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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    When mostly white dudes apply for these positions then mostly white dudes holding these positions is evidence that there is no discrimination taking place. The demographic share of the applications needs to reflect the demographic share of the hired.
    Why are you assuming it was mostly white dudes applying? You might be right but you can't know so it's a weird assumption. You also have it backwards, the demographics of those hired should reflect the demographics of those who applied.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Straga21 View Post
    No, I just know people, people who have worked. In fact, we had a harassment complaint half a year ago. It was hilarious, a guy with a wife and kids hooked up with a female coworker, since he obviously had no intention of ditching the wife and kids, the moment it was over the whole thing somehow became sexual harresment. Which is funny cause the female worker actively showe every other female coworker the dick pics the guy sent her. After HR turned down her ridiculous claims which everyone knew were made up. She started a whole tirade of shit talking the company how it's against women and it's all about men. Which is really interesting since the manager of the entire workplace is a women. The shipping planer that's leading logistics is a women, one of our Team leaders is a woman.
    This person was an incompetent worker who went on a 2 month sick vacation and came back last week to resign. But in her deluded mind it's all about pushing down women. The whole company was sexist against her etc etc...
    And that's just 1 of my female coworkers.
    TLDR drop the believe all wahmen shit, they are people. And people are assholes.
    So you’re basing every case of sexual harassment on one case you’ve experienced first hand. Well, I’ve only ever been racially abused by two black men in my entire life BUT I’ve had countless number of white peoples stereotype me in a negative fashion based on my race. Should I now assume that all black men are racist and all white people stereotype me negatively? Hint. NO.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    I wouldn't characterize actual education as indoctrination. If it's indoctrinating someone, it's not truly education. That's just semantics though. I just know when someone tells me I'm using buzzwords when I'm using words that are common in that professional field, they're likely very uneducated.
    No, my point was more, one person can call indoctrination education. Just calling something 'education' doesn't make it virtuous in and of itself, just as calling something science doesn't make it 100% impervious to criticism or perfectly correct.

    That's all. Anyone trying to indoctrinate you probably wouldn't come out and say "we're indoctrinating you," but rather "we're educating you."

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    The problem, if those studies are even true, is people that extend those "common" characteristics to all women and all men. This mentality is actually what makes women advancing in STEM careers so difficult. They tend to get pushed into management and aren't able to utilize their technical skills as often because of the perception that women are more into the "people" side of things.
    Or because they choose that path themselves. I've yet to see a teacher or anybody else going to a girl and telling them "NO! No, no STEM for you! You go work as a secretary, girl!".
    Yours is just a fable amongst many, but with no real adherence to reality. Women are more than encouraged and helped into getting into Stem nowadays, but they're not as much. By their own choice.

    At some point you'll have to admit that you can't solve all difficult questions with "oppression!" as an answer.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Yeah, democrats surely don't make anything an "us vs them"

    Btw if you don't vote for me you are voting FOR ORANGE EMPEROR BIGOT FASCIST TINY HANDS PUTIN TROLL CHILDREN IN CAGES
    I mean he is a fucking fascist and bigot. So…the shoe clearly fits. Anyway, it’s getting off topic.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    I wouldn't characterize actual education as indoctrination. If it's indoctrinating someone, it's not truly education. That's just semantics though. I just know when someone tells me I'm using buzzwords when I'm using words that are common in that professional field, they're likely very uneducated.
    No field of work marred by forced "education" in "systemic issues" and "diversity" can be called professional.

    Besides, education can be, in some places still is and largely was indoctrination. The catholic church was the educational go-to institution for "knowledge" and literacy in the medieval ages. That doesn't mean that educating people about burning others at stake and other abhorable instruments of the inquisition represent education. In other words, what you call education history may very well look back upon as indoctrination.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-07-28 at 04:00 PM.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    "muh both sides are the same!"
    "everyone does it!"

    every time
    Maybe there's truth to it. I don't know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I mean he is a fucking fascist and bigot. So…the shoe clearly fits.
    Yeah, I'm glad we finally got him out, so now the kids in cages can no longer be in cages but in the far more welcoming "migrant overflow centers" that smell like roses.

  8. #608
    Weeb Queen Video Games's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    There's mountains of evidence that diversity, and more importantly inclusion, factually creates a better work environment. Not just in terms of the employees feeling more included and safe but literally leads to an increase in productive work.
    Maybe, but not better games as the last 15 years has showed us. I prefer an all white male dev team if it means games are better

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    So what I'm getting from this thread is,

    hiring white person = bad
    hiring non-white person = good
    picking white person over non-white person = bad no matter what
    between two equally-skilled candidates, hiring based on skin color is good if you pick the non-white, but bad if you pick the white
    An accurate summary, yes.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Yeah, and offering women less money for the same job has been illegal for over.. what, two decades?

    Yet if I were to bring that up, I'd undoubtedly get people rolling their eyes and going "heh, yeah well that doesn't mean anything because they do it anyway, educate urself sweaty" Not saying you would say that, but I've had retorts of similar nature before.
    I'm not talking about the legality of it. Obviously such practices are illegal but regardless, it's still not a common practice to have such shallow diversity efforts. it's very unfortunate when people take the easy way out and because it does negatively impact those who are trying to do this the correct way. It emboldens those that both have a legitimate worry of DEI efforts being done incorrectly and having the reverse effect on the majority group and those that just pretend that they care but in reality very much feel that even real equality is just oppressing the white man. I would rather a company do absolutely nothing than attempt to hire minorities for the sake of hiring minorities and pretending like they're doing something good.

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straga21 View Post
    No, I just know people, people who have worked. In fact, we had a harassment complaint half a year ago. It was hilarious, a guy with a wife and kids hooked up with a female coworker, since he obviously had no intention of ditching the wife and kids, the moment it was over the whole thing somehow became sexual harresment. Which is funny cause the female worker actively showe every other female coworker the dick pics the guy sent her. After HR turned down her ridiculous claims which everyone knew were made up. She started a whole tirade of shit talking the company how it's against women and it's all about men. Which is really interesting since the manager of the entire workplace is a women. The shipping planer that's leading logistics is a women, one of our Team leaders is a woman.
    This person was an incompetent worker who went on a 2 month sick vacation and came back last week to resign. But in her deluded mind it's all about pushing down women. The whole company was sexist against her etc etc...
    And that's just 1 of my female coworkers.
    TLDR drop the believe all wahmen shit, they are people. And people are assholes.
    Cool story, but your story is he said, she said.

    Blizzard story is more like, he shut up, she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said * Inhale * she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said,she said.

    It seems to me that either: you have a superficial grasp of the Blizzard's Story, or you want to bash the me too movement.

    Regardless of your intention, I don't think you defending the side that has verifiable sex predators is the right move.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I believe Trump is a cancer on society. There is no two ways about it. I believe FOX needs to get their head out of their ass and stop fishing for ratings. When FOX does actual journalism, they're really fucking good at it. When they try to pander to the hard right for ratings, they suck balls.

    I believe the political spectrum is inherently flawed. It segregates people based on a checkmark system, and is highly frustrating. Because there are enough conservative principles I'm quite comfortable with, as are many others. But holy shit if some of them aren't whacko and destructive.

    You're also not allowed to say 'I've never sensed or heard that from the left'. I just did it.
    Well, I'm glad to hear it, though the movement at large isn't exactly giving off that message. I would say the same about CNN and MSNBC and the hard left as you say for FOX. I'm curious to know where you agree with conservatives though. I tend to lean more economically left myself, though I'm finding that's becoming increasingly common among conservatives as they realize that corporations being really, really powerful might not be a great idea now that they're mostly on the other side. Of course, these days corporations don't look so bad anymore to liberals for the same reason. Kind of shows people's short-sightedness.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    If your posts in this thread are anything to go by, then I pity anyone who has to rely on your "math" lol
    They all seem to be doing pretty well. Winning awards and increasing productivity while becoming a more inclusive and diverse workplace. I'm sure you would pity such things.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Imagine if even 2 or 3 people within leadership at Blizzard had the same deranged notions about women in the workplace as you do.

    Not hard to then understand why it's such a fucked up place to work.

    Harassment takes place. Victim complains. Straga21 is the manager responsible for handling the complaint. 'This is just metoo shit'.
    Yeah well it happened in the company i work at, check my earlier comment around page 30.
    And it's not a "deranged notion about women" I work in a 3 shift workplace but i shift over every week.
    Meaning i work with 3 different teams. All of them are entitled assholes, all blaming the other team for any failures, all thinking they are the best at the job and that it's the other team that sucks. This happens on an individual level as well, almost all of them think they are the most qualified for the job and should get promoted.
    The key difference between the males and females? The males can't sue the company saying that it must be sexism that they weren't promoted. They just have to accept that they weren't and move on.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    I'm not talking about the legality of it. Obviously such practices are illegal but regardless, it's still not a common practice to have such shallow diversity efforts. it's very unfortunate when people take the easy way out and because it does negatively impact those who are trying to do this the correct way. It emboldens those that both have a legitimate worry of DEI efforts being done incorrectly and having the reverse effect on the majority group and those that just pretend that they care but in reality very much feel that even real equality is just oppressing the white man. I would rather a company do absolutely nothing than attempt to hire minorities for the sake of hiring minorities and pretending like they're doing something good.
    Maybe it's hard to have faith in claims of more equitable hiring practices when so often it's used as a PR stunt. I hope you're right, though. I don't think positive discrimination (for a lack of a better term, I know people are going to take issue with it, but whatever) is a good way to go if you want to approach the neutral ground that is "hire anyone for their qualifications and don't worry about what they look like."

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    That would be a remarkably convenient coincidence indeed.
    How exactly would that be a coincidence? This statement just doesn't make sense.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    Why are you assuming it was mostly white dudes applying? You might be right but you can't know so it's a weird assumption. You also have it backwards, the demographics of those hired should reflect the demographics of those who applied.
    I'm basing this off the CS being a white male dominated study and video games being a white male dominated hobby, provided we're not including mobile. Together this makes it more likely that white guys apply for these positions than anyone else.

    The weakness in all of this are the recruiters. If applicants need to reflect the people who get hired then companies still have means to skew the people who get to apply. Tricky.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    How exactly would that be a coincidence? This statement just doesn't make sense.
    Because fewer women apply for senior positions than men do. This means that for Nike to suddenly receive more female applicants it would require to be a fluke. You ought to know this considering you claim this is your field.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    Not sure if you're confusing it with some other post, I don't see anything about numbers or expectations in what I replied to:




    With that said, what exactly are the numbers at Blizzard, and the calculated expectations, then?
    Sorry my post was too high level for you. My mention of the applicants possibly not being very diverse would be taken into consideration when calculating expected values.

    How would I know about the numbers at blizzard? I don't have access to their data.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    They all seem to be doing pretty well. Winning awards and increasing productivity while becoming a more inclusive and diverse workplace. I'm sure you would pity such things.
    I work with a wide variety of people, with various ethnic and religious backgrounds. Most of them are women too. The only ones that are male are my driver and two others. I simply never look at them as a medium for "math" and mathematical division, but simply as humans.

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by Xez View Post
    Well, I'm glad to hear it, though the movement at large isn't exactly giving off that message. I would say the same about CNN and MSNBC and the hard left as you say for FOX. I'm curious to know where you agree with conservatives though. I tend to lean more economically left myself, though I'm finding that's becoming increasingly common among conservatives as they realize that corporations being really, really powerful might not be a great idea now that they're mostly on the other side. Of course, these days corporations don't look so bad anymore to liberals for the same reason. Kind of shows people's short-sightedness.
    I lean left in most ways, but I can understand the need for fiscal conservatism on some things. Not stuff like healthcare obviously. Or housing. I believe the essentials are non negotiable, but that the political guardrails on financial management need to be maintained. Old school conservatism. I’m definitely not socially conservative, that’s for sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Straga21 View Post
    Yeah well it happened in the company i work at, check my earlier comment around page 30.
    And it's not a "deranged notion about women" I work in a 3 shift workplace but i shift over every week.
    Meaning i work with 3 different teams. All of them are entitled assholes, all blaming the other team for any failures, all thinking they are the best at the job and that it's the other team that sucks. This happens on an individual level as well, almost all of them think they are the most qualified for the job and should get promoted.
    The key difference between the males and females? The males can't sue the company saying that it must be sexism that they weren't promoted. They just have to accept that they weren't and move on.
    Oh you mean that dumb isolated incident. Woo. Surely that makes all women evil and devious.

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