[Spoilers] Elune talks!!! We finally hear/interact with Elune directly.

[username993720]

The fuck?

She actually collaborated with Sylvanas to send souls to her sister? "Bask in the dying embers of your goddesses' bargain, Tyrande".

Like, i'll scratch your back and you'll scratch mine, but to hell with those affected. Night elven Goddess my ass... from all the creatures she could have sacrificed, she chose her own followers? damn... that's some cold heartless shit right there...

[Peacemoon]

The fuck?

She actually collaborated with Sylvanas to send souls to her sister? "Bask in the dying embers of your goddesses' bargain, Tyrande".

Like, i'll scratch your back and you'll scratch mine, but to hell with those affected. Night elven Goddess my ass... from all the creatures she could have sacrificed, she chose her own followers? damn... that's some cold heartless shit right there...

How people watch this and come to the conclusion Elune is working with Sylvanas is totally mind boggling *facepalm*

[Aucald]

My takeaway with all this is that Elune received Ardenweald's message about the Drought, but was otherwise unaware of the Jailer's machinations concerning the Arbiter and the Maw. She withheld any direct intervention and allowed Teldrassil to play out - knowing that the souls of the Night Elven dead would make their way to her sister's realm and aid in revitalizing it, but unfortunately playing into the Jailer's hands when they were snatched from the stream and sent hurtling into the Jailer's hands. In extension, there's the idea that if the Ardenweald dies then the entire afterlife structure for the Night Elven people follows suit - and so a sacrifice was made of living souls to preserve the greater system, with the hope that there would be eventual renewal in the longer-term scheme of things.

It's a way of closing the narrative schism of BfA and Teldrassil, although it's an exceedingly bitter pill at the end of the day.

[Peacemoon]

My takeaway with all this is that Elune received Ardenweald's message about the Drought, but was otherwise unaware of the Jailer's machinations concerning the Arbiter and the Maw. She withheld any direct intervention and allowed Teldrassil to play out - knowing that the souls of the Night Elven dead would make their way to her sister's realm and aid in revitalizing it, but unfortunately playing into the Jailer's hands when they were snatched from the stream and sent hurtling into the Jailer's hands. In extension, there's the idea that if the Ardenweald dies then the entire afterlife structure for the Night Elven people follows suit - and so a sacrifice was made of living souls to preserve the greater system, with the hope that there would be eventual renewal in the longer-term scheme of things.

It's a way of closing the narrative schism of BfA and Teldrassil, although it's an exceedingly bitter pill at the end of the day.

Correct but she says “in the wake of such tragedy”, which means she had no part to play in whether the tragedy happened or not not, simply that it did happen and she chose what to do with their souls afterwards.

I don’t think it’s plausible to think that Elune could have/should have intervened. She never has before on such a grand scale and likely never will.

Also Teldrassil was a cursed tree that was always going to be the harbinger of ruin for the Night Elves.

[Nerovar]

It's a way of closing the narrative schism of BfA and Teldrassil, although it's an exceedingly bitter pill at the end of the day.

Pretty sure Night Elf fans are quite familiar with the taste of those pills at this point.

[Nagawithlegs]

It's a way of closing the narrative schism of BfA and Teldrassil, although it's an exceedingly bitter pill at the end of the day.

Any reveal that Elune isn't powerful enough to have stopped Teldrassil will be bitter. But I think it's important to note she called them her Chosen people.

[Jackstraw]

Pretty sure Night Elf fans are quite familiar with the taste of those balls at this point.

I took the liberty to fix it for you.

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It's just beautiful. Peak Night Elf writing right here.

Exhilarating, isn't it?
It would even be somehow a compelling piece of story were it not for the glaring plot contrivancies we have to navigate to make some sense out of it all.

[Aucald]

Correct but she says “in the wake of such tragedy”, which means she had no part to play in whether the tragedy happened or not not, simply that it did happen and she chose what to do with their souls afterwards.

I don’t think it’s plausible to think that Elune could have/should have intervened. She never has before on such a grand scale and likely never will.

Also Teldrassil was a cursed tree that was always going to be the harbinger of ruin for the Night Elves.

Elune *has* intervened, though. She intervened during the War of the Ancients when she shielded Tyrande in a luminous barrier that not even Archimonde could pierce. She touched both the wildkin/moonkin and the nightsabers directly. She acted directly to redeem Avrus Illwhisper, Eranikus, and Driana. She also granted Jarod Shadowsong a boon in re-experiencing his life with Shalasyr on the occasion of her death. Whether or not she would have intervened at Darkshore and Teldrassil is unknown, but she seems to relate in the latest Covenant campaign that she withheld intervention so that the sacrifice of the Night Elves would help in the restoration of the Ardenweald.

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Any reveal that Elune isn't powerful enough to have stopped Teldrassil will be bitter. But I think it's important to note she called them her Chosen people.

None of the higher power entities in the Warcraft pantheon are omniscient or omnipotent - powerful, yes, but they're all necessary bounded in a variety of ways. Elune may be one of the most powerful but she's still got limits, as this sad interlude is at pains to show us.

[Peacemoon]

Elune *has* intervened, though. She intervened during the War of the Ancients when she shielded Tyrande in a luminous barrier that not even Archimonde could pierce. She touched both the wildkin/moonkin and the nightsabers directly. She acted directly to redeem Avrus Illwhisper, Eranikus, and Driana. She also granted Jarod Shadowsong a boon in re-experiencing his life with Shalasyr on the occasion of her death. Whether or not she would have intervened at Darkshore and Teldrassil is unknown, but she seems to relate in the latest Covenant campaign that she withheld intervention so that the sacrifice of the Night Elves would help in the restoration of the Ardenweald.

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None of the higher power entities in the Warcraft pantheon are omniscient or omnipotent - powerful, yes, but they're all necessary bounded in a variety of ways. Elune may be one of the most powerful but she's still got limits, as this sad interlude is at pains to show us.

I think my point would be that Elune can intervene on an individual basis, but not on the scale needed to save Teldrassil.

According to the lore in Ardenweald her most potent intervention is to create a Night Warrior, which she did for Tyrande but not until after the events had already taken place.

[qwerty123456]

I don't think she let them die, it's just very poorly presented and so a lot of people will end up with that takeaway. The narrative as presented is that the Winter Queen knew a drought was going on but not the cause and so called her sister for help. Elune saw an opportunity when she saw the tree burn and instead of putting them through the sorting process she fast-tracked them to Ardenweald after soothing their pain. Then they ended up in the Maw.

Elune's exact level of power, awareness of the situation in Azeroth and the Shadowlands, the contents of the Winter Queen's message etc. are all unclear and unsaid by the narrative. However, as @Jackstraw says having her first spoken appearance to her family - already all unnecessary elements be the equivalent of "Oh, fuck, sorry I sent you guys to hell" and have it be followed up by her putting her champion into a false choice that she engineered by taking her powers away at a key moment won't exactly endear this very visually boring cinematic to its intended audience or really any audience to speak of it.

It makes her seem really inept. Like can she not communicate with her "sister" unless she has an avatar? She can apparently hear prayers across multiple dimensions and knows whats going on in the physical universe and yet can't figure out that while souls are still dying the drought obviously isn't a supply problem.

I wonder if they just wanted to show us again that Elune's tears are powerful and they couldn't figure out a way to make her cry so they went with a dumb Elune who accidentally sent the night elves to the maw.

They should have just had her know the future so all her inaction or actions have always just been for the greater good or what ever.

[Nagawithlegs]

Linking this in the clearly more popular thread.



Elune is more than likely a Life god and that's why she knew about the drought/not the specifics.

[voidox]

look, the part on how Elune let the NE souls go into the SL instead of becoming wisps was fine, dunno why some people are confused about it or complaining, it makes sense

And no, clearly Elune didn't want or let the genocide happen as she said "in the wake of tragedy"

EDIT - and based on the Primus dialouge, it confirms Elune is part of the pantheon of life... cause every cosmic force now needs a pantheon. Either way, she's clearly not the capital-G god of warcraft as some people speculated before, she's more on the WQ tier of power and status.

makes sense for her influence as well, the Eternal Ones have domain only in the SL and power over death, while the pantheon of life have domain and power on the "plane of life"

---

now back to the cinematic:

what is not fine is the vengeance or renewal line, cause that right there is 100% confirmation that the night elves are NOT going to get any sort of justice or revenge for a GENOCIDE. The horde are going to walk scot-free from being part of a genocide

liked we predicted, Tyrande is now going to be all "omg I'm no longer angry" and will go back to the night elves with "oh it's all fine now, the genocide was no biggie, no one was punished but that's okay cause it's all about healing now"

she'll probably go to the horde and apologise to them for being "too aggressive", then when Sylvanus gets her redemption, Tyrande will probably also apologise to her as well

so there it is, you can commit/be involved in a genocide and face 0 consequences or repercussions at all... heck, you don't even have to seek forgiveness from those left after the genocide, they will apologise to you

oh, and the entire night warrior storyline has been a huge disappointment and flat out dumb

top tier writing

[Lothaeryn]

Hey Algalon, did the Titans ever mention a universal Re-Origination device that they were keeping out of Sargeras' hands by any chance?

[Aucald]

I think my point would be that Elune can intervene on an individual basis, but not on the scale needed to save Teldrassil.

According to the lore in Ardenweald her most potent intervention is to create a Night Warrior, which she did for Tyrande but not until after the events had already taken place.

Unknown, although Tyrande and Elune herself seem to imply it was possible, and perhaps even desired on Elune's part. Perhaps Elune permitted Tyrande to become the Night Warrior when the sacrifice of Teldrassil failed to change the plight of Ardenweald, and by extension allowed Tyrande to survive the normally fatal undertaking when she discovered what had actually happened to the dead of Teldrassil.

[username993720]

How people watch this and come to the conclusion Elune is working with Sylvanas is totally mind boggling *facepalm*

"I sent some souls to you". Not "i let some souls get to you"

[Xilurm]

Linking this in the clearly more popular thread.



Elune is more than likely a Life god and that's why she knew about the drought/not the specifics.

Wonder where she's at then. The Emerald Dream?

[Nagawithlegs]

Wonder where she's at then. The Emerald Dream?

ED is, as of recent lore, a pocket realm of Azeroth specifically that Eonar created using the powers of the Life realm.

Think Helya and the Shadowlands.

[RoKPaNda]

I mean the gods in WarCraft have never really cared about their followers much when it counted. Look at Tirion. Now I guess the elves learned that lesson the hardest of hard ways.

[Corroc]

Does this mean Tyrande was actually Elune the whole time when she was Night Warrior?

[Kathranis]

My takeaway with all this is that Elune received Ardenweald's message about the Drought, but was otherwise unaware of the Jailer's machinations concerning the Arbiter and the Maw. She withheld any direct intervention and allowed Teldrassil to play out - knowing that the souls of the Night Elven dead would make their way to her sister's realm and aid in revitalizing it, but unfortunately playing into the Jailer's hands when they were snatched from the stream and sent hurtling into the Jailer's hands. In extension, there's the idea that if the Ardenweald dies then the entire afterlife structure for the Night Elven people follows suit - and so a sacrifice was made of living souls to preserve the greater system, with the hope that there would be eventual renewal in the longer-term scheme of things.

It's a way of closing the narrative schism of BfA and Teldrassil, although it's an exceedingly bitter pill at the end of the day.

My only issue with your take is the assumption that Elune had the power to stop Teldrassil from happening in the first place. She has never prevented anything of that scale before.

And then you have to question whether it's even her place to intervene at all. Personally, I think that's the more interesting narrative direction. Even if Elune is a purely benevolent deity, can mortals really rely on some aloof deity to get them out of every tough spot?

I feel like this sort of echoes Illidan's perspective in Legion. Mortals need to take fate into their own hands.