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  1. #481
    Warchief Freedom's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
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    So how many times are they going to say "we will be the change"? Such a manic kind of statement. I can get behind making sure that your work environment isn't infested with dude bros and misogynist assholes but language like that makes me cringe and wonder how self aware the movement is, and what kind of bizarre inflated sense of importance they have for themselves. It's not enough to just be right these days, you have to appeal to extreme emotions using bombastic statements... how about just "We are determined in our cause and we will not stop opposing you until things have permanently, markedly changed for the better"?

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by PixelFox View Post
    J needs to resign and they need to promote or hire a woman into the position who can clean up their act, and it would probably be great for WoW and their other games as well.

    There's just no other solution at this point.

    Blizzard was started buy a bunch of guys who created a guy culture. Many of them grew up and now have good relationships with women. The problem is that these people failed to ensure that the company culture also grew up. They have all had MANY years to get this right, and they have failed to do it, and now they need to pay the price. That's what "taking responsibility" means. There have to be consequences and ramifications for failure. Not just "OMG we are so so sorry to hear about all this and gosh we'll try to do better now!" No, heads need to roll starting at the absolute top, and the new leader needs to be able to clean house of any other bad apples and produce an environment that both employees and customers can be proud of.

    A few years from now this might look like the best thing to happen to Blizzard in a long time.
    Gender based hiring doesn't fix problems. Yes house needs to be cleaned but no gender and ethnicity should play zero role in who replacements are. Hell the current person trying to put a good face on things and push it under the rug so we all forget about it is a woman.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Gender based hiring doesn't fix problems. Yes house needs to be cleaned but no gender and ethnicity should play zero role in who replacements are. Hell the current person trying to put a good face on things and push it under the rug so we all forget about it is a woman.
    I 100% agree. Look at Fran Townsend. She's a woman, but she's a fucking lunatic.

    Mind you, they probably hired her because she is a fucking lunatic.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    The leading line, whether implicitly or explicitly, for many posters including these two, has been that it's likely that no abuse occurred.
    They've oscillated between that and 'oh but it's alleged' 'oh let's wait for proof' 'oh it's still gonna go to court'.
    That's defending due process / denouncing witch-hunt mob attitudes, not saying it did or did not happen, not even that it is or is not likely that it happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    And zorkuus had his zinger of, 'it's only creepy if a woman says it is', implying that it's okay to be a creep if no one says anything.
    If that's what he meant, it's still unrelated to his other statements, which stand on their own. You can speculate he's a creep and that he might be dog whistling, but that's entirely on you and not an inherent part of what he actually said on what you quoted.

    Personally, I think that's not what he was trying to say, from what I glanced at. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me all he was saying was that what is "creepy" is not set in stone, and will vary from person to person and situation to situation. In particular he referenced that identical actions can either be seen as "creepy", if made by someone the receiver is not attracted to in any way, or as "sexy"/"hot" if made by someone the receiver is attracted to. That can be true both for men and for woman.

    I won't say he did a particular good job at explaining that, and I didn't follow the whole conversation, but I think at least that was his initial point which you perhaps misinterpreted.
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2021-07-29 at 12:43 PM.

  5. #485
    These employees probably think they're doing something big, ranking themselves right up there next to the bourgeois revolution, pretending like they've worked in a hellhole where seniors flung sex toys into their faces. ActiBlizz is letting this fly in order to not make a PR scandal, but I wouldn't want to be in the employee's shoes.

    Activision will clamp down on Blizzard's independence from now on and this is something they won't let slip; an opportunity for them to sanitize the lax working culture that Blizzard's got going. Bobby's gonna remove the coffee machines too.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-07-29 at 12:49 PM.

  6. #486
    Stuff like that happens no matter it is a company or just ex gf, bf, wife and so on. Hell, prob a huge part of internet porn is based on pictures and videos taken WITH PERMISSION, but uploaded WITHOUT PERMISSION. Lets ban porn sites.

    If someone has done harm by sharing the picture without permission, by harrasing, by sexually abusing, by raping, that someone has to pay for what he has done, after a JUDGE decides how.

    But to cancel all humanity for one's deeds, that is not the way to go. Seems like boored people, that took an liberty/democracy overdose, dream of a totalitarian regime similar to the one in Equilibrium.

    Hell, if one man in a car drives into another human being and kills it, lets BAN CARS along with convicting the driver, cause they are the tool of the KILLER.

    Seems like the next step in the Political Cancel Culture is to BAN all those "BAD" jokes from Stand-Up, cause maybe there is someone that could get hurt in there or maybe someone will "learn" from the jokes and try to reproduce them in real life.

    Hell, lets ban FPS games, cause they might program us to do shootings in real life.

    Lets just ban PARTIES, and similar stuff that involves booze, to diminish the probability of someone being groomed, male or female.

    Boys like to have fun, girls like to have fun, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some of them consider fun while having some type of flirting, while others consider that type of flirting ... harrasement.

    We are all alike, as flesh and bones, but we differ from one another, no mater the gender, skin colour, race, etc.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    It's really easy to 'defend due process'. Don't go on a rampage trying to explain why something might not be true.

    Just draw a line and say, 'I'm not getting involved in this until the court case has concluded'.

    RE: your second point, that's basically what a lot of people hide behind when dogwhistling.

    'Ah, you think I said that but I didn't! I had this tiny loophole that allows me an exit from the implication'. Jordan Peterson tactics.
    They will 100 percent not remove food and drink or "leisure activities" all the big companies whether actiblizz or Google try to get their employees spending as much time on campus as possible these posistions are salaried not hourly.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    It's really easy to 'defend due process'. Don't go on a rampage trying to explain why something might not be true.

    Just draw a line and say, 'I'm not getting involved in this until the court case has concluded'.

    RE: your second point, that's basically what a lot of people hide behind when dogwhistling.

    'Ah, you think I said that but I didn't! I had this tiny loophole that allows me an exit from the implication'. Jordan Peterson tactics.
    In a real postmodernist fashion there is no objective truth so you cant tell others what the mean when they said something.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    It's really easy to 'defend due process'. Don't go on a rampage trying to explain why something might not be true.
    If by "going on a rampage" you mean looking at new information critically and with the mindset that we don't have full information or context, then I think it's more than fair to do and discuss it that way, especially considering the "rampage" of people eagerly waiting for any new information to shit on anyone even remotely related to this situation, regardless of context or of information being only alleged/rumors or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    'Ah, you think I said that but I didn't! I had this tiny loophole that allows me an exit from the implication'. Jordan Peterson tactics.
    Sure. Or it can also be an honest mistake on your part of misjudging or misreading him.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    If by "going on a rampage" you mean looking at new information critically and with the mindset that we don't have full information or context, then I think it's more than fair to do and discuss it that way, especially considering the "rampage" of people eagerly waiting for any new information to shit on anyone even remotely related to this situation, regardless of context or of information being only alleged/rumors or not.



    Sure. Or it can also be an honest mistake on your part of misjudging or misreading him.
    I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about various posters here who are calling all of this cancel culture and too woke etc.

    To me, it’s not a mistake. And I’m honest enough to say I’m going to trust my judgement here, thank you very much.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about various posters here who are calling all of this cancel culture and too woke etc.
    To me, it’s not a mistake. And I’m honest enough to say I’m going to trust my judgement here, thank you very much.
    I'm just saying I haven't seen that targeting the situation as a whole in general. 'Cancel culture' has been used for fans' reactions on twitter and reddit, not the lawsuit. 'Too woke' I've seen but targeted at particular things, such as the employees' demand that seems to support positive discrimination in hiring.

    Fair enough, that's your choice.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    5. It's simple. One joke. Okay, someone asks for it stop. Two joke. Why hasn't it stopped? Repeat occasions. It's harassment.
    No, it's declining the request of stopping humour because your snowflake feefees get offended. Big difference.
    Believing anything that doesn't go your way to be harassment is the height of woke entitlement.

    I don't WANT harassment to be a thing at ANY workplace. Simple, really.
    Not that simple when you just proved yourself uncapable of differentiating between harassment and people flipping the bird when faced with stupid requests.
    If you don't like something it's up to you to leave, not for the world to revolve and accomodate all your problems.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Nimin View Post
    No, it's declining the request of stopping humour because your snowflake feefees get offended. Big difference.
    Believing anything that doesn't go your way to be harassment is the height of woke entitlement.
    Are you then saying that if I walk up to anyone and grab their crotch and say it's a joke, that's perfectly fine? Cause it seems like that's what you're saying.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    I'm just saying I haven't seen that targeting the situation as a whole in general. 'Cancel culture' has been used for fans' reactions on twitter and reddit, not the lawsuit. 'Too woke' I've seen but targeted at particular things, such as the employees' demand that seems to support positive discrimination in hiring.

    Fair enough, that's your choice.
    There's enough sickos that have called all of it cancel culture and too woke. Feel free to search through the myriad threads yourself.

    We're good. Have a good day, dude. PS. Check this winner out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimin View Post
    No, it's declining the request of stopping humour because your snowflake feefees get offended. Big difference.
    Believing anything that doesn't go your way to be harassment is the height of woke entitlement.



    Not that simple when you just proved yourself uncapable of differentiating between harassment and people flipping the bird when faced with stupid requests.
    If you don't like something it's up to you to leave, not for the world to revolve and accomodate all your problems.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Are you then saying that if I walk up to anyone and grab their crotch and say it's a joke, that's perfectly fine? Cause it seems like that's what you're saying.
    Only if you're on drugs and can't tell the difference between words and actions.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Are you then saying that if I walk up to anyone and grab their crotch and say it's a joke, that's perfectly fine? Cause it seems like that's what you're saying.
    Big difference between making jokes and physically touching someone.

  17. #497
    I'll say, as bad as "The Cosby Suite" certainly sounds and looks, given the timeline of events, it seems more like an INCREDIBLY poorly-ages joke, than an actual reference to sexual deviancy. There is an insane amount of irony, but in THIS ONE, SINGLE INSTANCE, I'm personally of a mind to give some amount of benefit of the doubt.

    These guys were clearly being sleazy, but let's be real; as a single man in my 30's, if I'm ever traveling anyone, I always pack "protection". The reason is simple; guys are hardwired for sex, and we want to be prepared for any opportunity. Think about these guys; a bunch of programmers and otherwise "nerds", who knows what their personal lives are like, but at Blizzcon, these guys are treated like genuine rockstars. It may be sleazy, and it may be juvenile, but there is no man on earth who is single who wouldn't be in that position and think "man, this would be an amazing opportunity to get laid".

    Now given what we all now know about Afrasiabi -- and they all most most certainly did, as well -- it definitely paints a picture of "at least ONE of these guys should've had more sense". But at the same time, if they're at Blizzcon and inviting women up to a hotel suite for drinks and to hang out... well, things can easily get sort of muddy. To be clear, No ALWAYS means No, but I also know women who will go to parties or "a friend's house for drinks", and end up sleeping with someone they regret. It still sucks, mind you, but that's kind of a different conversation.

    This does NOT excuse any behavior towards their coworkers, particularly while IN professional settings (and "work parties" are still considered professional settings). Given some of the allegations I've seen towards Afrasiabi, I'm genuinely shocked somebody hasn't physically beat his ass for some of the shit he's pulled. This "Cosby Suite" stuff, at least from what I have seen SO FAR (and there is constantly more information coming out, so I stand ready to eat crow), it seems more like "a bunch of geeks pretending to be rockstars" rather than anything genuinely disturbing.

    But again, that's just going off what I read specifically about the "Cosby Suite" so far. The rest of the Afrasiabi stuff I've seen is completely inexcusable.

  18. #498
    Never again are we going to have proper investigations by professional of the law using real evidences anymore are we ?

    It's all gonna be leaked years old out of context screenshots and twitter level witch hunting is it ?

  19. #499
    Jesus, there's more content in this lawsuit than in Shadowlands.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    That's not entirely true. There had been accusations made about him prior to that going back to many years earlier that simply weren't prosecuted and there were rumors about him partaking in that sort of behavior for quite a while as well. Thus why you had comedians calling him out for it on stage. More so in certain circles. It is quite possible that the devs who gathered in the Cosby suite were fully aware of those rumors.
    Cosby's allegations went mainstream in 2014 while there were accusations before, they were mostly downplayed and Cosby's PR firm was very good at any damage control. Remember, there was no #metoo, etc, and a lot of the allegations were just dismissed as that, allegations.

    If you look through the actual tweets in 2013, no one brings up anything about Cosby because no one really cared until 2014. I'm curious to see if there's any references post 2014, which I find extremely unlikely.

    Just look at the *actual* replies to GC's tweet in 2013. That's the mindset in 2013. Cosby is pudding, Zip zop zoobity bop, etc.

    You could make the argument that those allegations should've been taken more seriously, but the reality is they weren't.

    You’re right that the accusations weren’t accepted as mainstream truth until Hannibal Burress’s 2014 comedy routine. But they had come to light much earlier. Ta-Nahesi Coates regretted passing on them in his 2008 critique of Cosby

    https://twitter.com/dancow/status/1420497170894049283

    Basically, most people, rightfully or wrongfully, gave Cosby a pass until 2014. For a very similar story, most people gave R. Kelly a pass, rightfully or wrongfully, until the documentary Surviving R Kelly.

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