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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    To Elune, these are wins.
    That really brings solace to those who lost their family, especially in the light of the fact that Elune did not deem it necessary to inform *anyone* about this until her sister, whom we have heard nothing about until recently, "met" Elune in the freaking Afterlive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Tyrande is the bridge to a new way of thinking in seeing that death is not the end, and to be feared, but simply a new beginning or continuance of the current existence. Which is what lead her to her current state and letting go of her vengenance.
    Which in return devalues the entire atrocity that is the Burning of Teldrassil.

    If death has no meaning, then so does murder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    That does not make what Sylvanas did right or just, but it does take away the significance (which is what I have issue with).
    Blizzard writers are attempting deeper meaning with their storytelling, and they do succeed with some cases yet fail with others.
    I very much disagree for the point stated above.
    The very reason why society treats murder as such a horrible crime because you take something that cannot be given back, when you however create a narrative where death is something that has little meaning in the long run, you are indirectly making people care less about those deaths.

    And the concept of choosing renewal over punishment in the current situation of Blizzard as a whole is downright hilarious.

  2. #262
    I watch 30 seconds of this bullshit and all I feel is anger

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    the concept of choosing contractual renewal over punishment in the current situation of Blizzard as a whole is downright hilarious.
    That's all they needed to paint a quite accurate picture of the plight of several ladies at Irvine...
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    That really brings solace to those who lost their family, especially in the light of the fact that Elune did not deem it necessary to inform *anyone* about this until her sister, whom we have heard nothing about until recently, "met" Elune in the freaking Afterlive.

    Which in return devalues the entire atrocity that is the Burning of Teldrassil.

    If death has no meaning, then so does murder.

    I very much disagree for the point stated above.
    The very reason why society treats murder as such a horrible crime because you take something that cannot be given back, when you however create a narrative where death is something that has little meaning in the long run, you are indirectly making people care less about those deaths.

    And the concept of choosing renewal over punishment in the current situation of Blizzard as a whole is downright hilarious.
    Did you not read my entire post before responding?
    1). To Elune, she did nothing wrong. It’s a matter of perspective. To her, letting her followers die painlessly, to go on and save reality and Ardenweald, with the ability to rest peacefully or be reborn is not a bad thing.
    2). My post later went on to state it takes away the significance of the NEs dying.
    3). Again, I posted it takes away significance. However, the flip side to your argument is also the reason things like hell exists in direct opposition to heaven. The way we live our lives determines our fate in death. So, in game, we have Rivendreth, and even for worse rates, the Maw. So it could be argued that how people live in life (in the context of WoW’s now established afterlife) will determine their fate, and it absolutely does matter how they live and put consequence on it without taking away meaning to how they live.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    1). To Elune, she did nothing wrong. It’s a matter of perspective. To her, letting her followers die painlessly, to go on and save reality and Ardenweald, with the ability to rest peacefully or be reborn is not a bad thing.
    Look, if i have to explain to a deity that letting people die (which is in their mind, is the end of their existence) who worship you, will result in them losing faith, then said deity is not worthy of any worship.
    Ever.

    If basic empathy is that absent within a being, it's not worthy of an inkling of respect, let alone worship.

    I reiterate: The Night elves_did_not_know_about this, nor did Elune do *anything* to inform the survivors about the situation, whose faith was certainly shaken in Elune - for very good reasons.

    In order to get an actual answer, the high priestess of Elune had to travel to the Afterlive (which only opened up because of the very person that burned Teldrassil), talk to the so far unknown Sister of Elune and only received that revelation once Elune was talking to said sister.
    That information was not even targeted at the Night elves, they received that info by sheer circumstance, because Elune had to make amends with her sister and basically said: "Sis, i let my chosen people burn to help you!".

    But of course, giving her the power to pursue vengeance - no problemo - until said vengeance is literally within their grasp, then that becomes a big no no.

    It is complete lunacy on Elune's part to not share this information_at_any_point directly with the night elves.
    The reason why Elune withheld this critical piece of information are completely absent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    2). My post later went on to state it takes away the significance of the NEs dying.
    And that in turn means that the genocide a certain someone comitted means less.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    So it could be argued that how people live in life (in the context of WoW’s now established afterlife) will determine their fate, and it absolutely does matter how they live and put consequence on it without taking away meaning to how they live.
    In other words, we should not seek out justice ourselves, we should let some cosmic being handle it for us.
    After all, if someone commits a crime, the Afterlive will punish them for it, no need to even attempt to seek out atonement, Revendreth will do that.

    Again, great Meta message, Blizzard.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-29 at 07:23 PM.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Look, if a have to explain to a deity that letting people die (which is in their mind, is the end of their existence) who worship you, will result in them losing faith, then said deity is not worthy of any worship.
    Ever.

    If basic empathy is that absent within a being, it's not worthy of an inkling of respect, let alone worship.

    I reiterate: The Night elves_did_not_know_about this, nor did Elune do *anything* to inform the survivors about the situation, whose faith was certainly shaken in Elune - for very good reasons.

    In order to get an actual answer, the high priestess of Elune had to travel to the Afterlive (which only opened up because of the very person that burned Teldrassil), talk to the so far unknown Sister of Elune and only received that revelation once Elune was talking to said sister.
    That information was not even targeted at the Night elves, they received that info by sheer circumstance, because Elune had to make amends with her sister and basically said: "Sis, i let my chosen people burn to help you!".

    But of course, giving her the power to pursue vengeance - no problemo - until said vengeance is literally within their grasp, then that becomes a big no no.

    It is complete lunacy on Elune's part to not share this information_at_any_point directly with the night elves.
    The reason why Elune withheld this critical piece of information are completely absent.

    And that in turn means that the genocide a certain someone comitted means less.

    In other words, we should not seek out justice ourselves, we should let some cosmic being handle it for us.
    After all, if someone commits a crime, the Afterlive will punish them for it, no need to even attempt to seek out atonement, Revendreth will do that.

    Again, great Meta message, Blizzard.
    1). But it doesn’t result in them losing faith. Hell, in Tyrande’s experience it seems to have strengthened it because she has realized that her people can still go on and what Elune’s plan was. To the survivor’s, they know nothing about what Elune did. So far, only Tyrande, you, and Sandris, along with the denizens of the Shadowlands know about this. The denizens of Azeroth have no idea about Elune’s involvement and still pray and worship her. If you still can’t figure this out, look to any real life religion where atrocities have occurred to the people and they still have faith and worship their respective god(s).
    2). At this point you are arguing something while agreeing with me. I’ve stated, twice now, that it takes away the significance of the issue. You then post a reply that comes off as an argument while stating the same thing I already stated but with different words.
    3). Do you just argue to argue? I’ve stated the impact of what you do in life determines what happens in death. That is the moral aspect of how you live. Now, you want to argue another topic that we’ve never discussed in some “AHA! GOTCHA!” moment. Of course people would be punished in life for transgressions and deeds, hence why Garrosh was going to be punished for his crimes against multiple races, why we went to war with Deathwing when he challenged the world, and why multiple factions went hunting after Nathanos and Sylvanas to bring them to justice for what they did.
    Punishments & rewards exist both in life and death in the game. How you live is going to affect your afterlife, while also affecting how your life goes while live.
    Any other asinine point(s) you want to discuss to try and argue?

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    1). To Elune, she did nothing wrong. It’s a matter of perspective. To her, letting her followers die painlessly, to go on and save reality and Ardenweald, with the ability to rest peacefully or be reborn is not a bad thing.
    All done without any consent of those affected most. But it's a Blizzard story so at least that part is congruent.

  8. #268
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    My opinion:

    I really hear her say "in the wake of tragedy"
    For me it means: After the burning of the tree, Elune guided the souls from there to Ardenweald.
    She had no part in killing the elves.

    Okay maybe she could have intervened, I don't know

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    1). But it doesn’t result in them losing faith.
    You know about all those Night elves that got ressurected by the Forsaken because they felt...forsaken by Elune?
    You know that Tyrande did essentially demand the power of the Nightwarrior from Elune?
    Tyrande Whisperwind says: Elune! Your people loved you! Yet you watched, distant and aloof, as they died in torment!
    Tyrande Whisperwind says: I served you for millennia. But tonight, I do not come as a maiden, mother, or even priestess.
    Tyrande Whisperwind says: Now, I will serve you only if you grant me justice!
    Sure sounds super faithful and not at all like an ultimatum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    2). At this point you are arguing something while agreeing with me. I’ve stated, twice now, that it takes away the significance of the issue. You then post a reply that comes off as an argument while stating the same thing I already stated but with different words.
    The point is that the loss significance will likely be used to let a character off the hook who certainly does not deserve this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Of course people would be punished in life for transgressions and deeds
    The plot right now is driving towards redeeming someone that comitted genocide.
    It's pretty obvious what i mean, this isn't about not stopping any active threat, this is about that people should just let someone go scott free despite serious wrongdoings because they'll suffer in the Afterlife.

    Stopping Deathwing or Garrosh wasn't "seeking justice" first and foremost, it's self defense, those are two seperate things.

  10. #270

  11. #271
    I just love this abeslutely 13 IQ story they are telling. So Ellune let it happend. to help her sister. the genocide of the night elfs. so lets just forgive sylvanas.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by wargone View Post
    I just love this abeslutely 13 IQ story they are telling. So Ellune let it happend. to help her sister. the genocide of the night elfs. so lets just forgive sylvanas.
    yeah, from this comment its clear its your understanding thats problem, not the story... the story is so simple yet people still misunderstand it ffs...
    is this what people who never read anything more complicated than picturebook think like?!
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-07-30 at 06:29 AM.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, from this comment its clear its your understanding thats problem, not the story... the story is so simple yet people still misunderstand it ffs...
    is this what people who never read anything more complicated than picturebook think like?!
    So you are the one true interpreter of what Danuser & co. meant with this atrocious piece of writing. Please educate us unwashed peasants about what this is all about, according to your state-of-the-art brain.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  14. #274
    So did uhhh... Elune ask Sylvanas to burn down the tree or something? What if Sylvanas just decided not to burn down the tree and went with her initial plans of occupying Teldrassil; does that mean that Elune wasn't really planning to help the Winter Queen?

    I know it probably seems like nitpicking, but this seems really silly.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, from this comment its clear its your understanding thats problem, not the story... the story is so simple yet people still misunderstand it ffs...
    is this what people who never read anything more complicated than picturebook think like?!
    It not that i dont story, i am just not a fan of the story being told.
    i strongly dislike what happend to teldrassil, and night elf people, for what was pretty much a "oh look how shocking, major change will happend now"
    that pretty much ones more boiled down to garrosh 2.0. With as few concerense.

    but this is somewhat more insulting. So she let it happend to help her sister... GREAT, that makes up for the story impact of the night elf. And, so since it is by Ellunes will, It somehow okay? And grand epic story telling? And not just someone going " why was Luke on a randomass planet drinking blue space milk? cus fuck you that why"
    So, blizzard is 100% going to use this " oh it was ellunes will" so, lets forgive sylvanas, because, she is also just innocent, she was either compelled to do it. or she did it, just because she did not know better, or it was just to get her soul, Or because She realised the" engine of death is broken, so she just so smart and will save us"
    - So I think i get the story, i just dont like this whole, Sylvanas was right, and it was by ellunes will. and ones more, the hordes Sins are forgotten because "look a buttefly"

  16. #276
    Now that it is official pandering to the derange doesn't pay off I wonder if we'll start getting sexy goddesses again?

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    The majority of them didn't feel that, as the novel describes it as elune sending them sleep letting them pass in peace, you know instead of actually intervening.
    I was just going to say this, as I read up on it as well. It describes one priestess falling into blissful slumber, as well as everyone around her. They didn't feel a thing. Elune spared them the pain.
    Karma always has the last laugh.

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