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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I.e. Maintaining the system that forms the status quo is more important than justice.
    The important aspect here is how the races affected by everything that transpired react; the races to which the playable character belongs and especially night elves. They're completely ignoring this and giving us interaction between these various deities, as if all of Azeroth is a hivemind with no emotion, sense of justice or sense of self.

  2. #162
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The important aspect here is how the races affected by everything that transpired react; the races to which the playable character belongs and especially night elves. They're completely ignoring this and giving us interaction between these deities, as if all of Azeroth is a hivemind with no emotion, sense of justice or sense of self.
    Yep, reminds me of how GoT put a lot of time and effort into the High Sparrow plotline but then just kind of forgot that a massive movement of religious extremists doesn't just go away because you blow up the Vatican.

    There's a complete absence of sociological aspect to this story (besides vacillating between "racism bad" and "separate but equal is Good, Actually™") which is partially what makes it feel so contrived.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I think Elune might be the most useless deity in all of Blizzard franchises. Literally the only thing she's done in WoW, despite the yearly world-ending threats, was turn Ysera into a random constellation no one cares about.

    No wonder she was the creator of that worthless chandelier Xe'ra.
    Guess this confirms she sent Ysera to Ardenweald before the drought. The setup to Shadowlands is too vague and rushed.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Considering the lady is giving orders, it's Sylvanas.

    Elune doesn't give ordes.
    And the Elves aren't sheep. You shouldn't takie prophecies like this literally.

    When you look at it figuratively, it kind of makes sense.

    Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.
    She leads them, as in she's their goddess and the Night Elves revere and worship her, probably to the point of fanatism.

    Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.
    So basically more of the above. "Mother Moon". The whole Night Elven social structure is built on the Elune faith.

    She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!
    So Elune taking the elven souls from Teldrassil. Over tall cliff could imply just the Maw since it's depicited in SL as being below all the other realms.

    Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!
    The Maw, the Jailer and the Maw forces growing stronger. Why would Elune be happy about it? Who the hell knows, but you can expect anything from Blizzard nowadays. Wouldn't shock me if they revealed Elune was working with the Jailer, probably in some overdramatic cinematic.

  5. #165
    Thank you so much Blizzard, thank you.

    Thank you for ruining Elune. You literally had one job.

  6. #166
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    How would that work exactly? Either she took over the souls herself, in which case she broke the main rule of Shadowlands cycle which is "each soul must be judged by the arbiter", in which case she's no better than Devos/Uther throwing Arthas into the Maw (and why would all the elves deserve to go to Ardenweald anyway? Just by default because they happened to be on that tree?) and she failed at it anyway because they ended up in the Maw anyway; or - she's just lying to her sister. Bwonsamdi had no issue taking troll souls to the Other Side (although in his case I'm unaware if they went through the Arbiter's judgement first - if not then tbh whole SL is fucked up anyway).
    Elune isn't of the Shadowlands, she's most likely of the realm of Life. The denizens of the Shadowlands don't like or trust her. Even her sister mistrusted her and her "pet," Ysera. That's made even more clear in Grimoire, the new Chronicle-style book.

    Grimoire also heavily implies the Elune interferes with the Great Cycle, keeping the souls of night elves from passing to the Shadowlands by allowing their souls to remain tethered to the forests of the mortal realm as wisps. That's the contravention of the Great Cycle.

    Whether the souls were all destined for Ardenweald or not (it's likely that many would have been, as "the spirits of nature are tethered to Ardenweald"), Elune was contributing to the anima drought by preventing night elves from passing into the Shadowlands. And it's probable that there are similar cases throughout the mortal realms, as Elune is also worshipped on other worlds.

    What Elune did after Teldrassil was simply letting the souls pass into the Shadowlands as they normally should, after "hearing" the Winter Queen's pleas for help. But it's clear that Elune doesn't have direct insight into the goings on of the Shadowlands, as she didn't know the mechanisms of Death were broken and that the souls would be condemned to the Maw.


    As for Bwonsamdi and Mueh'zala, they are of the realm of Death. They wield power in the Shadowlands, unlike Elune.

    Mueh'zala hoarded the souls of his followers in his own necropolis, preventing them from passing on to the Shadowlands. Bwonsamdi held authority over the Other Side (gained by tricking Mueh'zala), a small spirit realm on the edge of Ardenweald where troll spirits reside.

    When Bwonsamdi learned of the breaking of the Arbiter, he started to gather the souls of his followers in his necropolis (in Zandalar) to prevent them from being sent to the Maw. That's why Mueh'zala, one of the Jailer's allies, invaded the Other Side.

    But, again, Bwonsamdi is basically part of the pantheon of Death, Elune is not. She only has a window into the Shadowlands in this moment, through Tyrande.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    So elune didn’t safe the night elfs because her sister needed souls? That’s so incredibly stupid.
    I think Blizzard's issue is they want to write/say all these pontificating lines of dialogue that they think sound "epic" but they don't consider how stupid the context is. Mechanically, it's ridiculous. how could a deity not know what was going on with souls in the afterlife that she was responsible for?... Zero thought went into the background of that.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Yep, reminds me of how GoT put a lot of time and effort into the High Sparrow plotline but then just kind of forgot that a massive movement of religious extremists doesn't just go away because you blow up the Vatican.

    There's a complete absence of sociological aspect to this story (besides vacillating between "racism bad" and "separate but equal is Good, Actually™") which is partially what makes it feel so contrived.
    The introductory questing in Gilneas has done more to address things like these than the entirety of BfA and Shadowlands combined. The rift within a people is portrayed pretty decently in Gilneas.

  9. #169
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Elune isn't of the Shadowlands, she's most likely of the realm of Life. The denizens of the Shadowlands don't like or trust her. Even her sister mistrusted her and her "pet," Ysera. That's made even more clear in Grimoire, the new Chronicle-style book.
    "Please refer to this external piece of media in order to provide critical context for shit that happens in the story" continues to be as shitty a position today as it was regarding Theramore, y'all.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  10. #170
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Guess this confirms she sent Ysera to Ardenweald before the drought. The setup to Shadowlands is too vague and rushed.
    Ysera died at the start of Legion, and was among the Wild Seeds with other Wild Gods that died during the early stages of Legion, so... yeah? We kind of already knew that.

    Everything right now points to it being the death of Argus that broke the Arbiter. Or at the very least that it happened towards the tail end of Legion.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Yeah basically this. From Elunes point of view she's just transferring the elves to another place so they can all help out there instead and live their immortal "lives" in peace as part of the forest of Ardenweald.
    But, wouldn't those souls be consumed as was Ursoc's upon arriving in Ardenweald, if they arrived there as originally planned ?

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Guess this confirms she sent Ysera to Ardenweald before the drought. The setup to Shadowlands is too vague and rushed.
    It took literally 4 years with Legion on, and more than a decade if you want to subscribe to the idea you they were kicking around thoughts about an afterlife/Wrath sequel after Wrath with Sylvanas turning bad... how much more do you need to set up a story?

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...al/1029255.jpg


    Boys Elune does not return Wisp to the Kaldorei that does the forest. You weren't talking about turning them or not Wisp.
    Maybe finish reading the paragraph, and read it carefully.

    "I cannot entirely rule out the interference of Elune, their revered deity, in this matter. As we all know, beings of her origin cannot, under any circumstances, be trusted."

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    So elune didn’t safe the night elfs because her sister needed souls? That’s so incredibly stupid.
    no, she didnt save them bcs she couldnt (like she couldnt save them during war of the ancients)
    she didnt CLAIM THEM for her own purposes bcs her sister needed them more

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    But, wouldn't those souls be consumed as was Ursoc's upon arriving in Ardenweald, if they arrived there as originally planned ?
    Ursoc's soul was only completely consumed because of how dire the situation was. Just as with the souls in Revendreth or anywhere else, a portion of their anima is normally harvested to nurture the Shadowlands.

    As we've clearly established, unless Elune turns out to be a Loki-style trickster deity, Elune didn't have a window into the Shadowlands. She heard her sister's plea, that's all.

  16. #176
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    It took literally 4 years with Legion on, and more than a decade if you want to subscribe to the idea you they were kicking around thoughts about an afterlife/Wrath sequel after Wrath with Sylvanas turning bad... how much more do you need to set up a story?
    Sylvanas isn't "turning bad", is the thing, because we're constantly being spoonfed reasons as to why her actions are justifiable; either it's in service of some Greater Good™ or the Bad Stuff is actually the result of things beyond her control and she suddenly has no agency.

    It's very much in the vein of Infinity War trying to force "Well maybe Thanos has a point?
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  17. #177
    And so ends the Nightwarrior Tyrande story.

    It came out of nothing.
    It achieved nothing.
    It ends with nothing.

    And „fans“ still try to justify this story telling. I find it hilariously bad.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Visually stunning.
    As per usual.

    But the whole bit about willingly letting night elves die just save Ardenweald is such a terribly written excuse.

    Like sweetie, Ardenweald was suffering from an anima drought.
    Meaning no anima nor souls where fueled into the realm.

    Why would she expect that the night elves souls suddenly would?
    Wonder what her excuse for not helping Tyrande kill Sylvannas is.

    Elune = Dreadlord confirmed

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    In the eyes of a deity maybe she thought the temporary pain was an appropriate price for eternal afterlife in the tree of death.
    You know.. you aren't helping her case here.

    "At least the people I committed genocide against went to heaven!"

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by edave22 View Post
    Wonder what her excuse for not helping Tyrande kill Sylvannas is.
    to me it seems like Elune can only "transfer" so much power into SL, so it could either be used to kill Sylva or renew ardenweald/nelfs

    like, "here is ball of plutonium, you can either use it to power your town for couple decades, OR you can nuke some other town, your choice"

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