But Night Elf can turn into whisps so even if there is no special Elune-life afterlife she could have turned them all into wisps and that way not entering SL.
Also (some) Trolls have an alternative afterlife aswell.
Which one? Maybe it's just there for speculation content.
We have enough cases where spirits get passed by the Arbiter so I don't think this is a problem.
Elune is the power set over Life, and the realms of Death were themselves dying due to Drought, which would in turn likely collapse the entire metacosm as they are all inextricably bound. The Winter Queen needed an influx of anima to sustain Death, and so Elune appears to have earmarked a collection of souls to Ardenweald to fix the problem (not knowing that Zovaal had broken the system and would claim those souls). We don't really know if she was going to bypass the Arbiter, so to speak, as it may well be in Elune's purview to decide where those souls would go, given the Night Elves seem to be her people, so to speak.
There's a lot of known unknowns, though; so right now it's all down to speculation and hypotheticals.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.
From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.
He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.
How does this let Sylvanas off the hook? She still ordered the burning of the tree, regardless of what Elune may or may not have wanted. We still know she was attempting to maximize casualties during the war. She's still culpable for her actions.
Bwonsamdi specifically moves troll souls to De Other Side, even when the Arbiter is broken (he has Rastakhan's soul, for instance, and Rastakhan died well after the machine of death allegedly broke). We also know that Elune had some hand in ferrying Ysera's soul to Ardenweald. Given that, I think there's good supporting evidence toward the theory that the majority of Elune's people would go to Ardenweald under normal circumstances. However, we also know that not all of them do, since the Stonewright and Khalliq were also Elune worshippers, and obviously the Night Elves from Teldrassil went to the Maw, so the Arbiter still plays some role.
De Other Side appears to be a temporary waystation for souls, given that we see the souls of trolls in Bastion, Ardenweald, and (at least based on nomenclature) Revendreth as well. It seems the basic set-up is that Bwonsamdi vouchsafes souls in his realm for a time, possibly to extract a toll of anima, and then releases said souls to the Arbiter so they can reach an ultimate destination in one of the many realms of the Shadowlands. Bwonsamdi can still hold onto souls at current in De Other Side, but there's a powerful "pull" being exerted by the Maw - Bwonsamdi relates in Shadows Rising that his grip is both tenuous and can't last long if the current state of affairs in Oribos persists.
As for the kaldorei souls, there seems to be a variety of possible outcomes that might not necessarily imply Ardenweald is their default destination or even the majority one. Elune could use their racial link to the Emerald Dream to tie them to her realm, presumably that of Life, and so use their anima or the corresponding essence in the realms of Life to fuel Life itself, perhaps in the form of Wisps or any number of possible outcomes. It's just that in this case, due to the suffering of Ardenweald and the pleas of her sister in Death, she earmarked the dead of Teldrassil for Death instead of ushering them into her own realm, as a way of trying to restore balance to the cosmic cycle that exists between them.
Again, this is entirely hypothetical at the moment as we don't know how Elune or her realm functions.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Hypothetically speaking. With all this cinematic suddenly Tyrande does not seek Justice.
I see it as either "if he seeks Justice now he has to kill Elune as well." Being that Elune works as a shield.
Or that now Elune is the one who competes the Kaldorei for her failure. And then the debs hope that is also compensation for the Horde and Sylvanas.
Sylvanas' plan in short was: Kill Malfurion, break the spirit of the Kaldorei, hold them hostage until the Alliance came to liberate them, and then pounce on Stormwind for the anima.
Elune stops Saurfang from killing Malfurion, making Sylvanas' plan awash and she had to improvise. This is exactly what causes the split decision to burn Teldrassil.
"Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.
Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.
She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!
Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!"
The War of Thorns could well have been Elune guiding her sheep off the cliff, right into The Maw.
Night Elves follow Elune -far more blindly- than the Horde did Sylvanas. The Horde doubted Sylvanas every step of the way. Are we sure this is about her?
Crackpot theory: Titans imprisoned Elune in the Pale Lady, (this creates the first Tear), and Elune bargained with Zovaal to reforge reality. She fed the Maw knowingly, believing the cost was worth the outcome. Now that Zovaal has gone off the wall evil, she will take him out once she's freed.
She may not have known what Sylvanas would do, but are we to just take it for granted that Elune couldn't think ahead to what saving Malfurion would do?
Is Elune just as short-mannered as Sylvanas? lol Likely not, I sure hope not at least.
DRAGONMIRE BINGO2024 - 11.0 - The 10th Expansion - The 20th Anniversary of World of WarcraftFor Azeroth!
You’re suggesting that Elune knew about the souls going to the Maw when the cinematic directly says the opposite?
Also Elune didn’t stop Saurfang from killing Malfurion. He stopped on his own
The Troll afterlife has been revealed to be a subsection of Ardenweald, unless you count Hakkar's belly. And the Whisp thing has suffered almost as inconsistent characterisation as Elune herself, on which i already had several tangents, in other threads and maybe even this one.
It's froma twitter discussion with Belular and Nobbel. T&E aren't all too keen on covering WoW any sooner than they absolutely have to outside contract obligations, with sponsors.Which one? Maybe it's just there for speculation content.
I see some similarities, but it strikes me more as an assocciation than actual repeat track, after listening to videos i could find.
Then there is still the logic flaw of her feeling responsible, for what would effectively be sending something via post office and finding out it was violently robbed, with all the packages and letters stolen, in which case there would be no reason for her to take ownership of it as her own mistake since she would not have directly contributed.We have enough cases where spirits get passed by the Arbiter so I don't think this is a problem.
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I would personally view it as Tyrande being shown her life means more than Sylvanas's death to those who care about her including Elune. Since Elune clearly plays favorites even among her favorites.
I know it's tripe and clishe in all the possible ways, but if we take Elune as a primarily constructive force within the setting the Night Warrior could be potentially interpreted as an almost dark shaman like brute force invocation, where her power is not really meant to be used like that then it makes sense she would push toward nurturing and even rehabilitation, while saving Tyrande would require Tyrande to willfully relinquish it.
Part of Elune's normal portfolio of attributes is serenity, contemplation, peace, and harmony - it's quite likely that Tyrande touched this aspect of Elune during their communion in Ardenweald and it helped to smooth away some of anger and rage. Whether you call that "mind control" is a bit subjective, but I would definitely say that the presence of Elune had a profound effect on her (as well as the notion that there was some recourse for the kaldorei in light of what happened at Teldrassil).
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Yes the huge sword plunged into azeroth, which we drained with our artifact weapons, at the end of Legion, when it radiated dark red. According to RPG it was sentient and large portions surrounding that were canonised so it could make for a twist, when Blizz decides to reveal what wrecked the Arbiter.
Lol.......
Let me make it real simple: Teldrassil ( burning happens). In normal times all the night elves that died would have become wisps. But instead they where sent to the shadowlands by elune.
So they where no longer alive. The way you become a wisp is to die :P. My god, that is basic wow.
Yes! Great post. As you pointed out, and ive mentioned before, its NOT Elunes role to be God (with a capital G) and be the sole arbiter of what deaths should be 'allowed' in reality. Directly stopping all deaths on a whim, even 'her favoured children', and even at the hand of tragedy like the elves and Teldrassil, is not Elunes place - and could even be called a violation of The Great Cycle itself. This is likely why shes intervened so rarely over the years.
Look I understand lots of people, over ~20 years of buildup, expect Elune to be the ultimate Goddess (with a capital G) of Warcraft. And... shes not - and people are understandably a little confused/shocked/dissappointed. To suddenly find out Elune is not all powerful, not all-knowing.. and not infallible.
Personally I think this makes Elune a more interesting character. It would be boring if she was all-everything.
I also think us players naturally think of Life+Death in completely different ways to cosmic powers like Elune/Winter Queen. Life and death is merely the turning of a page, in an endless book of pages (ie the great cycle). Its not some kind of ultimate defining moment or end. People think "Elune didnt stop the DEATH of the elves", like thats an enormous defining end-event. That makes sense with a human context, but not from cosmic context - for them its just another page turn in the great cycle.
Last edited by TyrianFC; 2021-07-29 at 08:03 PM.
That's a really poor take on it. She said she was as much a witness as Shandris, and Shandris was right there. It means Tyrande felt separate to her physical body that was having the conversation.
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Some could become wisps and I'd say the evidence seen right across Azeroth implies a lot would stick around to be vengeful or at least disgruntled spirits.
A lot would probably have been cast off to other afterlives. While all NElves have some sort of connection to nature they aren't all dedicated wood-warriors full time. Many probably go to whatever plane of existence best suits them.
Btw, Tyrande in the new quest just confirmed that she picked renewal over retribution :
"I see now that while many of our people desire retribution, what we need most is renewal".
This is for people who still defend this writing and used tons of mental gymnastic and hypocrisy to make it sounds like that Tyrande could have still both renewal and justice.