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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I almost lost it when Elune had that "oopsie" moment upon realizing that all the night elf souls she sent to the afterlife ended up going to the maw instead of Ardenweald.

    Behold as Shadowlands even ruins the character of literal gods. Elune is a complete joke of a goddess now who apparently for some reason doesn't even have any knowledge of the souls that she chose to deliver to another plane.
    you NEVER EVER heard any mythological story other than christian/jewish/muslim, have you?
    gods in polyteistic religions were never omniscient, for example even Zeus, king of gods, had no idea whats going on in underworld...
    not to mention, we dont even know what elune actualy is, just bcs we call her "godess" doesnt make her one... she is just powerful, but so are titans and they had no idea what was going on on azeroth (lokens betrayal going unnoticed for example)
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-07-27 at 05:47 PM.

  2. #102
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    hmmmm maybe renewal means they build a new tree and put all the elves back to life?
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  3. #103
    You know, on one hand it kind of makes sense.

    Like Bwonsamdi chose the Trolls to look after, to make them thrive and gain as much Anima during their life as possible to then guide them to the Other Side to get some of that Anima for himself, so did Elune. She was the Elven Goddess, answered their prayers when necessary and gave them enough reason to worship her and accummulate anima during their lifespan...

    only that the Night Elves were immortal until the Battle for Hyjal. So unless something very tragic happens to a select Night Elf, they just don't die. So I don't see a point in Elune choosing the Elves as her future-anima-containers, at least before the Battle for Hyjal, although after this it makes more sense.

    In the end she's just like any other cosmic force representative - she's good to her subjects as long as she can gain something from it. She felt Ardenweald is in need of Anima and decided it's a good reason to donate a large amount of Elven souls. Looking at it from outside, welp what does it matter since mortal life isn't that significant in a grand scheme of things. Still, it doesn't sound benevolent.

    In the end, there's a lesson in that: everything that's not mortal / is outside of our realm is our enemy, one way or another. They can take brutal shape like the Maw stuff, they can be cute like the Fae, but in the end all they want ultimatelly is use us as a fuel or a tool.

    Tyrande's and Shandris' reaction is funny though. Looks like they didn't learn a single thing from it and they still worship their Mother Moon. Oh well, main characters being dumb idiots is the theme of the last couple of expansions anyway, looks like the plot just can't move forward otherwise.

  4. #104
    Ironically, the idea that a 10000000000 year old elf priestess of a nature-revering race deciding to fix the cycle of rebirthing life spirits over nuking and pulping Sylvanas for "honor" is pretty congruent with WoW LORE... but this isn't about the lore is it?

    It's about what the fans want (vengeance) over what makes sense in the story (renewal).

  5. #105
    its a fine "development" considering the writers hole they put themselves into with the burning of the tree..

    my working theory is Elune is a titan/eternal/x level character that ascended to "first one" status, hence why she is refereed to a "upstart goddess" a few times, something zoval is attempting to do and then use the first one tech/powers to remake things while Elune is more of a benevolent approach, would also explain why she isn't omnipotent.

    I further suspect that you will see a starcraft xelnaga like "cycle" angle to this is cosmic power nonsense of rebalancing/remaking/resetting the universe over and over when one cosmic power becomes to dominant, just this time zoval is trying to be the designer not a puppet in it.

  6. #106
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    We finally hear Elune herself talk! Through Tyrande as her avatar. Its not ambiguous - its Elune.
    This is huge. How many years have we waited for this moment!

    Elune has interacted / interfered very little over the years. She shielded Tyrande during Wc3. She shielded us, the players, during the Archimonde fight during TBC. She saved Ysera's soul from the Nightmare during Legion. But thats pretty much it.. in like 20 freaking years worth of warcraft - it's still literally only a handful of times where we can talk about Elune herself directly interacting with us or in our presence.

    Your thoughts/reaction? Interesting we got this in a mid-expansion mid-covenant campaign cutscene. I wouldve expected something like this moment with Elune to be a movie CGI cinematic / end of raid tier / climax of entire expansion story type reveal.

    Interesting quote from the Primus at the end of this questline, "The Winter Queen is bound to her counterpart in the realms of Life. Together, they embody the balance of the great cycle".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo
    That was a big yikes to hear..

    That Elune let her favorite "children" die in hopes to aid Ardenweald in its hard time.... And all those went to the Maw...


    Yikes..

    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  7. #107
    Dreadlord Smallfruitbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post

    Isn't this exactly what happened, or am I misremembering? I could swear that Elune comforted them so they didn't feel any pain.
    Page 88 of Elegy... Only Astaari, three priestesses and a Mother and Son appear to be present when Elune intervenes. It's clear in the previous Astaari POV starting page 82 that others had already suffered/died.

    Regardless, it seems ridiculous that Elune sacrificed her chosen people and hoped their souls would arrive in the right place. I mean, she didn't even bother to check why there was a drought.
    Last edited by Smallfruitbat; 2021-07-27 at 05:56 PM.

  8. #108
    i will sue blizzard for objectifiying a goddess. two even ! /s
    war does not determine who is right, only who is left.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    you NEVER EVER heard any mythological story other than christian/jewish/muslim, have you?
    gods in polyteistic religions were never omniscient, for example even Zeus, king of gods, had no idea whats going on in underworld...
    not to mention, we dont even know what elune actualy is, just bcs we call her "godess" doesnt make her one... she is just powerful, but so are titans and they had no idea what was going on on azeroth (lokens betrayal going unnoticed for example)
    Yeah, but no one in Greek mythology pretended that gods were their buddies. They saw them for what they were. Fucking assholes with the power to kill them at will in excruciating ways, to put it mildly. Their worship was out of self-preservation and fear.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I don't think this is saying she "let them die" but rather sent the cascade of souls from Teldrassil to the Shadowlands after hearing the Night Queen's plea for help, rather than transforming them into wisps. She didn't know they would be intercepted.
    How would that work exactly? Either she took over the souls herself, in which case she broke the main rule of Shadowlands cycle which is "each soul must be judged by the arbiter", in which case she's no better than Devos/Uther throwing Arthas into the Maw (and why would all the elves deserve to go to Ardenweald anyway? Just by default because they happened to be on that tree?) and she failed at it anyway because they ended up in the Maw anyway; or - she's just lying to her sister. Bwonsamdi had no issue taking troll souls to the Other Side (although in his case I'm unaware if they went through the Arbiter's judgement first - if not then tbh whole SL is fucked up anyway).

    In both cases, what Elune is saying is a big pile of shit. She's either a liar, a failure or an idiot. Or all of them.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Yeah, but no one in Greek mythology pretended that gods were their buddies. They saw them for what they were. Fucking assholes with the power to kill them at will in excruciating ways, to put it mildly. Their worship was out of self-preservation and fear.
    Ehhhh not really, Artemis and Athena were much beloved gods for some Greeks, just not so much some of the other gods.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    How would that work exactly? Either she took over the souls herself, in which case she broke the main rule of Shadowlands cycle which is "each soul must be judged by the arbiter", in which case she's no better than Devos/Uther throwing Arthas into the Maw (and why would all the elves deserve to go to Ardenweald anyway? Just by default because they happened to be on that tree?) and she failed at it anyway because they ended up in the Maw anyway; or - she's just lying to her sister. Bwonsamdi had no issue taking troll souls to the Other Side (although in his case I'm unaware if they went through the Arbiter's judgement first - if not then tbh whole SL is fucked up anyway).

    In both cases, what Elune is saying is a big pile of shit. She's either a liar, a failure or an idiot. Or all of them.
    It might be a case of something like pledges, that is if you pledge to a certain being you go to that afterlife, and in this case, that realm of shadowlands. So the trolls pledged to Bwonsamdi go to de other side even with the arbiter checking them. In this example Elune earmarked them for landing in ardenwaeld.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  12. #112
    lol Blizzard

    ruining Arthas : done
    ruining Sylvanas : done
    ruining Elune : in progress - one of the most mysterious / high expectations characater of warcraft just turned the night elves into fuel for the Maw


    can't wait for the next cinematic, ready for anything now

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Yeah, but no one in Greek mythology pretended that gods were their buddies. They saw them for what they were. Fucking assholes with the power to kill them at will in excruciating ways, to put it mildly. Their worship was out of self-preservation and fear.
    well, some people actualy were allowed to host gods or actualy to feast with them on olympos occasionaly, so some surely seen them as "buddies"

    but thats kinda besides the point that there is ZERO reason for Elune to be omniscient, as no other powerful being, even titans (who were until recently seen as "gods" or "creators of universe") are omniscient...

  14. #114
    I think it's time for a new god night elves lol.

  15. #115
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Just like Game of Thrones.

    In literary criticism, an idiot plot is one which is "kept in motion solely by virtue of the fact that everybody involved is an idiot," and where the story would quickly end, or possibly not even happen, if this were not the case. It is a narrative where its conflict comes from characters not recognizing, or not being told, key information that would resolve the conflict, often because of plot contrivance. The only thing that prevents the conflict's resolution is the character's constant avoidance or obliviousness of it throughout the plot, even if it was already obvious to the viewer, so the characters are all "idiots" in that they are too obtuse to simply resolve the conflict immediately.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  16. #116
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninelives9 View Post
    That is really stretching it to be honest. >_> In the end this is just usual poor writing.
    If Elune could just save all the night elves of Teldrassil then what's the point of even having a story? Why didn't she save them every other time they were faced with crisis?

    How does this information in any way change anything, other than that we know she chose not to intervene in their souls passing to the Shadowlands?

    We already knew that she didn't save the night elves. We saw her not save the night elves. And for thousands of years before Teldrassil, too.

    It's not like they could ever just universally count on her to save the day. She was never that reliable. The instances where she did intervene were extraordinary, not typical.

  17. #117
    blizz should really stop trying to be subtle, they should know by now people wont LISTEN to whats said and definitely put no thought to it, just go straight to "its shit" as long as the point is not given to them on silver plate...

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Ehhhh not really, Artemis and Athena were much beloved gods for some Greeks, just not so much some of the other gods.
    Even they were assholes when time came. Depending on the story Medusa was turned into a Gorgon by Athena for the crime of being raped by Poseidon in a temple dedicated to Athena.

    The only Greek Olympian that wasn't really beloved and worshipped was Ares. As Zeus stated in one of the myths "You are the most despised of the gods." when Ares was crying because he was beaten by Athena again.

  19. #119
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    blizz should really stop trying to be subtle, they should know by now people wont LISTEN to whats said and definitely put no thought to it, just go straight to "its shit" as long as the point is not given to them on silver plate...
    Bruh if your story momentum is being sustained entirely by the fact otherwise competent people suddenly forgot how to brain, chances are it's a shit story.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    If Elune could just save all the night elves of Teldrassil then what's the point of even having a story? Why didn't she save them every other time they were faced with crisis?

    How does this information in any way change anything, other than that we know she chose not to intervene in their souls passing to the Shadowlands?

    We already knew that she didn't save the night elves. We saw her not save the night elves. And for thousands of years before Teldrassil, too.

    It's not like they could ever just universally count on her to save the day. She was never that reliable. The instances where she did intervene were extraordinary, not typical.
    this, in war of ancients, there were thousands of nelfs (and other races) slaughtered, and elune saved just tyrande... thats it, nobody else, but somehow now she should be able to save everyone...

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