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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomer View Post
    A leaked image of JAB in the upcoming Blizzconline



    This will definitely make everyone happy and make all their problems disappear!
    Holy shit, I spat out my drink. Thanks for that one.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmot View Post
    What exactly is woke about removing references to Alex Afrasiabi? I get being tired of seeing woke shit everywhere you look but this isn't that. They're removing references to an abusive individual. It's not taking away significant dev time. It's just changing some words in some quests and some NPC names.
    "we also want to take immediate action in Azeroth to remove references that are not appropriate for our world"

    Where did you read these changes are only about Afrasiabi? Because the way i read it, they're changing things that "might be offensive" and turn wow into a safe space.

    I hope i'm wrong, but i think this isn't just about removing Afrasiabi references.

  3. #283
    It gets harder and harder to support this company. Last two expansions have left a lot to be desired. I am paying $15 a month to play TBC because I find it more enjoyable than the modern product. Then you find out the work place at the organization is a toxic cesspool that has actually driven an employee to suicide. The management team essentially shields these individuals. Then to deflect from holding people accountable for their behavior, they basically go and whitewash the game - a franchise that is literally built on racism because the races are trying to commit genocide, but god forbid this NPC being named after someone or a /flirt emote making someone feel uncomfortable. Whitewashing is never an answer - just design with modern values going forward.

    All of this on top of Blizzard being a Chinese shill with the overwatch tournament, the re-release of WC3 (which was the most exciting announcement at that year's Blizzcon), and other news and I am pretty close to giving these guys the old Jagex treatment I gave them over their MTX practices. It has been nothing but constant black eyes for Blizzard for four years now. They don't even have decent customer support anymore after firing all of their competent support staff to increase the accounting sheets earning Bobby those bonuses.
    Last edited by Deferionus; 2021-07-28 at 12:58 PM.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    Blizzard bowed to Israel and banned people in EU servers when they tried to host a protest in support of palestine, blizzard also bowed to Spain and banned players from Catalone and players who supported Catalone's independence and tried to host online protest in WoW. Somehow you don't mention these incidents. Is it because Israel and Spain are US and EU allies? Hypocrite much?
    i didn't mention them cause i'd never heard of those events. shouldn't just assume people don't mention things because they don't care.

  5. #285
    Why does every thread become a shit show about US politics? Always this left-right non-sense and the ability to reason is out the window...

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    Yeah - how dare they try to repair their brand image and make people see that they're trying to fix the horrible mistakes they've made in the past, instead of giving you a little happiness when you click on your favorite pixels. How dare they.

    Honestly, the selfishness of some of you... How many universes do you think revolve around you, anyway?
    Selfishness? Is that really what you think that this is about, while indirectly implying that removing references of someone in a game means that they're working on "repairing brand imagine" and "fixing horrible mistakes"? Blizzard's brand image was one of quality gaming products and they've got very little of that now, resting on the laurels of decades past.

    I can tell you which universe doesn't revolve around me as the average fan of the franchise and customer; it is the universe of World of Warcraft. Quite frankly, fans/customers always come last with Blizzard, while their emotions, self-inserts and view of the world always come first.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-07-28 at 01:50 PM.

  7. #287
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    i didn't mention them cause i'd never heard of those events. shouldn't just assume people don't mention things because they don't care.
    And why do you think you never heard of it? Ever thought that your point of view is skewed and biased and you intake information that only revolves around that biased? And you always judge everything according to your skewerd point of view? Think about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Did they? I wasn’t aware of this. If so, Blizzars can take a flying fuck as far as my custom is concerned. Haven’t been a paying customer for ages, won’t be again. Share links please. Want to see information.
    There is a reason you aren't aware of this, there is a reason no media felt it was necessary to report it. There is a reason why blizzard managed to swiftly push those issues under rug, because nobody in the west cares until this shit happens in russia or china or cuba.
    Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was the game that brought me into gaming. I was 17 years old then, I abhorred gaming before this game. From then on, I became a fan of Warcraft and Blizzard. To see it all go down the drain like this is truly sad for me. No king rules forever but at least some of them went down in history as real badasses. I hoped Blizzard and Warcraft would be one of them but it is no longer possible.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    And why do you think you never heard of it? Ever thought that your point of view is skewed and biased and you intake information that only revolves around that biased? And you always judge everything according to your skewerd point of view? Think about it.

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    There is a reason you aren't aware of this, there is a reason no media felt it was necessary to report it. There is a reason why blizzard managed to swiftly push those issues under rug, because nobody in the west cares until this shit happens in russia or china or cuba.
    Part of me wants it to not be true, and hope for better. But then the other part is like...what a fucking surprise.

  9. #289
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    At least one good thing came from this shit; Preach quits. Thank fucking god. Bellular next, please.
    Hi

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    And why do you think you never heard of it? Ever thought that your point of view is skewed and biased and you intake information that only revolves around that biased? And you always judge everything according to your skewerd point of view? Think about it.
    i follow a very diverse set of general and specific news outlets. some examples being taliesin, bellular, mmochamp, preach (not really news but he covers notable topics that come up), asmongold (same as preach), yongyea, and legacykillaHD. i make sure i find people who challenge my views but aren't total dicks.

    though the fact you just assume i'm a malicious piece of crap because i had never heard of these events even though i follow most of the major wow news outlets. maybe you should stop being hostile to people from the get go?

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Thes View Post
    Better for who? The sexually harassed employees?
    Hopefully the players.

  12. #292
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomer View Post
    If this doesn't prove to you that they only care about their image and nothing else, then I don't know what will.
    Of course Blizzard cares about their image. Brand is image. Not caring about their image would be incredibly stupid.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    What does any of this have to do with "Marginalised groups"?

    The legal undertaking is specifically about sexual harassment. Last time I checked, this wasn't an issue specific to minority ethnic groups or sexualities. Enough with the fucking woke shit, root out the bad apples and fix your god damn game
    It absolutely is specific to women and the State of California has laid their case out for all to see. If you can't be bothered to read up on what the actual situation is maybe you should sit down and shut the fuck up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beuargh View Post
    all those "message to all employees" and "internal letters" are really not supposed to stay internal, AMARITE ??

    this is damage control making more damage IMO, but I guess there is people ready to eat that shit like this dude is not just trying to save his ass.... just STFU, solve the problems and let the employees report about how good it is to work at blizzard now. that's the only opinions that matter on the issue, not what the head of the company want us to believe. talk is cheap for this dude ATM...
    No one honestly believes any of the bullshit ATVI/Blizzard leadership is spewing lately. Pandora's box is open and everything is coming out whether they like it or not. I am glad existing Blizzard employees are standing up for themselves and speaking out about what has been going on and we need a lot more of that to keep happening if there is any hope of Blizzard redeeming themselves. Sadly I have zero faith in Blizzard at this point and the whole fucking company can do down in flames for all I care. All the existing talent at Blizzard who aren't rapists or creeps will easily find work elsewhere in the industry.

    And yes this is coming from someone who spent the better part of the past 10 years constantly being accused of being a Blizzard fanboy. I finally see Blizzard for what it is now and what it represents and I will not spend one more cent on any of their games until they actually change how they treat their employees (and obviously change how they develop games as well). It is sad because I was really looking forward to the D2 remaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    Not really, maybe in the sense that the employees really stands up for them selves. But the actual problem is equal or the same. Riots were in exactly the same situation with a lawsuit from California about pretty much the same issues. Ubisoft was even a bigger scale since it truned out that over 20+ studios they own had this problem and it was a total shitshow.
    Hopefully this case brings much needed attention to an industry wide problem. It isn't even just game development but tech in general where these issues are especially bad. Women have contributed a lot to game development and tech in the past 20 years and it is reprehensible that any of them are being treated the way they are still when many are at the same level or above their male counterparts in talent and innovation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    You should read the legal document that started this. It's about a lot more than sexual harassment.

    https://regmedia.co.uk/2021/07/22/ac..._complaint.pdf
    It is sad that people don't understand that the wage gap between men and women is still very real and entrenched in some industries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vowrawn View Post
    That's not being a "sociopath", that's being an adult. Adults control their emotions, and don't have crybaby meltdowns over being "offended", like toddlers.
    This is about sexual harassment and other workplace issues. It has fuck all to do with being offended or woke. Fucking give it a rest already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    I have, there's an awful lot of the Socialist Republic of California in the legal document. I wholeheartedly agree they should root out the bad apples, but there's also a lot of conjecture and loose claims (i.e half of gamers in America are female - we know this data to include mobile gaming, facebook games etc where women make up a sizable majority of users. I am yet to see any data to back up claims that online gaming, console gaming, PC gaming is split evenly between male and females

    They go on with the standard crap about the percentage of women working for the company. i really don't care, and neither should anyone else. I couldn't care if it was 80% women, the percentage is really irrelevant, and a lot of this is more looking like the State of California doing what the State of California tries to push ideologically.

    The criminal elements should be handled by a court, as I suspect they will. The marxist ideological elements should be entirely removed from the document altogether
    Almost everything in this case has been corroborated by numerous current and former Blizzard employees. It isn't conjecture. Blizzard isn't even denying any of it so you might want to think long and hard on why that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Once again, a lot of the people having a bad time at Blizzard are probably the devs and artists. Sure, some of them are probably part of the IT department but just making a general statement that anyone working at Blizzard can get an IT job anywhere else is just not a correct thing to say.
    I'm sorry what? People should not have to quit their job to earn the same rate as pay as their peers or to avoid sexual harassment. Blizzard is fucking breaking the law and they are damn lucky California is only pursuing this as a civil matter and not criminal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    It's a civil suit (because apparently in California corporate regulation is done by civil suit, im sure lobbying had nothing to do with that) it's not a criminal case.
    Also something a lot of people are not aware of are the common boilerplate NDAs companies force higher level executives and staff to sign that prevent them from speaking out about things like sexual harassment and wage gaps.
    Last edited by xanzul; 2021-07-29 at 03:24 AM.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    It absolutely is specific to women and the State of California has laid their case out for all to see. If you can't be bothered to read up on what the actual situation is maybe you should sit down and shut the fuck up.

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    No one honestly believes any of the bullshit ATVI/Blizzard leadership is spewing lately. Pandora's box is open and everything is coming out whether they like it or not. I am glad existing Blizzard employees are standing up for themselves and speaking out about what has been going on and we need a lot more of that to keep happening if there is any hope of Blizzard redeeming themselves. Sadly I have zero faith in Blizzard at this point and the whole fucking company can do down in flames for all I care. All the existing talent at Blizzard who aren't rapists or creeps will easily find work elsewhere in the industry.

    And yes this is coming from someone who spent the better part of the past 10 years constantly being accused of being a Blizzard fanboy. I finally see Blizzard for what it is now and what it represents and I will not spend one more cent on any of their games until they actually change how they treat their employees (and obviously change how they develop games as well). It is sad because I was really looking forward to the D2 remaster.

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    Hopefully this case brings much needed attention to an industry wide problem. It isn't even just game development but tech in general where these issues are especially bad. Women have contributed a lot to game development and tech in the past 20 years and it is reprehensible that any of them are being treated the way they are still when many are at the same level or above their male counterparts in talent and innovation.

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    It is sad that people don't understand that the wage gap between men and women is still very real and entrenched in some industries.

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    This is about sexual harassment and other workplace issues. It has fuck all to do with being offended or woke. Fucking give it a rest already.

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    Almost everything in this case has been corroborated by numerous current and former Blizzard employees. It isn't conjecture. Blizzard isn't even denying any of it so you might want to think long and hard on why that is.

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    I'm sorry what? People should not have to quit their job to earn the same rate as pay as their peers or to avoid sexual harassment. Blizzard is fucking breaking the law and they are damn lucky California is only pursuing this as a civil matter and not criminal.

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    Also something a lot of people are not aware of are the common boilerplate NDAs companies force higher level executives and staff to sign that prevent them from speaking out about things like sexual harassment and wage gaps.
    I'm...I'm on your side with this. I was telling the person that simply quitting and finding a job isn't as easy as they claim especially because most of them aren't in IT. They initially said they can find a job in IT anywhere and I told them why that was an incorrect thing to say. I agree with you that people shouldn't have to quit and find a new job just so they can be treated like a person instead of a disposable piece of garbage.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Of course Blizzard cares about their image. Brand is image. Not caring about their image would be incredibly stupid.
    So you agree that they don't really care whether one of them is a sexual harassment creep as long as the public never finds out?
    That makes two of us, if so.

  16. #296
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomer View Post
    So you agree that they don't really care whether one of them is a sexual harassment creep as long as the public never finds out?
    That makes two of us, if so.
    The evidence is certainly there for everyone to see. I'm quite sure that Brack handwaving Afrasiabi with a verbal warning is a good place to start. I won't hold Blizzard especially responsible for not going public with the reason they fired him (until today apparently...see the Kotaku article). That's standard procedure to not go into reasons for terminations. But the rest of it? You just need to look at it. There hasn't been any part of the last several days that's convinced me otherwise. The testimonials of ex-Blizzard employees supports the California lawsuit in just about every way imaginable.

    The saying is that where there's smoke there's fire. In this case, there's fire.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomer View Post
    So you agree that they don't really care whether one of them is a sexual harassment creep as long as the public never finds out?
    That makes two of us, if so.
    It sounds a little cynical, but that's how most business decisions work. Until and unless something affects profits, it doesn't really matter in the mechanics of business; the only questions are will it affect profits, by how much, and when.

    In that sense, you can leverage a twofold complaint here:

    1. Blizzard executives were bad managers, because they didn't account for a loss of profit that would inevitably result from their inaction and tacit approval of a toxic workplace

    2. Blizzard executives were bad people, because even if it didn't directly reflect in profits there's more than business mechanics at stake and you shouldn't subject people to a toxic workplace on moral grounds, period

    Any which way you spin it, they fucked up.

    HOWEVER (and this is important):

    Blizzard is far from the only problematic workplace, both within the games industry and outside it. The problems highlighted in the lawsuit are problems in other companies as well, and if anything speak to a larger issue at play: one of systemically entrenched patterns of behavior that should not be tolerated. That's not to take away from the direct actions in the actual case at hand (it should absolutely be dealt with in the here and now, based on what happened); but there is more change, reaching far beyond Blizzard, that we need to work on as well.

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