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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Trbn View Post
    game dev is not an entertainment industry, especially in 00's
    It's not and at the same time, it is. Games are entertainment and you need the same mindset as any other entertainment type. Otherwise, you will have games which will be boring. But at the same time, for the gaming industry, you need countless people to make those games. You need coders, designers, IT support, HR, Story tellers, etc... Pretty much what you need for a regular IT company. The problem here most likely is that management failed miserably, and management for Blizzard looks like consisted only of those who were from Blizzard's first days, guys who were looked at and most likely felt like Rock Stars, They needed people from the corporate world to co overlook Blizzard and cool these guys off. You need from both worlds to make great games. You can't have hot-headed guys run the company in the same manner as they were running it from the first days when they only had like 15 guys in the group. Gaming is/used to be like Rock Band, just with additional 1000s employees.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    This is just the ‘juicy story’ element of it all.
    That's the thing tho. It's just an online angry mob circlejerking over every little thing they can, often including a lot of assumptions made with little to no thought, only to jugde people they know nothing about to get high on outrage and feel morally superior.

    Can I definitely say that what their thoughts and knowledge regarding Cosby and what their joke was really about? Of course not. But similarly enough I can't say the other way either. It just doesn't seem the most likely explanation that they were all basically a proud rapist-worshipping cult that wasn't afraid to out themselves to friends and family on Facebook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Again, you do realise that WORD gets around fast as fuck. But yeah explaining this is clearly hard.
    Ok, but do you actually know of any contacts people at Blizzard had in Hollywood at the time? And were those contacts aware of it, or are you assuming absolutely everyone even remotely involved in Hollywood knew?

    Is it possible they knew? Sure. But it's silly to assume they definitely knew. Do be aware that you are discrediting one of the alleged victims by insisting everyone definitely knew.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    That's the thing tho. It's just an online angry mob circlejerking over every little thing they can, often including a lot of assumptions made with little to no thought, only to jugde people they know nothing about to get high on outrage and feel morally superior.

    Can I definitely say that what their thoughts and knowledge regarding Cosby and what their joke was really about? Of course not. But similarly enough I can't say the other way either. It just doesn't seem the most likely explanation that they were all basically a proud rapist-worshipping cult that wasn't afraid to out themselves to friends and family on Facebook.



    Ok, but do you actually know of any contacts people at Blizzard had in Hollywood at the time? And were those contacts aware of it, or are you assuming absolutely everyone even remotely involved in Hollywood knew?

    Is it possible they knew? Sure. But it's silly to assume they definitely knew. Do be aware that you are discrediting one of the alleged victims by insisting they definitely knew.
    Firstly, if you read my post I said it’s irrelevant as to what the intent of the name of the suite was. I was humouring the discussion. Because Afrasiabi is not the only culprit. He’s the only named culprit. So even if he called this room, ‘the Blizzard Den of Sodomy’, it wouldn’t be the be all end all.

    Secondly, I couldn’t give a fuck about what mob is doing what. They’re also irrelevant. What’s vital is two things - structural change at Blizzard and supporting the victims. That’s it. The rest is just faff.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    It just doesn't seem the most likely explanation that they were all basically a proud rapist-worshipping cult that wasn't afraid to out themselves to friends and family on Facebook.
    Based on what's come out, it clearly does seem that way. And it's not too surprising either. There's a lot of people like that in the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    I want Activision-Blizzard to burn, but for crimes against gaming, not because they got me too'd.

  5. #305
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    It's absolutely within your rights to ask how much money other people in the company are making. Because more often then not, it brings to light wage disparity.
    That's the transparency in pay that is needed.

    It doesn't matter if it's male or female, only difference in pay for the same position is experience and/or education (longevity or more expertise). KNOWING the pay is equal for the same qualifications in the same position, people will know they got fair wages.

    Rooting out sexism in pay takes just that transparency.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    Based on what's come out, it clearly does seem that way. And it's not too surprising either. There's a lot of people like that in the world.
    Thing is it doesn’t even matter. The people who want to rail against the entire case may make this their ‘die on hill’ moment. The people who want to support the case may also do the same. But neither is correct in their intent. It’s like judging an entire birthday cake on how sweet the single cherry on the top is. It’s utterly pointless. There’s more going on.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    That's the transparency in pay that is needed.

    It doesn't matter if it's male or female, only difference in pay for the same position is experience and/or education (longevity or more expertise). KNOWING the pay is equal for the same qualifications in the same position, people will know they got fair wages.

    Rooting out sexism in pay takes just that transparency.
    I am not from the US, so I am wondering. Is there posted Salary for open positions in companies and other company posters? Or it's just discussed between person and company during an interview?

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Disxx View Post
    I am not from the US, so I am wondering. Is there posted Salary for open positions in companies and other company posters? Or it's just discussed between person and company during an interview?
    I’m in the U.K. now and most roles don’t have that transparency.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    So even if he called this room, ‘the Blizzard Den of Sodomy’, it wouldn’t be the be all end all.
    There's even worse that happened:

    "One ex-Blizzard source familiar with the people presented in the pictures identified an HR representative as one of the Blizzard employees present in the hotel room."

    THAT may have been the final straw to bring the lawsuit, as it would showed complicity. HR representative should NEVER have been in that room. They don't mix and mingle like that, as they're SUPPOSE to be representatives of their company!

    Yeah, it's b-a-d.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    There's even worse that happened:

    "One ex-Blizzard source familiar with the people presented in the pictures identified an HR representative as one of the Blizzard employees present in the hotel room."

    THAT may have been the final straw to bring the lawsuit, as it would showed complicity. HR representative should NEVER have been in that room. They don't mix and mingle like that, as they're SUPPOSE to be representatives of their company!

    Yeah, it's b-a-d.
    I don’t care much about these pics that came out. It’s garden variety frat boy drinking shit. It’s the overall culture that stems FROM it, which is the actual issue. These pics are just ‘well that’s dumb’.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I’m in the U.K. now and most roles don’t have that transparency.
    Well, here we don't see how much our colleagues are earning, but companies have by law an obligation to post salary what will be paid to that open position when that is being posted outside. So actual employees of that company can see those and cab nake decision if he/she wants to stay, demand rise or quit the company for the same role in a different company for a better salary.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Secondly, I couldn’t give a fuck about what mob is doing what. They’re also irrelevant. What’s vital is two things - structural change at Blizzard and supporting the victims. That’s it. The rest is just faff.
    Fair enough I suppose. Definitely wish more people were more focused on that rather than witch-hunting and pretending to be investigators, it's like a soap opera.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    Based on what's come out, it clearly does seem that way. And it's not too surprising either. There's a lot of people like that in the world.
    I mean, you're free to believe whatever you want I suppose. Sounds more likely to me to be an inside joke that just looks bad in retrospect, especially given the current climate.

    Especially considering the lawsuit is mostly centered on discrimination, with only a few points on sexual harassment despite that being what people are focusing on.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Disxx View Post
    Well, here we don't see how much our colleagues are earning, but companies have by law an obligation to post salary what will be paid to that open position when that is being posted outside. So actual employees of that company can see those and cab nake decision if he/she wants to stay, demand rise or quit the company for the same role in a different company for a better salary.
    So a company I've worked for before actually pays external recruits MORE than internal recruits, because they have less perceived bargaining power.

    Also it's that 'new toy' vibe. 'Oh, they're from here, they must be good. Eww, internal recruit'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    Fair enough I suppose. Definitely wish more people were more focused on that rather than witch-hunting and pretending to be investigators, it's like a soap opera.
    Dudeman, I'll be honest. It happens with everything. Nothing new here. There will always be bandwagon jumpers just looking for the likes/shares/attention. Because outrage is a great unifier. What's KEY is to focus on what needs to be done, and that's it.

    And as to why I care, I really don't want to be a customer of a company that has sexual harassment issues within it. There's a lot I'm having to slide because of the fucked up world we live in, but there's certain no-go areas. This is one of them.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Thing is it doesn’t even matter. The people who want to rail against the entire case may make this their ‘die on hill’ moment. The people who want to support the case may also do the same. But neither is correct in their intent. It’s like judging an entire birthday cake on how sweet the single cherry on the top is. It’s utterly pointless. There’s more going on.
    I don't know if anyone wants to juge anything based on this. It's just a new piece of a very shitty puzzle, which makes the whole picture make more and more sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    I want Activision-Blizzard to burn, but for crimes against gaming, not because they got me too'd.

  15. #315
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disxx View Post
    I am not from the US, so I am wondering. Is there posted Salary for open positions in companies and other company posters? Or it's just discussed between person and company during an interview?
    There's a general pay ranges for positions, not exact pay.

    The transparency people are talking about is same position; same/similar experience; same/similar education -- what IS the pay?

    Because women find out that usually they are underpaid and have to PUSH the matter of getting equal OR better pay. It's that pushing to GET equal or better pay that is what's wrong in the workplace. Everyone that has similar experience/education and work hours should be paid equally. There's nothing work related that's different to pay differently.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    I don't know if anyone wants to juge anything based on this. It's just a new piece of a very shitty puzzle, which makes the whole picture make more and more sense
    There's already enough trolls/bad faith posters who are like 'oh, so you're implying sexual abuse because it was named the Cosby Suite. KEK Cosby wasn't even known to be a creep till 2014! Which means ALL the sexual harassment allegations are false based on this one bit of information!'.

    Mental gymnastics FTW. Because they're just so uncomfortable with the idea that sexual harassment can exist. And their gender can be potentially responsible for it, never mind the fact that the company they've hero worshipped is at the centre of it all. It's like 'Santa's not real? WTF?!'

    And then you have that added layer of people wanting to generalise anything that drives social activism as 'woke'. Which is just another outrage reaction, since diversity and everything that comes with it affects their sense of status quo. In short, people are dumb as fuck.
    Last edited by Valkyrst; 2021-07-29 at 08:20 AM.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I don’t care much about these pics that came out. It’s garden variety frat boy drinking shit. It’s the overall culture that stems FROM it, which is the actual issue. These pics are just ‘well that’s dumb’.
    To YOU.

    For women we see THE problem.

    And no excuses explain it away (we heard them all before).
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Because women find out that usually they are underpaid
    That's illegal you know. No company in their right mind would do that shit, they would be in constant legal trouble.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Given at one point Metzen was doing enough coke in the office to make Don Henly and Stevie Nicks blush they might be a bit closer than you think.

    Besides your argument makes no sesnse. Do Hollywood lawyers and Hollywood accountants not work in the entertainment industry because they work in an office?
    No, I just think the argument they had to know is weak. Could they have known? Yes, absolutely. Do I think it's reasonable to expect them to know because they're in a business adjacent to show business? No. I have to account for the fact that someone who would do things like that in the first place is a dumbass, and I don't think a dumbass would pay that much attention.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    So a company I've worked for before actually pays external recruits MORE than internal recruits, because they have less perceived bargaining power.

    Also it's that 'new toy' vibe. 'Oh, they're from here, they must be good. Eww, internal recruit'.
    With those law changes for IT, it's never been easier here to look and get a new job. At first, it was like that, but when people started leaving and joining new companies. Management made the switch for the better. We have some recruitment portals where people can post their CVs and recruiters will be looking for them. Usually, for an IT person, it's a call within 2 days of posting it and from multiple companies. These problems must be addressed and often employee is scared to look for a new place because he/she doesn't know life outside. And silence about salaries really doesn't help with this. It's maybe easy for an outspoken person, who can just walk to the manager and demand it. But many if not the majority are silent types, who will be scared to ask. And if a current company sees that your CV is posted, they can't really fire you. Here, at last, we have a shortage of IT people. But as much I know that's everywhere.

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