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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    She COULD have empowered her followers or at least helped them somewhat at Teldrassil. She's a fictional character and the writers are more than capable of having her empower her people as she has done in the past. Tyrande doesn't need to be a Night Warrior to be able to call on Elune to rain down moon bombs on armies like she did in Warcraft 3.
    Elune not acting on a mass scale is the only part of this nonsense that doesn't fuck with her lore too much as that would open the can of worms of why she didn't act in the much bigger wars the night elves were a part in. She still acted in the WC3 sense since her followers were still able to attack me with spells while I was chopping down 8 of them for pre-BFA World Quests.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  2. #402
    Controversial take: while it would at first glance seem quite horrifying that Elune would allow the wholesale slaughter of her self-confessed "favorite children", that only seems bad from a very simplistic view on life and death. One of the broker books (iirc) mentions how silly they find it that mortals look at death as the end of life, when really it's just one state among several. And as we see from the Shadowlands experience, it doesn't really end with death. Now Elune seems to hint at there being some kind of plan for the souls of the kaldorei, which similarly implies that death is a transition, not an extinction. In that sense, while the pain of the experience is regrettable indeed, the loss of life itself is not necessarily that big of a problem, in the larger picture. Certainly given what may be at stake, it may in fact end up being a fairly modest price to pay if it means the sustaining of what comes next. That this didn't actually end up happening because everything went to the Maw can't really be laid at Elune's feet - she made the choice she thought would be best overall, given the information she had.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Elune's intervention being inconsistent and arbitrary only becomes an issue post-humanization. It has always been the case that her power level and ability to intervene has no set bounds. Beyond just what Tyrande does in WC3 we first see Elune directly intervening to put a bubble on Tyrande in one of the Knaak books to protect her from the consequences of her crippling mental retardation. From then on and in the MMO she can cure people from being satyrs and even go so far as to help the Horde PC against night elves if they do some quests. You point this out yourself, there's tons of items and tools and none cohere in any meaningful way.

    So long as Elune has no set origin, no limited abilites, no allegiance to any understood cosmic power etc and is only interpreted second hand by her followers and adversaries, that's no issue. When you give her a face and a voice and an active presence with things like pulling the plug on Tyrande all these elements cease being the unknowable machinations of the divine plan in a religious way and become the stupid actions of one tard in a cast full of tards. Elune's power level matters because she's now a character, not a force. By becoming a character she does also become the personification of all bad night elf writing.
    That's fair enough. We're in agreement then.

    Onwards to raid boss status, I guess.

  4. #404
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Please please please fire Steve Danuser.

    I actually can't deal with this shit lore anymore
    They don't need to fire him. Just step down as the lead narrative dev/designer. He is too much into cliff hangers and cosmic wars
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    What is the purpose of a god of not to intervene in the mortal life of their worshippers? Especially if they have little/no say in what afterlife they go to?
    How often do gods in fantasy settings show up personally to stop wars between mortals? If that is what you expect why weren't you upset about the lack of Elune in previous expansions?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post


    Whether or not anyone has doubts that it is Elune's fault that the Kaldorei souls are in the jaws?
    Well here Elune herself says it.
    That isn't under debate, it's just some people are daft enough to think Elune somehow orchestrated the attack on Teldrassil when it looks more like she sent their souls to Ardenweald instead of keeping them on Azeroth as wisps. They are condemned because Elune didn't know the Jailer was intercepting those souls.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Controversial take: while it would at first glance seem quite horrifying that Elune would allow the wholesale slaughter of her self-confessed "favorite children", that only seems bad from a very simplistic view on life and death. One of the broker books (iirc) mentions how silly they find it that mortals look at death as the end of life, when really it's just one state among several.
    How silly of mortals to not account for information that they don't have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    And as we see from the Shadowlands experience, it doesn't really end with death. Now Elune seems to hint at there being some kind of plan for the souls of the kaldorei, which similarly implies that death is a transition, not an extinction.
    *horrified fan screams*

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    In that sense, while the pain of the experience is regrettable indeed, the loss of life itself is not necessarily that big of a problem, in the larger picture. Certainly given what may be at stake, it may in fact end up being a fairly modest price to pay if it means the sustaining of what comes next. That this didn't actually end up happening because everything went to the Maw can't really be laid at Elune's feet - she made the choice she thought would be best overall, given the information she had.
    So, TLDR, the narratives of the mortal races of Azeroth stopped mattering because they're now just extra's in a soap opera about deities.

    Fun premise, but they could've made a new IP instead of ruining Warcraft for it.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    She 100% let them die by not empowering her "favored children" during the War of the Thorns. She was apparently aware enough of everything happening to the Night Elves to "ease their pain", but just couldn't be bothered giving Night Warrior powers to the defenders of Ashenvale, Darkshore, and Teldrassil. No, no .. they had to do some silly ritual first because "oh, Night Warrior powers are potentially deadly", which doesn't stack up when those defenders are already being slaughtered left and right anyway. All it does is prove that Elune really couldn't give a damn about saving the Night Elves.

    Another nail in the coffin of this idiotic narrative that the Night Elves have been given.
    If you think it's idiotic how did you feel during all the other conflicts? Have you spent every expansion cursing Elune for not randomly giving any endangered NElf extra special super powers to smite their enemies?

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    They don't need to fire him. Just step down as the lead narrative dev/designer. He is too much into cliff hangers and cosmic wars
    For the love of god remove him from his position. I miss when this story was just simple dumb shit with badass characters like Grom etc. Fuck this lore is shit

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    How silly of mortals to not account for information that they don't have.



    *horrified fan screams*



    So, TLDR, the narratives of the mortal races of Azeroth stopped mattering because they're now just extra's in a soap opera about deities.

    Fun premise, but they could've made a new IP instead of ruining Warcraft for it.
    Wasn't that the premises since WoW launched and we found out we were all just kicking about on a Titan planet?

  10. #410
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    For the love of god remove him from his position. I miss when this story was just simple dumb shit with badass characters like Grom etc. Fuck this lore is shit
    I agree. I just do not agree to request a dev/designer to be fired
    I completely agree that the lore is super bad and also ultra annoyingly too much part of the world experience.
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    They don't need to fire him. Just step down as the lead narrative dev/designer. He is too much into cliff hangers and cosmic wars
    Decent chance Golden would take his place.

    You really want more Anduin being the be all end all king Sue with his buddy Baine the prince lover?

    Dansaur certainly isnt that great. But we're kinda in a position that if he's gone, we wont be getting anything better.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    For the love of god remove him from his position. I miss when this story was just simple dumb shit with badass characters like Grom etc. Fuck this lore is shit
    You mean simple dumb shit like the world being crafted by giant stone and metal people who built robots that were cursed to turn into humans, dwarfs and gnomes. Meanwhile orcs invaded because demons infiltrated their magic mountain (which was really a space ship with an angel wind-chime thing) and persuaded them to become genocidal maniacs as part of an interstellar space war?

  13. #413
    Damn the lore of warcraft is getting soo embarrassing.

    WTF Elune lets her protected race burn by Sylvanas command by choice so they can fuel her sister's realm?

    Can lore become more stupid than this???

    Oh wait, i forgot to mention she magically knew about the drought but somehow missed that all souls were going to the maw... /facepalm

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    If you think it's idiotic how did you feel during all the other conflicts? Have you spent every expansion cursing Elune for not randomly giving any endangered NElf extra special super powers to smite their enemies?
    What other conflicts? The only other time we've seen conflict in the Night Elven homeland during WoW has been in Cataclysm, and it involved a whole bunch of stuff about Elune, Wild Gods, the Emerald Dream, etc etc. Other conflicts haven't been Night Elf centric, and if they were an existential threat (such as Legion), they didn't focus on Night Elven homeland, or exclusively Night Elven content, choosing other (previously unheard of) zones instead so there was nothing to show in the traditional Night Elven lands.

    War of the Thorns was the first large scale existential threat to Night Elves set in Ashenvale/Darkshore/Teldrassil since Cataclysm, and suddenly Elune is nowhere to be found until after the fact, Malfurion's powers are greatly diminished, and the traditional forest defenders are inexplicably incompetent at noticing intruders. It's contrived as all heck.
    Last edited by Jinx Vox; 2021-07-28 at 08:44 AM.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    Do you mean to say that a deity who is powerful enough to protect against Archimonde, an immortal and skyscraper-sized demon of incredible magical power and talent, is somehow not powerful enough to protect against a bunch of mortal soldiers? And while we're at that, the Dark Moon during the Battle for Darkshore doesn't just empower Tyrande, but also everyone fighting with her. To say nothing of the various blessings and Elune-related artefacts that appear throughout WoW.

    The problem isn't that Elune is oblivious, or even that she's being humanized (as bad as that is). It's that her power level, like anything in Warcraft, is wildly inconsistent both in scale and use because Elune herself only serves as a plot device McGuffin for [insert anything that features a Night Elf]. That's how we ended up with a deity whose motivations and actions are insane and inconsistent come this latest cutscene: she's the peak personification of the shitty writing that Night Elves have received.
    Elune has been used so much as a Deus Ex machina that she is bloody Ichigo Kurosaki of cosmic alignments. Titans used her tears(and realm?) to shape the world and her moonwells are semi-arcane, she is the progenitor of the Naaru and has been speculated by Velen to exhibit traits similar to one and now she is some sort of Life Eternal thing bound to the Winter Queen. So we end up with Chaos as the only Cosmic force she isn't somehow related to... yet. (Altho we did have to fight the ghosts, in Tomb of Sargeras lol)

    That said inconsistent gigawank of certain characters/powerplayers is one of the reasons i despise Knaak books and putting Elune on a pedastal like they did was only ever going to backfire.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Damn the lore of warcraft is getting soo embarrassing.

    WTF Elune lets her protected race burn by Sylvanas command by choice so they can fuel her sister's realm?

    Can lore become more stupid than this???

    Oh wait, i forgot to mention she magically knew about the drought but somehow missed that all souls were going to the maw... /facepalm
    Elune has "let" Night Elves slaughtered countless times in the past, Warcraft lore and games are filled with conflicts where she does not intercede on a massive scale. It seems she is unable to act on such a scale or as a deity does not see it being her place to do so.

    The video says Elune heard the cries and felt the pain of the Everqueen, it doesn't mean she was given a comprehensive picture of the exact circumstances.

  17. #417
    I love how delusional the anti lore crowd is.. "OMG ELUNE KILLED THEM ALL".. she clearly states "In the wake of the tragedy" as in after the burning. But hey, let's ignore things a character says, because headcanon is more important bruv!

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    she is the progenitor of the Naaru
    Hold on .. is that canon?

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    What other conflicts? The only other time we've seen conflict in the Night Elven homeland during WoW has been in Cataclysm, and it involved a whole bunch of stuff about Elune, Wild Gods, the Emerald Dream, etc etc. Other conflicts haven't been Night Elf centric, and if they were an existential threat (such as Legion), they didn't focus on Night Elven homeland, or exclusively Night Elven content, choosing other (previously unheard of) zones instead so there was nothing to show in the traditional Night Elven lands.

    War of the Thorns was the first large scale existential threat to Night Elves set in Ashenvale/Darkshore/Teldrassil since Cataclysm, and suddenly Elune is nowhere to be found until after the fact, Malfurion's powers are greatly diminished, and the traditional forest defenders are inexplicably incompetent at noticing intruders. It's contrived as all heck.
    The War of the Ancients and the Sundering, the War of the Shifting Sands, the Third War (in which Cennarius was killed,) the War of the Shifting Sands redux, Undead Invasion - Naxx edition, Undead Invasion - Arthas is back, the Cataclysm, Horde-Alliance War - Panda edition, Burning Legion Invasion...

    Lots of Elves dying in those wars, why did you not expect Elune to squish Azshara as soon as she started talking to Sargeras, kill all the orcs in Ashenvale then punch out Archimonde, flatten Ahn-Qiraj, incinerate the hordes of Scourge, slap down Deathwing, squish Garrosh and swat the Legion ships from the sky? Why is her inaction only an issue in Horde-Alliance war - boat edition?

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    Hold on .. is that canon?
    Unfortunately. It's early on in the Xe'ra core Illidan propaganda questline. Velen states that only a direct relative of Xe'ra can unlock the core, which takes us to Exodar thing and once that fails Khadgar says he read in one of Medivh's tomes that Elune could have made Xe'ra meaning that the Tears of Elune could unlock the core... which they did.

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