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  1. #221
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solamon View Post
    No. What Elune did was take the souls that would otherwise have become Wisps and redirected them to the Shadowlands, where under normal circumstances, they might have wound up in Ardenweald, but instead wound up in The Maw.
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Nope, Like @Solamon said. The souls would otherwise serve as whisps. So she send them to her sister ( she tought).



    yup, the thread post took something else from it indeed. :P
    How do living breathing night elves become wisps?

  2. #222
    Elune has no control over the Horde. We already know who orchestrated the Fourth War and for what purpose.

    She only admits to sending the souls of those lost in the Burning of Teldrassil to Ardenweald.

  3. #223
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    I think Danuser really likes those "moral tips" to the community.

    "Vegeance is never the right choice"

    "Power to the people. Do not worship gods that don't care for you"

    And so on. *rolleyes*

    What he does not understand is, that people like to dive into fantasy worlds to ESCAPE our world. I personally do not belienve in god in real life, but I love lore around old gods or fantasy world gods and so on.
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    Maybe if they explain that wisps are the natural cycle for NE's and going to the shadowlands was intervention, then sure... But at the moment, it seems really poorly explained and craps all over NE's after we see Elune refuse to let Tyrande get vengeance.
    Just to talk about the wisp aspect of things: I'm 99% certain that they put this in an off-hand comment in one of the new books that was released, where they talk about how wisps are sort of Soulshapes of the NE souls. Regardless, I think it's insanely dumb that there's so much lore that 'explains' what is going on, how things work, and helps makes sense of things being OUTSIDE the bloody game. Outside books and media should be supplementary to the story, not needed for important plot points, motivations, and mechanics.

    Still doesn't fix the general issues of the new cinematic, as there's contradictions and contrivances everywhere.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-07-27 at 07:45 PM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Visually stunning.
    As per usual.

    But the whole bit about willingly letting night elves die just save Ardenweald is such a terribly written excuse.

    Like sweetie, Ardenweald was suffering from an anima drought.
    Meaning no anima nor souls where fueled into the realm.

    Why would she expect that the night elves souls suddenly would?
    I think it's a tad unfair there, it's not like Elune knew what actually is going on, so trying to funnel some souls to help out her sister was a reasonable plan.

    Given that Winter Queen is Elune's sister and she's hardly omnipotent given the blunders, it is fair to assume that neither Elune is some sort of know all see all absolute deity.

    My only issue is why Tyrande chose renewal option, what is the reason for sudden 180 degrees turn there?

    It would also be interesting to know what Night Elves would do with this knowledge that their goddess is not beneath sacrificing them for her own goals. Now of course I expect a lot of Night Elves be goodie two shoes little worshipper sheep about the thing - god giveth and taketh kind on thing, Elune did nothing wrong.

    But I do hope that some will start breaking away which can be turned into story and tension of its own, even if not main theme.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    What is the big picture then?

    The informations presented in this video is that Elune allowed Kaldorei souls to go to her sister, effectively tampering with whatever was the sorting process - which is double fun given that the Arbiter sorts soul and its absence sends soul straight to the Maw, and Elune should have then supposedly skipped this step... except she did not and Kaldorei went to the Maw regardless.

    Also during the Drought Ardenweald actively siphoned soul seeds, so let's ignore the nothingness some of those souls would be damned to for a second, there's some interesting similarities with the Legion engines here by the way.

    So Elune interfered with her chosen's afterlives, and then gives Tyrande - who chose vengeance above her safety already in a pretty poignant moment - the opportunity to save herself at the cost of invalidating her ultimate decision.
    And Tyrande chooses to relinquish the Night Warrior for no apparent reason, and seemingly happily so.

    Which is fitting given how the Night Warrior relinquished her for no apparent reason.
    Or Elune, whichever you like more really.
    well, read what i reacted to and you might get what i meant... its better than just take one sentance from whole conversation and ask...

    1. why should they skip that step? Elune didnt claim them for herself and let them be sorted as she believed they would be chosen for ardenweald (at least most of them)
    2. and they did it bcs they have LACK of souls so they couldnt use tiny part of each but had to use whole souls... which btw, elune might not even know...
    3. she gave her choice to avenge her people OR help them renew... it was pretty clear to me, im not sure what you dont get there...

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    And I get that you and others wanted Elune to be some sort of almighty deity that saves the day or gives justice to the fallen, and instead they're telling a story where Elune is fallible and imperfect and maybe even kind of aloof and uncaring, and Tyrande is going to have to choose between killing Sylvanas or saving her victims, which makes you worried that Sylvanas will be let off the hook.
    The problem I have with this is first:

    They are making revenge out to be a bad thing. It's really annoying because this is a story about war. I really hate that path Blizz has chosen.

    Secondly, there's no saving the Night Elves. They can save them from the Maw yes, but they will still be stuck in the Shadowlands. So that ship sailed 4 years ago.

    I actually don't really mind if Elune isn't all powerful... But I'd rather them be wisps in Azeroth than being stuck in the Shadowlands to live their "new lives".

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Just to talk about the wisp aspect of things: I'm 99% certain that they put this in an off-hand comment in one of the new books that was released, where they talk about how wisps are sort of Soulshapes of the NE souls. Regardless, I think it's insanely dumb that there's so much lore that 'explains' what is going on, how things work, and helps makes sense of things being OUTSIDE the bloody game. Outside books and media should be supplementary to the story, not needed for important plot points, motivations, and mechanics.
    I think the new "Beyond the Veil" book suggests some NE's avoid the shadowlands because Elune intervenes. Though because it's a broker, we don't know if wisp is normal or exceptional circumstances.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think Danuser really likes those "moral tips" to the community.

    "Vegeance is never the right choice"

    "Power to the people. Do not worship gods that don't care for you"

    And so on. *rolleyes*

    What he does not understand is, that people like to dive into fantasy worlds to ESCAPE our world. I personally do not belienve in god in real life, but I love lore around old gods or fantasy world gods and so on.
    Yeah. And this has been going on for a while. They are using modern world morals in a world that's the complete opposite. What's the point of all these different races if they're all gonna act like Humans in the end?

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    The problem I have with this is first:

    They are making revenge out to be a bad thing. It's really annoying because this is a story about war. I really hate that path Blizz has chosen.

    Secondly, there's no saving the Night Elves. They can save them from the Maw yes, but they will still be stuck in the Shadowlands. So that ship sailed 4 years ago.

    I actually don't really mind if Elune isn't all powerful... But I'd rather them be wisps in Azeroth than being stuck in the Shadowlands to live their "new lives".
    Not necessary, Ardenweald has literally the capability to rezz them.

  11. #231
    Neither the Legion nor Azshara were absolved of their sin after the War of the Ancients, even though Elune didn't stop tenthousands of Nightelves dying back then either. I really don't know why people always want gods to interfere with everything and play babysitter for the decisions of mortals.
    Back then, it was Azshara's fault those Nightelves died (plus her followers), this time it's Sylvanas's fault those Nightelves died (plus her followers). It's not Elune's fault that people never learn.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    Even if Elune was powerless to stop it, she could have helped avenge it but withdrew her power before the finish and then goes "Tyrande has to choose vengeance or renwal!" After preventing the vengeance.
    well she couldnt really let tyrande choose AFTER having her vengance, and spending the little power she could get into SL on it...

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Not necessary, Ardenweald has literally the capability to rezz them.
    But can they go back to Azeroth? I know about the demigods and the wild gods. But what about the normal night elves?

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by HeraldofSargeras View Post
    So.... she let people die in Teldrassil? What was she even thinking?
    "Those people are gonna die anyways, better make them useful."

  15. #235
    Because in a land of renewal, death is not the end. But if that land were to die, it would certainly be. Elune is a goddess concerned with the long-term health of her people. She let them die to fuel Ardenweald, where they would live peaceful afterlives and allow her loa to continue to be reborn to aid her still living people.

    The fact that Elune did not intervene does not put her at fault for starting the war in the first place. She simply saw it as an opportunity after hearing the Winter Queen's cry for help.

  16. #236

    Too bad.

    I have an expansion idea with this from Elune. The expansion begins with Elune asking us for help to save her from problem X. The Kaldorei tell her no and then it is a whole expansion about rebuilding her home.

    At the same time the Orcs and Tauren do the same with the elements and so on and so on with all races. That they choose reconstruction instead of helping other entities with their "Revenge".
    And the message of the expansion is "do not help whoever stabs you in the back."

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    But can they go back to Azeroth? I know about the demigods and the wild gods. But what about the normal night elves?
    We don't know... maybe... we will see... maybe... but why not?

  18. #238
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    How do living breathing night elves become wisps?
    It's implied that Elune uses their bond with nature to tether their souls to the forests of Azeroth.

    It's not 100% confirmed that Elune is responsible for it, but that the Brokers explicitly mention it as a possibility is IMO a sort of tacit confirmation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Icoblablubb View Post
    still Elune could have intervened and stop the fire
    There's no indication that she could stop the fire. Otherwise why do any night elves die ever?

    She had the power to give them comfort in their moment of death, that doesn't mean she could put out the fires.

    And there were countless other massacres of night elves dating back thousands of years to the War of the Ancients.

    Why, after all this time, are you only now questioning why Elune didn't intervene? We saw Teldrassil burn in 2018, we knew then that she didn't stop it. Her lack of intervention is not new information, the only new information is that she sent their souls to the Shadowlands "in the wake of tragedy."


    Unless we get more information that indicates Elune is putting on an act in this cutscene and is actually some sort of mercurial trickster that wants to upset the balance between Life and Death or something, there's just no reason to assume there was anything malicious on Elune's part, and nor was there ever any reason to think that she had the power to stop it, otherwise she'd have intervened during Teldrassil and countless other battles, and the night elves would never have gone through all the hardships they've gone through.

    And hell, like I said, that leads to what I think would actually be an interesting story, whether Blizzard is interested in or capable of telling it or not: were the night elves to complacent and trusting in their deity to save them? Was their faith misplaced? A crises of faith would be an incredibly compelling source of drama, if handled correctly.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2021-07-27 at 08:33 PM.

  19. #239
    I think we are witnessing a Garrosh 2.0. Do you remember when Garrosh was written as honorable and then changed?

    Well, I think everyone agreed that Elune was not cool, a very distant and maybe capricious Goddess. Now we must believe that she actually cares for her children and about their free will?

    - Elune let Teldrassil burn to fuel Anima to the Winter Queen. Ok, maybe she did that to fix the balance between souls and reality.
    - She brought nuclear bombs (Night Warrior), an uncontrollable source of power that destroyed worlds.
    - She took the power away from Tyrande and now claims that Tyrande has freedom of will.
    - She knew that Winter Queen needed Anima, but she did not know the Anima never reached Ardenweald. Why Tyrande did not phone call the Winter Queen? Or at least checked the tracking service at UPS? hahaha

    I thought that Elune maybe was a Goddess with multiple faces: renewal, revenge, etc. But it seems I was wrong.
    Last edited by KainneAbsolute; 2021-07-27 at 07:58 PM.

  20. #240
    Bipolar af.

    Elune sacrificed her beloved people, on behalf of the winter queen, while also granting Tyrande's invocation of vengeance, stops her from claiming vengeance and then tells her god sister that now Tyrande has to choose renewal or vengeance. Obviously Tyrande will choose renewal only after Malfurion (suspiciously absent) comes to save her, and full ressurect the NE populace. But so fucked and so terrifying. If the nelfs are subject to this kind of treatment, how dispencible are the other races of Azeroth in comparison.

    This is so radically bipolar.

    Of course Elune in the knowledge of the Shadowlands and of full renewal would not have seen the destruction of Teldrassil as a bad thing, terrifying as that is. Not only that, but Elune has a presence throughout the cosmos whereas she has a presence on Draenor and other worlds with druids as seen in the NF campaign. How is Elune not a greater power than Sargeras? Is she a void lord?

    100% yes, Elune is a void lord. Meaning so is the Winter Queen. The Winter Queen's ex-husbando? The Jailer / Death King. It basically means the void lords are essentially the Daedric gods of wow - some benevolent, mercurial af, worshipped and above all to be feared.
    Last edited by Elestia; 2021-07-27 at 07:59 PM.

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