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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by BreakerOfWills View Post
    People who want to argue against basic equality always act as if suitability for a job is an objective measurement like length of a stick as opposed to a collection of various things. One of the biggest examples of that is how people argue that what some folks would dismiss as "diversity hires" are rejected because they "dont fit in to company culture" but what Blizz, and Riot, and Ubisoft and so many others has laid bare is that their "company culture" is absolute rot. Which lays it very bare two things. One that even if they advertise equal opportunity hiring they're not actually doing it (so all the folks saying theyre mad at diversity hiring in gaming are basically lying) and that two they're hiring people who will either not speak out against a culture of sexual harassment, or be targets of that harassment, or be perpetrators.

    One thing people don't quite reckon with is that the "golden days" of gaming they hearken back to would be characterized by rockstars of talent who weren't part of the frat boy culture being systematically denied hiring, advancement, equal pay, and in some cases just straight up being pushed out of the medium.
    I’ve always found the ‘they didn’t fit the culture’ part hilarious. They should just use that when not hiring white males just to infuriate them to high heavens. They’d find a way to cry about it.

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by EyelessCrow View Post
    Why? Nobody gives valid reasoning to this
    He fosters and encourages the "us VS them" mentality that plagues the modern political climate. That's why. He's loud, abrasive, and divisive.

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by natham View Post
    As I said, damn 21 century snowflakes.
    Being sexually harassed and verbally denigrated to the point of suicide isn't a snowflake thing. Crying online about how your manager complimented you on your strong, inspiring go-getter attitude but dared to criticize you for being a little too passionate and uncooperative is.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    This is one of the major issues though. People thinking that all that is being done is "we'll hire more of x". Is that happening? Probably sometimes. But I can assure you that is it not an acceptable practice and with the dozens of companies I've worked with who have hundreds of thousands of employees, that is not the accepted practice.
    Thanks for handling this one.

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    It is possible.

    But, and I know this is a cliché, can you tell me why there's fewer garbagewomen than men? Oppression? Societal discrimination? Or might it just be that a lot of women don't really like the notion of that job? Gaming isn't for everyone, film making isn't for everyone, teaching isn't for everyone, sports aren't for everyone, and we have no problem conceptualizing or even acknowledging that except for the industries that seem glamorous. Which, to be honest, I think gamedev isn't all that glamorous in practice. Only on the surface, from a consumer standpoint.
    Again, this is why we use math and take into consideration the labor market. you keep giving me examples of "why is this field mostly X???" when in most cases, that isn't an issue because that's what's available in the labor market.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    Because it doesn't?

    If the reason a company has a majority of white male employees is that white males are proportionally more interested in the area/industry, then the problem isn't on the company's hiring practices or in their "outreach efforts". Potentially there isn't even a problem, but if there is it's more likely to be a wider problem drawing from social and economic factors, rather than any given company's practices.
    And if that's the case then that would be what the numbers tell us when we calculate expectations. That's what I said in the rest of the post that you cut off.

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    He fosters and encourages the "us VS them" mentality that plagues the modern political climate. That's why. He's loud, abrasive, and divisive.
    Wait are you talking about Trump?

    It’s because he’s a racebaiting, xenophobic, bigot. Even his own Lindsey Graham said so.

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    He fosters and encourages the "us VS them" mentality that plagues the modern political climate. That's why. He's loud, abrasive, and divisive.
    Oh my fucking god, is that seriously your reason? You just described the entire government body on both sides. But HE'S the problem...just admit it, you go by red and blue and nothing else. You squawk what you're told to squawk

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    With your expertise, can you reflect on what Nike is doing then?
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/11/nike...k-to-them.html
    I don't know how they arrived at their numbers. I would like to believe they based it on the available job market but I wasn't the one who calculated those numbers.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    This is one of the major issues though. People thinking that all that is being done is "we'll hire more of x". Is that happening? Probably sometimes. But I can assure you that is it not an acceptable practice and with the dozens of companies I've worked with who have hundreds of thousands of employees, that is not the accepted practice.
    Yeah, and offering women less money for the same job has been illegal for over.. what, two decades?

    Yet if I were to bring that up, I'd undoubtedly get people rolling their eyes and going "heh, yeah well that doesn't mean anything because they do it anyway, educate urself sweaty" Not saying you would say that, but I've had retorts of similar nature before.

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I'm don't want to talk about statistics with you because you'd probably end up calling me a racist or whatever whenever faced with facts.
    Trust me, I don't want to talk about statistics with you either because you clearly know very little if anything about it.

  11. #591
    This is complete BS and nothing but virtue signaling to pander to a select few. With exception to "personal changes" anyways. But we'll have to really see what that actually means. In-game changes is talking about removing a NPC because the dude ended up fondling women. That's why I'm saying all this BS is virtual signaling. How about you give some of that 100 million to work on the game that people pay for. They pay you for a service that you are NOT providing. And for the developers to turn this around on gamers, there's a special place in hell. Stop projecting. Stop fondling the men and women you work with, and start caring for the game you work on.

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    You seem to have a very stong opinions on people you know very little or nothing about.
    And again, a company that has verifiably treated women badly, paid women less and housed sexual predators, suddenly treated them fairly.

    You are on the corner of literal sexual predators, verifiable predators. Not going to tell you what to do, but that does not seem like a good thing.
    No, I just know people, people who have worked. In fact, we had a harassment complaint half a year ago. It was hilarious, a guy with a wife and kids hooked up with a female coworker, since he obviously had no intention of ditching the wife and kids, the moment it was over the whole thing somehow became sexual harresment. Which is funny cause the female worker actively showe every other female coworker the dick pics the guy sent her. After HR turned down her ridiculous claims which everyone knew were made up. She started a whole tirade of shit talking the company how it's against women and it's all about men. Which is really interesting since the manager of the entire workplace is a women. The shipping planer that's leading logistics is a women, one of our Team leaders is a woman.
    This person was an incompetent worker who went on a 2 month sick vacation and came back last week to resign. But in her deluded mind it's all about pushing down women. The whole company was sexist against her etc etc...
    And that's just 1 of my female coworkers.
    TLDR drop the believe all wahmen shit, they are people. And people are assholes.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    He fosters and encourages the "us VS them" mentality that plagues the modern political climate. That's why. He's loud, abrasive, and divisive.
    Yeah, democrats surely don't make anything an "us vs them"

    Btw if you don't vote for me you are voting FOR ORANGE EMPEROR BIGOT FASCIST TINY HANDS PUTIN TROLL CHILDREN IN CAGES

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    Trust me, I don't want to talk about statistics with you either because you clearly know very little if anything about it.
    If your posts in this thread are anything to go by, then I pity anyone who has to rely on your "math" lol

  15. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    I don't know how they arrived at their numbers. I would like to believe they based it on the available job market but I wasn't the one who calculated those numbers.
    That would be a remarkably convenient coincidence indeed.

  16. #596
    Warchief Lulbalance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natham View Post
    As I said, damn 21 century snowflakes.
    Imagine unironically calling people snowflakes in 2021. What a stupid thing to say.

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I mean, education can be indoctrination. Calling something education doesn't immediately make it good or flawless.
    I wouldn't characterize actual education as indoctrination. If it's indoctrinating someone, it's not truly education. That's just semantics though. I just know when someone tells me I'm using buzzwords when I'm using words that are common in that professional field, they're likely very uneducated.

  18. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    And if that's the case then that would be what the numbers tell us when we calculate expectations. That's what I said in the rest of the post that you cut off.
    Not sure if you're confusing it with some other post, I don't see anything about numbers or expectations in what I replied to:

    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    Is there some logical reason why that would be the case? It's possible the applicants weren't a very diverse group or all of the top tier choices weren't very diverse but that indicates a problem with outreach efforts. Why are only white guys applying? That business would likely be missing out on some top tier talent if for some reason it's only white guys applying.

    Unless for some reason you think white males are just better?

    With that said, what exactly are the numbers at Blizzard, and the calculated expectations, then?

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by EyelessCrow View Post
    Oh my fucking god, is that seriously your reason? You just described the entire government body on both sides. But HE'S the problem...just admit it, you go by red and blue and nothing else. You squawk what you're told to squawk
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Yeah, democrats surely don't make anything an "us vs them"

    "muh both sides are the same!"
    "everyone does it!"

    every time

  20. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    Imagine unironically calling people snowflakes in 2021. What a stupid thing to say.
    in the context of systematic sexual harassment and the death of an employee no less.

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