garbage as usual.
    Pretty much! Good art work and cinematography though. THey know how to do art (in their own style) well.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  3. #203
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Wrong section, and no, Horde is not absolved of all sin.

    They still set the tree on fire, Elune could've stopped it but she didn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    They are in no way absolved of their personal responsibility, they choose to do this.
    God works in mysterious ways. Without the Horde doing what they did Elune's will would not have been carried out.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    Listen to the dialogue properly: "in the wake of a tragedy, I send forth the cascade of souls of my chosen people."

    She did not orchestrate the genocide of Night elves. And it seems like they were never meant to go to Shadowlands, she sent them to her sister willingly. She did not know that they would end up in maw.
    Maybe if they explain that wisps are the natural cycle for NE's and going to the shadowlands was intervention, then sure... But at the moment, it seems really poorly explained and craps all over NE's after we see Elune refuse to let Tyrande get vengeance.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Visually stunning.
    As per usual.

    But the whole bit about willingly letting night elves die just save Ardenweald is such a terribly written excuse.

    Like sweetie, Ardenweald was suffering from an anima drought.
    Meaning no anima nor souls where fueled into the realm.

    Why would she expect that the night elves souls suddenly would?
    Spot on Arafal, spot in
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    and unnecesary to get the big picture...
    What is the big picture then?

    The informations presented in this video is that Elune allowed Kaldorei souls to go to her sister, effectively tampering with whatever was the sorting process - which is double fun given that the Arbiter sorts soul and its absence sends soul straight to the Maw, and Elune should have then supposedly skipped this step... except she did not and Kaldorei went to the Maw regardless.

    Also during the Drought Ardenweald actively siphoned soul seeds, so let's ignore the nothingness some of those souls would be damned to for a second, there's some interesting similarities with the Legion engines here by the way.

    So Elune interfered with her chosen's afterlives, and then gives Tyrande - who chose vengeance above her safety already in a pretty poignant moment - the opportunity to save herself at the cost of invalidating her ultimate decision.
    And Tyrande chooses to relinquish the Night Warrior for no apparent reason, and seemingly happily so.

    Which is fitting given how the Night Warrior relinquished her for no apparent reason.
    Or Elune, whichever you like more really.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    But the whole bit about willingly letting night elves die just save Ardenweald is such a terribly written excuse.
    Just imagine being curious about a character for a decade and a half, and this is the first thing she says and does when they finally introduce her.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    We talked to Elune in Vanilla, in Winterspring. It was brief, but Elune spoke in the quest.

    https://classic.wowhead.com/quest=49...s-of-the-altar
    we first speak with her in Ashenvale, classic quest, alliance side
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  9. #209
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchpotato2013 View Post
    I’m not defending the story. I am insulting the people who can’t understand information as it was told to them seconds prior, who can’t remember what they did in quests, who can’t understand that actors in a story are not omniscient, and that omniscience for a reader makes the story as boring as an encyclopedia.
    Wow, strawmen ahoy.

    Asking for consistent and self-contained storytelling based on showing, not telling, is "encyclopedic" now.

    Also, what exactly do I need to cope with? I'm not one of the people trying to torture the principles of literary construction because I'm addicted to a video game. Lol.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  10. #210
    They can make a beatiful cinematic from an old-ass game engine, yet they cannot write characters capable of critical thinking appropriate to their supposed power. Great...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  11. #211
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    So basically the Horde was the instrument of Elune's will in the burning of Teldrassil.
    Maybe....there is still some context missing. She didn't tell Sylvanas to burn the tree and apparently she didn't know death was broken when she attempted to send those souls to her sister. I'm guessing she can't see pass the veil of death because her "station" as a god of life among the cosmic order restricts or limits her interaction with souls past the veil of death. I'm only guessing, but I doubt the Horde was her "instrument".

  12. #212
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    God works in mysterious ways. Without the Horde doing what they did Elune's will would not have been carried out.
    You're right, if Sylvanas went with her original plan of occupying Teldrassil then Elune wouldn't have had a ready supply of souls to pass on. Clearly Delaryn was a divine messenger of Elune blessed with the right vernacular to make sure Sylvanas ordered the Horde to do what Elune desired done.
    Elune: "My sister needed Anima so I let my favoured people die. What is this 'Maw' you speak of?"
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  13. #213
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    God works in mysterious ways. Without the Horde doing what they did Elune's will would not have been carried out.
    Well, or one could look at it like this. If the Horde had not done what they did, Elune could not have done what she did. They did the deed, and she attempted to help another realm with the losses that could've been saved. The Horde still isn't innocent.
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  14. #214
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    It still leads to the massive genocide of the Night Elves though. Like I know, it actually fits. But the problem is that this didn't have to happen in the first place. They didn't have to go this way. And every single patch and cinematic reminds of that.
    Yes, obviously, they didn't need to do a story where Sylvanas killed thousands of night elves -- I agree. But that's not really what people are arguing.

    They're acting like Elune was somehow responsible for it. She wasn't. Period. She was powerless to stop it.

    If you don't like that as a direction for the story, then by all means, say that. I get it. I haven't been happy with the Teldrassil arc, either, even more so because I don't care for Sylvanas's motivations, and it's not what I was hoping for with her storyline (which was to rise to the occasion and become a true leader for her people, back after the events of the Broken Shore).

    And I get that you and others wanted Elune to be some sort of almighty deity that saves the day or gives justice to the fallen, and instead they're telling a story where Elune is fallible and imperfect and maybe even kind of aloof and uncaring, and Tyrande is going to have to choose between killing Sylvanas or saving her victims, which makes you worried that Sylvanas will be let off the hook.


    Personally, I think there's still a lot of interesting stuff to discuss here, with this new bit of context. I don't know if Blizzard can, or is even capable, of delivering on this story. But I'm not interested in just dismissing everything out of hand, because that's just boring.


    What's interesting to me about this is what this all means for Elune's place in the cosmology. It now seems very unlikely to me that she is part of the Pantheon of Light, which was always a bit suspect, given the whole aesthetic of Elune's powers. Rather, everything seems to point to her being part of the Pantheon of Life; Ysera, the wisps and their tethering to the forests of Azeroth, and now, what seems to be Elune's role in rebirthing the spirits of the wild in Ardenweald.

    And it now makes me wonder if they might reveal that Elune and the Winter Queen have a brother that's part of the Pantheon of Light, given the relationship between Mu'sha and An'she in tauren mythology.

    And beyond the cosmology, it makes me wonder how the night elves will grapple with knowing that their goddess isn't all powerful. Will some of them reject her? Perhaps this will lead to some night elves worshipping the Light. I think that would be interesting, too.

  15. #215
    High Overlord Knight Meta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solamon View Post
    No. What Elune did was take the souls that would otherwise have become Wisps and redirected them to the Shadowlands, where under normal circumstances, they might have wound up in Ardenweald, but instead wound up in The Maw.
    This makes me wonder if Elune even had a plan. Like was she just sitting there, going like:

    "Man the Winter Queen sure is screeching at me for some more anima. If only I could give her a galactic ton of souls right now that would be pret... Wait is Sylvanas about to burn the tree?! PERFECT TIMING BANSHEE QUEEN!"

    And even then I gotta wonder how The Winter Queen screaming at Elune even helps. And IF (As seems to be implied) that Elune could hear The Winter Queen call for help... Why did the Winter Queen not leave the memo of: "Oh yeah the Arbiter is undergoing maintenance right now so don't send the souls just YET."
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  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    So basically the Horde was the instrument of Elune's will in the burning of Teldrassil.
    Nope, Like @Solamon said. The souls would otherwise serve as whisps. So she send them to her sister ( she tought).

    Quote Originally Posted by Solamon View Post
    No. What Elune did was take the souls that would otherwise have become Wisps and redirected them to the Shadowlands, where under normal circumstances, they might have wound up in Ardenweald, but instead wound up in The Maw.
    yup, the thread post took something else from it indeed. :P

  17. #217
    In this stunning plot development, rather than Sylvanas being either incompetent or malicious we're now facing the question whether Elune is either incompetent or malicious.

  18. #218
    This story continues to be utterly embarrassing lmao

    Fire Danuser for the love of god LMAOOOOO

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solamon View Post
    No. What Elune did was take the souls that would otherwise have become Wisps and redirected them to the Shadowlands, where under normal circumstances, they might have wound up in Ardenweald, but instead wound up in The Maw.
    still Elune could have intervened and stop the fire ... since she already intervened by sending all the NE's in the tree into a slumber so they would die peacefully so ya Elune did let them all die just too feed anima to big sis and she even prevented the fallen NE's got turned into wisps

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Yes, obviously, they didn't need to do a story where Sylvanas killed thousands of night elves -- I agree. But that's not really what people are arguing.

    They're acting like Elune was somehow responsible for it. She wasn't. Period. She was powerless to stop it.

    If you don't like that as a direction for the story, then by all means, say that. I get it. I haven't been happy with the Teldrassil arc, either, even more so because I don't care for Sylvanas's motivations, and it's not what I was hoping for with her storyline (which was to rise to the occasion and become a true leader for her people, back after the events of the Broken Shore).

    And I get that you and others wanted Elune to be some sort of almighty deity that saves the day or gives justice to the fallen, and instead they're telling a story where Elune is fallible and imperfect and maybe even kind of aloof and uncaring, and Tyrande is going to have to choose between killing Sylvanas or saving her victims, which makes you worried that Sylvanas will be let off the hook.


    Personally, I think there's still a lot of interesting stuff to discuss here, with this new bit of context. I don't know if Blizzard can, or is even capable, of delivering on this story. But I'm not interested in just dismissing everything out of hand, because that's just boring.


    What's interesting to me about this is what this all means for Elune's place in the cosmology. It now seems very unlikely to me that she is part of the Pantheon of Light, which was always a bit suspect, given the whole aesthetic of Elune's powers. Rather, everything seems to point to her being part of the Pantheon of Life; Ysera, the wisps and their tethering to the forests of Azeroth, and now, what seems to be Elune's role in rebirthing the spirits of the wild in Ardenweald.

    And it now makes me wonder if they might reveal that Elune and the Winter Queen have a brother that's part of the Pantheon of Light, given the relationship between Mu'sha and An'she in tauren mythology.

    And beyond the cosmology, it makes me wonder how the night elves will grapple with knowing that their goddess isn't all powerful. Will some of them reject her? Perhaps this will lead to some night elves worshipping the Light. I think that would be interesting, too.
    Even if Elune was powerless to stop it, she could have helped avenge it but withdrew her power before the finish and then goes "Tyrande has to choose vengeance or renwal!" After preventing the vengeance.
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