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  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    The entire incident between the Winter Queen and Elune happens because the communication between two entities of the same power happens unilaterally. Elune receives a call for help, decides to act and does not answer the message, thinking the cascade of souls would be eloquent enough.
    The Winter Queen, offended, holds a grudge against her sister.
    Yes Elune heard/felt the cries of hunger from Ardenweald and sent souls of the recently deceased NElves to Ardenweald to help with the anima drought. Considering no-one, including the eternal ones, knew what was happening prior to our intervention in the Shadowlands what makes this an act of incompetence?

    The pettiness of Elune - or whatever trait runs in the family - continues. All of the Night Warriors recipients we interact with get consumed one way or the other by its power: either by madness or because their lives get extinguished as they further their chosen purpose. Elune stripped Tyrande of her powers at the height of it, and as valid as her self destructive tendencies in that instance were, got superseded by Elune wanting a body to communicate with The Winter Queen.
    Are you entirely sure that Elune only spared Tyrande because she wanted an avatar to communicate with her sister? It looked more like it was just to save Tyrande's life, possibly as a response to Tyrande asking for yet more power but I originally thought Ysera might have had something to do with it, unless you think it's a complete coincidence that the dragon arrived exactly at the right time to stop Sylvanas hurting the depowered Tyrande. Something along those lines makes more sense than Elune withdrawing her power and risking Tyrande's death at the banshee's hand and knowing that the Covenants of the Shadowlands would be able to work together and gather former Night Warriors who would be able to perform a ritual and with the Winter Queen's help prevent Tyrande from going full-meltdown, just to have more direct communication which only becomes necessary once Elune discovers that the souls never made it to Ardenweald.

    Tyrande then chooses purification invalidating all she did previously in her Night Warrior quest, she cannot choose vengeance.
    Yes, when Tyrande's mind is no longer clouded by the wrathful power of the Night Warrior and when she has a better understanding of what is happening in the Shadowlands she chooses to help the dead souls and Ardenweald rather than continuing trying to kill Sylvanas. I don't understand the problem with that.

    The part about the souls is perplexing. The Maw Walker is personally gathering Kaldorei souls from the Maw, tasked by Ysera herself, and freed a sizable number from Torghast as well. If there is a plan to vacuum them off super hell, it would make most of what the player did invalid. Which might not be surprising, but is still classified as questionable writing at its best.
    Currently the plans are unknown, I assumed from context that the Winter Queen's plan involved using the rescued souls to aid Ardenweald, I didn't think she was talking about "vacuuming souls off super hell."

    Sira's anguish. Now, as we know Elune tampered with the souls of her selected people, choosing to hold off in the instance of the burning of Teldrassil and rather set them to Ardenweald. Could Sira presumably know the souls of her peers got damned, her resurrection via the Val'kyrs coming with a moment of clarity given the ties with Sylvanas and the Jailer? It's quite possible that's the case. Would make it quite fun, a mortal understanding what's happening and Elune not being able to.
    It's an interesting take but given Sira's history it's also possible she simply lost faith and saw Elune as another figure abandoning her.

    The undead being around due to necromancy and death magic never took anything from death as a metaphysical concept. The vision/ spirit of Varian, of Uther, the lament of Frostmourne's prisoners and Terenas held significance due to their different stories. And now we find out they get sorted by the magical hexagonal hat in worlds where there's magical horses that die while dead.

    Pardon my sarcasm but what the hell.
    We've had very firm evidence since Vanilla that "souls" can survive death with a complete personality, and WotLK showed that these souls can be transferred to other planes of existence and used as a power source. Then Legion showed how afterlives are "places" with Odyn intercepting and collecting souls. The only big revelation really was the idea that an entity is in charge of judging souls and sending them to the appropriate afterlife.

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    Hmm I can't think of any right now, but are there any night elf souls in shadowlands then? Not speaking about the ones we saved from torghast, just ones who reached the shadowlands before the system of death was broken
    The previous night warriors that we use to help save Tyrande all got sorted by the system are presumably all former night elves. If they're not, that would come with its own interesting implications.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The previous night warriors that we use to help save Tyrande all got sorted by the system are presumably all former night elves. If they're not, that would come with its own interesting implications.
    They are not, they come from different worlds. I explicitely remember them talking about trying to save their world.
    Last edited by procne; 2021-08-03 at 03:02 PM.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The previous night warriors that we use to help save Tyrande all got sorted by the system are presumably all former night elves. If they're not, that would come with its own interesting implications.
    Thiernax (and Qadarin) are both inhabitants of a world named Fyzandi, which was attacked by an Old God at some point in the past. Being non-Azerothian it's unlikely they would've previously been kaldorei. We're not really sure what Khalliq and the Stonewright might've been once upon a time.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  5. #725
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    I actually understood it as she let them die, so that their souls went to shadowlands. Instead of intervening and saving them. Anyway, what would be the "soul thing" you mentioned? Everyone who dies goes to shadowlands anyway, so there was nothing for Elune to do in that regard.
    Where would their souls go then if Elune didn't "let them pass to SL"? Could she somehow stop / redirect those souls from going to SL? To where? If she has that kind of power then she is as close to omnipotent as we've seen in the game so far. Considering that to our knowledgenone of the powerful characters avoided Shadowlands[/QUOTE]

    We know that NElf spirits can stick around for a while as malevolent ghosts, especially when they're taken out in a particularly traumatic way (there are still ghosts hanging around from the War of the Ancients) or cursed to do so (like the inhabitants of Aszuna.) Also we know that NElf spirits can stick around as wisps, in fact the player character becomes a wisp instead of a regular corpse in WoW.

    The other thing to consider is all the other afterlives that NElf souls could be sent to, just because NElves have a connection to nature doesn't mean that they're all fit for a life as fairy wood wardens. I reckon Elune scooped up all the souls, even the ones that could have stuck around as wisps or grumpy ghosts, and sent them direct to the Shadowlands marked to go to Ardenweald and bypass or fastrack the normal arbitration process.

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    I actually understood it as she let them die, so that their souls went to shadowlands. Instead of intervening and saving them. Anyway, what would be the "soul thing" you mentioned? Everyone who dies goes to shadowlands anyway, so there was nothing for Elune to do in that regard.



    Where would their souls go then if Elune didn't "let them pass to SL"? Could she somehow stop / redirect those souls from going to SL? To where? If she has that kind of power then she is as close to omnipotent as we've seen in the game so far. Considering that to our knowledgenone of the powerful characters avoided Shadowlands
    Where do the souls go.....wisp?

    Also preventing the souls entering the Shadowlands isn't particularly rare? Warlocks do it, as do countless quests where to aboarb something's soul. Doing that on a grand scale hardly seems omnipotent especially on one species on one world.
    Last edited by Newname1234567890; 2021-08-03 at 04:29 PM.

  7. #727
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    below your original post


    they do not. And people in teldrassil ( and other night elf territories) died at mass. You acting or thinking they are alive does not make them alive.
    When did I say the night elves in Teldrassil are alive? Go on, look for that post.

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    When did I say the night elves in Teldrassil are alive? Go on, look for that post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    How do living breathing night elves become wisps?
    this one.....

    Where i clearly was qouting how the souls from teldrassil would have become wisps normally. But Elune send them to the shadowlands to help her sister.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    this one.....

    Where i clearly was qouting how the souls from teldrassil would have become wisps normally. But Elune send them to the shadowlands to help her sister.
    That doesn't say anything about whether or not they were alive. You seem to have a pretty fail ability to read so I'm just going to explain it to you. The original point was that the Horde was the instrument of Elune's will. Without the Horde burning Teldrassil the night elves there wouldn't have died. Your notion that the night elves who would otherwise become wisps has no bearing whatsoever on this issue because they still need to die for Elune to send their souls anywhere.

    The fact you think I don't understand basic WoW is laughable when that's not even the point discussed here. I mean for fucks sake, I didn't just ask how night elves become wisps, I specifically mentioned living breathing night elves to stress the point the Horde needed to be there to kill them for Elune.

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    That doesn't say anything about whether or not they were alive. You seem to have a pretty fail ability to read so I'm just going to explain it to you. The original point was that the Horde was the instrument of Elune's will. Without the Horde burning Teldrassil the night elves there wouldn't have died. Your notion that the night elves who would otherwise become wisps has no bearing whatsoever on this issue because they still need to die for Elune to send their souls anywhere.

    The fact you think I don't understand basic WoW is laughable when that's not even the point discussed here. I mean for fucks sake, I didn't just ask how night elves become wisps, I specifically mentioned living breathing night elves to stress the point the Horde needed to be there to kill them for Elune.
    You said :
    How do living breathing night elves become wisps?
    was responding to that. ...so answer me that ?

    I get your point. You are saying Elune played a part in what the horde did. Or did nothing to prefent it. We in lore and outside lore do not know the powers she has. If she was busy protecting us from the old gods or something else. So for all we know she can only ease pain and give 1 or 2 persons some super powers.
    So nope she had nothing to do with planning ( so far*) or motivating the horde.
    We also do not know if she would have been able to do it.

    Yes the original point was that. And i disagree with that. It makes many assumptions that Elune is not busy protecting us from something even bigger or batter. Or that she has powers enough to stop the whole horde.
    Lets be clear. Lore wise she did not know the souls went to the Maw. All she knew , that there was a drought.

    And it does cary some importance. Because its info on her intent. We do not know her powers etc. But we do know she wanted to help her sister and give the souls a chance to a afterlive. And yes they still needed to die. But she as far as we know had nothing to do with it.

    To make it simple:
    The claim is: elune planned/helped the horde to commit it all. Or she did nothing to stop it. So she could give her sister some souls.
    The evidence for it: NON. there is no evidence. All we know is that she cares for the souls to become wisps or send them to SL. And that she can superpowers in a dagerous ritual that makes a person unstable.

    What i am saying: The situation happend. Why she did not do anything we do not know. But she did send the souls to shadowlands instead of making them into wisps.

    And i was qouting a other person who said the same thing as me. She only directed the souls else where. Anything else had nothing do with it. You then said
    How do living breathing night elves become wisps?
    . So:
    - someone says: she instead of turning them into wisps , they are turned into SL souls.
    - i agree with that.
    - and you start talking about that cause.
    - while we where talking about the aftermath.



    But in short:
    - the assumption that Elune can do anything or is able to do anything is wild. We do not know enough about her and her powers.
    - All we know is that she normally gets the souls, but send them to her sister this time.


    But to answer your question How do living breathing night elves become wisps? Simple they get killed by the horde. No info on Elune's part in it. So you can bla bla all you want.


    * tm blizzard writing.

    Oohh and going after me personally calling me dumb and what not. Most of the time shows you are losing something or are angry. So chill out dude.

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    "By our hand, we may yet guide their souls unto their Spring".
    Funnily enough, "Spring" in the french version has been translated as a source, like a spring of water, instead of the season spring.

  12. #732
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Elune talks! .... And boy howdy do I wish she would've just remained silent, expressing herself through action and symbolism, because it's terrifying to think one of the setting's primary gods has the intellectual capacity and critical thinking of a stoned teenager.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    But to answer your question How do living breathing night elves become wisps? Simple they get killed by the horde. No info on Elune's part in it. So you can bla bla all you want.
    That wasn't so hard was it? You could have saved yourself a lot of time had you not try to gotcha me.

  14. #734
    apparently, Shandris and Tyrande are fine with it (or will be) https://twitter.com/Nobbel87/status/1426250681300787202

    GOAT tier right there.

    can't wait to see Tyrande shaking hands with Sylvanas.

    @Houle @Feanoro yo guys, remember when some people compared WoW to Tolkien /facepalm
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    They had no prior build-up and instead tried to leech off of already established things people are familiar with. The Scourge? Maldraxxus did that. The Lich King? The Jailer did that. Frostmourne? The Runecarver made that. Sargeras corruption by demons and everything resulting from that? Also the Jailer's plan.

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    apparently, Shandris and Tyrande are fine with it (or will be) https://twitter.com/Nobbel87/status/1426250681300787202

    GOAT tier right there.

    can't wait to see Tyrande shaking hands with Sylvanas.

    @Houle @Feanoro yo guys, remember when some people compared WoW to Tolkien /facepalm
    Are they for real? she just gonna forget about the whole thing? this is cringe writing at its best and shows how Blizzard's embracement of progressivity ruins the game's lore. Basically -
    Elune: "you have a choice. But, don't you dare choose vengeance".
    Tyrande: "i choose vengeance"
    Elune: "sorry, my child. Wrong choice"
    Tyrande: "what the...?"
    Elune: So, what is your choice?"
    Tyrande: "Renewal, i guess"
    Elune: Excellent choice"
    Tyrande: "Like i had one..."

    And this is, folks, how WoW lore is from now on. No vengeance, no hostility, no anger, no animosity; Just love, peace and compassion.
    Jeez... sounds great -_-
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  16. #736
    I am really questionning the writers' mental health to have imagined and written such a scenario.

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    I am really questionning the writers' mental health to have imagined and written such a scenario.
    Don't you see?
    Since it's crucial to strive for peace and embracement in real-life, you should have it in game as well, despite the fact that it's a fantasy game meant for escapism, that is founded on war and animosity.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    apparently, Shandris and Tyrande are fine with it (or will be) https://twitter.com/Nobbel87/status/1426250681300787202

    GOAT tier right there.

    can't wait to see Tyrande shaking hands with Sylvanas.
    "Our people's souls are fuel, but at least it's not scary green when they burn!" Completely half-assed writing that doesn't remotely think things through or consider anything that came before.

    @Houle @Feanoro yo guys, remember when some people compared WoW to Tolkien /facepalm
    And I flat out laughed at anyone who made that comparison and will continue to do so.

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    "Our people's souls are fuel, but at least it's not scary green when they burn!" Completely half-assed writing that doesn't remotely think things through or consider anything that came before.
    you know, at least demons are straight forward

    And I flat out laughed at anyone who made that comparison and will continue to do so.
    comparing WoW to Tolkien is a sacrilege.

    Ik everyone has their own taste but still...
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2021-08-16 at 12:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    They had no prior build-up and instead tried to leech off of already established things people are familiar with. The Scourge? Maldraxxus did that. The Lich King? The Jailer did that. Frostmourne? The Runecarver made that. Sargeras corruption by demons and everything resulting from that? Also the Jailer's plan.

  20. #740
    Honestly, Elune was better served being simply lore and personification of concepts. Having her appear in the "flesh" with mortal emotions just feels like it takes so much away from the lore, history, and mystery of her character.

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