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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    And that's the thing. The 'joke' continued after 2014 as well, which means they had an inkling about how it would be perceived.
    Well, for what it's worth, it seems the sexual assault allegations only started becoming "viral" in September 2014 (vs August 2014)

    Even if they kept the joke going after that, at that point it was already an inside joke to them, which they were discussing privately, so it's entirely possible that it wasn't in any way a rape/abuse joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    the Cosby thing isn't the core issue at hand.
    Well yes, that's the point. Let's not lose our minds over how scandalous every little out-of-context comment any Blizz develop has made over the last 10 years might sound now, and focus on discussing facts and supporting the employees how we can.
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2021-07-29 at 11:19 AM.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by cirdanx View Post
    Alleged sexual harassment.

    Alleged is the key word here. So far the only thing that seems to be true is the party that Afrasiabi attended. How much of that was really true in the end will be seen. The biggest problem here seems to be that every single accusation is lacking context. Making a joke is not harassment, trying to kiss someone at a party who doesn´t want that is...yet we know nothing of the supposed “victims”. How many? Who? Where they going along with it of did they say no?

    The Bloomberg article was written like a hit piece and does not reflect the actual wording in the lawsuit very well. And Kotaku is a joke no one reads anyway. People should relax and actually wait what comes out in court before jumping to conclusions.
    Again, Blizzard AND The State of California have carried out their own investigations. Blizzard also carried out an INDEPENDENT investigation.

    All three investigations came to the conclusion that Afrasiabi was culpable of sexual harassment. So it's not alleged.

    If you're upset that harassment happens at Blizzard or just that harassment happens, that's fine. Just don't be in denial to make yourself feel better.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    For me personally I'm not really sure as to whether people knew pre 2014 or didn't know pre 2014. Post 2014 it should've been seen as clearly not awesome, but then sometimes people say edgy shit to be funny. So it's why I don't really put much stock in the Cosby suite thing. It could've just been edgy behaviour.

    However, all that said...



    1. By wording it as 'she claims to be a victim', there's a perceived implication that you think it didn't happen.
    2. It's further complicated by you saying 'naturally because she's a woman'. So if a guy said this, it would be suspicious?

    What she's saying is correct in her other tweets. She didn't KNOW that what was supposed to be a drinking party would end in Afrasiabi being a fucking creep. If the room could've been called 'The Unicorn Hideout' and what Afrasiabi did happened, then what? She would've had no forewarning that 'Unicorn is code sexually inappropriate behaviour by the hands of Alex Afrasiabi'. People need to realise that if sexually inappropriate behaviour, across a broad range of 1-10 in bad to worst happen, it happened. You don't need a room to be named something to strengthen or weaken the possibility of it happening. The fact that people are dying on this hill is so fucking dumb and misses the entire point. 'BUT HER EMAILS!'
    No, the point is she was involved in that situation and undoubtedly knew about shit. Now this comes out and people look at her with a raised brow, expecting her to explain what she meant and she goes "Actually, I was a victim too, I just didn't want to tell anyone," therefore deflecting any potential complicity and involvement, and people eat it up and call her brave for sharing her story where she was pressured into it.

    What she purports to have happened to her may well have happened, but it doesn't take away her part in knowing about what was going on. If it was a small time male developer in the same situation, he'd have been ripped apart if he so much as tried to deflect.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by cirdanx View Post
    Alleged sexual harrassment.
    Alex was fired because of it, Blizzard itself considered him guilty.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    Well, for what it's worth, it seems the sexual assault allegations only started becoming "viral" in September 2014: August 2014 vs September 2014.

    Even if they kept the joke going after that, at that point it was already an inside joke to them, which they were discussing privately, so it's entirely possible that it wasn't in any way a rape/abuse joke.



    Well yes, that's the point. Let's not lose our minds over how scandalous every little out-of-context comment any Blizz develop has made over the last 10 years might sound now, and focus on discussing facts and supporting the employees how we can.
    Honestly, I don't care about the whole Cosby suite thing. And I think most people focussed on the bigger picture don't.

    There's mainly two parties focussing on it.

    Party A is just going to get mad at every detail regarding the cases of harassment, which I can somewhat get.

    Party B is using the timeline of the naming of this Cosby suite as grounds to try and dismiss the entire notion of sexual harassment. Which is dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    No, the point is she was involved in that situation and undoubtedly knew about shit. Now this comes out and people look at her with a raised brow, expecting her to explain what she meant and she goes "Actually, I was a victim too, I just didn't want to tell anyone," therefore deflecting any potential complicity and involvement, and people eat it up and call her brave for sharing her story where she was pressured into it.

    What she purports to have happened to her may well have happened, but it doesn't take away her part in knowing about what was going on. If it was a small time male developer in the same situation, he'd have been ripped apart if he so much as tried to deflect.
    It's a delicate one. I know how hard speaking up in a case of sexual harassment is. I've had someone at a previous company under my reporting chain experience it. I had to raise a HR case to get her to talk about it, because she didn't want to go through the trauma of the grievance process.

    And as her manager, I can tell you it was fucking EXHAUSTING then having to detail every little thing and watch her relive it.

    So it's really no point trying to ascertain the intent behind why she didn't speak up. Could've been apathy, could've been fear. Many things.

  6. #446
    Guys, it could be the Madre Teresa room for all I care, the important is what was happening inside and outside that room.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Guys, it could be the Madre Teresa room for all I care, the important is what was happening inside and outside that room.
    Bingo. We have the winning answer. Inb4 the denial crew goes 'BUT HER TWEETS!' and then rename her Hilary Clinton.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Alex was fired because of it, Blizzard itself considered him guilty.
    Yes, that doesn't mean they all had a part in sexual harassment, or cover-up. Some may have simply taken part in a cringey inside joke they didn't know had a deeper meaning to those few perverts.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    It's a delicate one. I know how hard speaking up in a case of sexual harassment is. I've had someone at a previous company under my reporting chain experience it. I had to raise a HR case to get her to talk about it, because she didn't want to go through the trauma of the grievance process.

    And as her manager, I can tell you it was fucking EXHAUSTING then having to detail every little thing and watch her relive it.

    So it's really no point trying to ascertain the intent behind why she didn't speak up. Could've been apathy, could've been fear. Many things.
    Yeah, I get that. But it just feels it's brought up now to not be implicated, especially what with the constant unsolicited bringing up of the name in twitter threads as a hahafunny injoke.

  10. #450
    Those responses to GC adding context that Kotaku chose to not include (contextually accurate portrayals tend to get less clicks than buzzwords and bandwagons) read like the typically inept trolling of the average MMOC user. Its kind of gross.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Yes, that doesn't mean they all had a part in sexual harassment, or cover-up. Some may have simply taken part in a cringey inside joke they didn't know had a deeper meaning to those few perverts.
    No one is fucking saying they all contributed to the sexual harassment, but it's also extremely naive to assume they didn't know.

    Whether they covered up or not is a different matter. And this is all regardless of this Cosby Suite. Sort yourself out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Yeah, I get that. But it just feels it's brought up now to not be implicated, especially what with the constant unsolicited bringing up of the name in twitter threads as a hahafunny injoke.
    It's likely brought up now because people would've dug up her old tweets and she's now explaining what happened back then.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Party B is using the timeline of the naming of this Cosby suite as grounds to try and dismiss the entire notion of sexual harassment. Which is dumb.
    Can you quote anyone doing this?

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    It's no big deal. These happen all the time in the industry. It's basically an investigation to understand why the investigation was just lobbed out into the world all of a sudden, without the investors having any forewarning of it. The opposite of this is when material non public information gets leaked during an acquisition, thus allowing someone to buy stock of a company before an expected bump in valuation. Separate to this, Fran Townsend needs to be sacked. She's probably reduced a lot of investor confidence with her dumb fucking statement a few days ago. Total bloodbath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    Can you quote anyone doing this?
    Read the last few pages of the thread. There's enough trolls implying it left, right and centre.

    Cosby Suite? Bah, it's just an in-joke. Nothing happened. It's just a joke. Snowflakes!

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Again, Blizzard AND The State of California have carried out their own investigations. Blizzard also carried out an INDEPENDENT investigation.

    All three investigations came to the conclusion that Afrasiabi was culpable of sexual harassment. So it's not alleged.

    If you're upset that harassment happens at Blizzard or just that harassment happens, that's fine. Just don't be in denial to make yourself feel better.
    Blizzard would fire him anyway, realistically speaking because his reputation now is ruined and that reflects back at the company.

    Yes, you are right with the investigation. But that´s what the lawsuit is for. If the investigation is actually correct it will reflect in the court. As long as there is no court judgment on that i´m not jumping to conclusion. Though, I do believe the Afrasiabi case to be true. My point is that we lack context.

    But I do wonder why people are losing their mind over this. So far it seems ONLY Afrasiabi was actually committing sexual harassment at a party. Meaning his drunk ass fucked up and he will bear the consequences. Did I miss something or are there more “proven/supposedly” acts of sexual harassment in that company?

    And no, i´m not upset that anything like that happens at Blizzard, why would I be? Stuff like this can happen at any company/place. I can´t count the times when drunk guys/women got touchy or more when I was partying, I just didn´t scream harassment and tried to take down a company.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Yes, that doesn't mean they all had a part in sexual harassment, or cover-up. Some may have simply taken part in a cringey inside joke they didn't know had a deeper meaning to those few perverts.
    They "joke" about Alex's sexual predatory attitude. Shit happened in there, which led to Blizzard firing him and being mentioned on the state lawsuit.

    It's hard to believe that the rest of the Cosby Crew knew.

  16. #456
    "I am seriously questioning your leadership ability if you think "it was a joke" is the right thing to say here. Jokes like that are never harmless. They normalize the behavior that led to more abuse towards women."

    I don't know who this guy is, but kindly fuck off from our planet.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    They "joke" about Alex's sexual predatory attitude.
    They joke about "bringing in women" and fucking. Nothing in that implies them joking about predatory behavior (or knowing about it). What prudes are you? Many guys talk about shit like that all the time, without sexual harassment involved.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by cirdanx View Post
    Blizzard would fire him anyway, realistically speaking because his reputation now is ruined and that reflects back at the company.

    Yes, you are right with the investigation. But that´s what the lawsuit is for. If the investigation is actually correct it will reflect in the court. As long as there is no court judgment on that i´m not jumping to conclusion. Though, I do believe the Afrasiabi case to be true. My point is that we lack context.

    But I do wonder why people are losing their mind over this. So far it seems ONLY Afrasiabi was actually committing sexual harassment at a party. Meaning his drunk ass fucked up and he will bear the consequences. Did I miss something or are there more “proven/supposedly” acts of sexual harassment in that company?

    And no, i´m not upset that anything like that happens at Blizzard, why would I be? Stuff like this can happen at any company/place. I can´t count the times when drunk guys/women got touchy or more when I was partying, I just didn´t scream harassment and tried to take down a company.
    That's really not true. Companies don't dismiss people based on reputational risk based on unfounded allegations. Because that's a bigger risk.

    The lawsuit is not just that. It's a wider civil lawsuit that deals with a number of perceived discriminatory practices, some of which are hard to prove.

    The reason people are 'losing their minds' is because he's the only NAMED individual. There are more in the company engaging in similar activity.

    It's doubly compounded because there's corroborated information about senior leadership failing to take decisive action in dealing with the matters.

    Again, it is a wide spectrum from how touchy to straight up inappropriate. So it's silly to use anecdotal evidence from your own life to draw parallels.

    Because just for context, one employee was so severely traumatised by pictures of her body parts being shared without her permission, that she committed suicide. If something like this was to happen at your company, would you just ignore it and trod along like nothing happened?

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Guys, it could be the Madre Teresa room for all I care, the important is what was happening inside and outside that room.
    Probably alcohol, party...and sex...at least i´m sure some Blizzard fan girls wouldn´t say no to some devs. It´s kinda the nature of big events, just go to a rock concert.

    Of course, now people think they probably drugged up girls there and did a Cosby because they joked about the room name. /ugh

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Read the last few pages of the thread. There's enough trolls implying it left, right and centre.
    Just went over the latest 3 pages and didn't see a single example of this. So I ask again: Can you quote anyone doing it, let alone enough to justify claiming they're a significant "party" of the discussion?

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