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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    1. I can tell you first hand that word gets around the entertainment industry. Because departments work so closely across sectors even. Voice actors, VFX people, sound people, music people, etc. It's not like newsletters get sent out or people say 'don't tell the tech nerds this bit of juicy gossip'. People talk. It goes around. Even Alex's behaviour would've likely been an open secret within Blizzard, but again because of seniority, no one DOES anything about it.
    It's just that a number of persons at Blizzard say that they didn't know Alex behavior; both men and women - so it doesn't seem like the word got around that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    2. Honestly I don't know whether the name was given because of Alex's behaviour or not. And frankly it doesn't matter in the grand scheme.
    To me it would matter, because: it would make it even more systematic and well-known, some (like Greg Street) claim ignorance of that, and it is part of the law-suit.

    However, thinking more naming it after Cosby makes little sense: if you are a male game developer trying to indicate that this is where you "score" chicks - why call it Cosby suite and not reference Larry Loffler *wink* *wink* (they might even steal a bit of old marketing material I guess)? If females named it as a warning, it seems odd and non-working.
    So, to me it seems that at least many didn't understand the name to refer to Cosby's sexual assaults.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Do we know these particular women were employees and not say blizzcon attendees?
    We don't know, but I'm not sure if the company would have viewed that as significantly better.

    Both because they might be future employees (like Olivia Grace), and because it's problematic in general.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    It's just that a number of persons at Blizzard say that they didn't know Alex behavior; both men and women - so it doesn't seem like the word got around that much.


    To me it would matter, because: it would make it even more systematic and well-known, some (like Greg Street) claim ignorance of that, and it is part of the law-suit.

    However, thinking more naming it after Cosby makes little sense: if you are a male game developer trying to indicate that this is where you "score" chicks - why call it Cosby suite and not reference Larry Loffler *wink* *wink* (they might even steal a bit of old marketing material I guess)? If females named it as a warning, it seems odd and non-working.
    So, to me it seems that at least many didn't understand the name to refer to Cosby's sexual assaults.
    1. I think people in senior management knew. Because they'd have been aware of complaints.

    2. As far as people around him are concerned, Dave Kosak definitely knew because he actually would go on to support many claims against Alex.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Do we know these particular women were employees and not say blizzcon attendees?
    Then that particular picture wouldn't be evidence of workplace sexual harassment. Case closed! Blizzo is innocent, pack it up, folks.

    No, but seriously, the sealioning is getting sad at this point. Whether or not a picture no one here has seen is evidence of workplace sexual harassment does nothing to dislodge the issue that at least one senior employee (note that said employee has since been terminated by blizzard for being a sex pest on at least one other occasion) was a sex pest in a coercive environment at a work function.
    More's the point it does nothing to show despite parties of this kind being a legal and HR nightmare the culture at blizzard was such that it was not only not stopped by HR, at least one HR representative was present.

    How about instead of defending a ridiculously fraught workplace party hosted by a sex pest wherein they 'allegedly' did some sex pesting, we do some critical analysis of why we feel the need to defend said party.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    1. I think people in senior management knew. Because they'd have been aware of complaints.
    Possibly, the timing is a bit unclear. However, the point was that the normal employees didn't seem to gossip that much about Alex - so why gossip about Cosby?

    In general the timing is unclear: "Two other former Blizzard developers told Kotaku that when they heard about the “Cosby Suite” through whisper networks they clearly interpreted it as a reference to the allegations against him."

    Could it be that they heard about the "Cosby suite" later - perhaps in preparation for Blizzcon 2014 ("there shall always be a Cosby suite"); perhaps later, and the 2014 revelations made them understand it in that way, and that this later understanding made its way into the law-suit? If so the law-suit has been spiced up a bit unnecessarily; as there are enough actual issues to discuss without adding that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    2. As far as people around him are concerned, Dave Kosak definitely knew because he actually would go on to support many claims against Alex.
    Which makes everything super-weird. Did Kosak know that it was named after Cosby to indicate that there were sexual assaults going on there, bring his wife and friend, and step in to stop sexual harassment?

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Then that particular picture wouldn't be evidence of workplace sexual harassment. Case closed! Blizzo is innocent, pack it up, folks.
    If you had kept up with the convo you would know that was not the issue. The issue I have with is some posters making stuff up around this mystery picture we haven't even seen. Stick with the facts only and people will be more inclined to believe the story itself. Padding it up with one's imagination does not help to convince those who deny the story (I'm not one of them btw before you go there).
    Last edited by zorkuus; 2021-07-30 at 12:08 PM.

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Possibly, the timing is a bit unclear. However, the point was that the normal employees didn't seem to gossip that much about Alex - so why gossip about Cosby?

    In general the timing is unclear: "Two other former Blizzard developers told Kotaku that when they heard about the “Cosby Suite” through whisper networks they clearly interpreted it as a reference to the allegations against him."

    Could it be that they heard about the "Cosby suite" later - perhaps in preparation for Blizzcon 2014 ("there shall always be a Cosby suite"); perhaps later, and the 2014 revelations made them understand it in that way, and that this later understanding made its way into the law-suit? If so the law-suit has been spiced up a bit unnecessarily; as there are enough actual issues to discuss without adding that.


    Which makes everything super-weird. Did Kosak know that it was named after Cosby to indicate that there were sexual assaults going on there, bring his wife and friend, and step in to stop sexual harassment?
    Cosby is more famous, the word would get out far easier than something about Alex. Even internally. Because no one's focused on shushing Cosby talk. For what it's worth, even with the fact that I'm saying word gets around, I'm finding it hard to entirely rationalise the idea that it was named after Cosby because Alex was some kind of creep. Because that would literally indict every single person who ever went to that party as knowing Alex was a creep. It's why I'm not even that bothered about the naming of the Suite. It's one of those peripheral bits as of now. Unless things change.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Bro, a lot of people on this site are so busy trying to be antisexist that they are stereotyping all women as these perfectly innocent angels. For every group chat that guys have, girls have one just as bad if not worse. For every guy out there trying to score, there's a girl out there cruising for dick.

    There's dudes on this site that get 0 action. And because no girls act flirty around them, hit on them, or feel safe enough to be extremely slutty around them, they assume it never happens. They instantly default to "abuse" in scenarios like the Cosby room and the picture and just cannot comprehend that the women were having just as much fun as the men.
    Actually men and women are quite different in this regard. Sure, woman look to get laid too but not even close to men numbers. Look it up on the Internet, you'll find plenty of studies in that regard.

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by DeusX View Post
    Actually men and women are quite different in this regard. Sure, woman look to get laid too but not even close to men numbers. Look it up on the Internet, you'll find plenty of studies in that regard.
    Try to get laid =/= get laid. Women can be just as horny as men, the only difference is they can get results faster so they don't need to be constanly searching.

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by DeusX View Post
    Actually men and women are quite different in this regard. Sure, woman look to get laid too but not even close to men numbers. Look it up on the Internet, you'll find plenty of studies in that regard.
    If you gotta look at studies to learn about women, you might be one of the people im talking about.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezzet View Post
    Yeah? A picture taking 2013, 1 YEAR before Cosby became a worldwide known Rapist. And that they brought women to that room, yeah? Is that in any way illegal? No.
    And again, one of the victims themself litterly said on twitter that she thinks Greg is very nice guy but then you also have to remember that these guys were all friends. Do you go around thinking if any of your friend is a rapist or even a murderer? I highly doubt you do because we see people we have known for years and count as friends in a different light and can become blindsided.
    '
    I am not defend any of the accused but Greg isn't being accused but he is taking so much hate right now for just knowing Alex, you don't think that's overkill? He even admits his fault and tries.
    Cosby was accused before 2014, it just wasn’t as mainstream before then.
    I’ve also said in another thread that I’m the type of person who believes things can be taken out of context and that the entire Cosby suite thing could have been an off the cuff joke that just kept getting bigger and bigger. The issue is that the benefit of the doubt thing grows smaller as every person asked gives a different excuse for how it started.
    These guys posted a picture of them holding a framed picture of Cosby, called the room the Cosby suite, and Cosby had accusations against him before 2014.
    As far as being a nice guy, that doesn’t mean that he knew nothing about what was going on. Plenty of people have been described as nice guys while being complete shits.
    As I stated, I’m not saying Greg participated in anything, or even knew; but, there is evidence to suggest he possibly could have.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    is there something wrong with dudes wanting to meet and bring chicks to hangout with? lmfao. thats not even remotely problematic and the cosby suite was well before cosby raping women was main stream news to most people.
    But as I posted to another person, Cosby had been accused before that. Not being mainstream doesn’t mean completely unknown. Questioned employees also gave different reasons as to why it was called the Cosby suite, and some of those reasons come across as a complete lie (stating ugly walls that looked like his sweater when the walls were white).
    The issue is that the photo shows Greg was obviously in on the joke, and depending on the reason it was actually called the Cosby suite could be pretty damning to him.
    As I’ve stated multiple times, I’m not saying Greg had any idea of what was going on, but with the things we know now, such as the photo, being part of group texts, allegations of coworkers pulling Afrasiabi away from women, it’s hard to say he 100% had no idea what was happening.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Cosby was accused before 2014, it just wasn’t as mainstream before then.
    I’ve also said in another thread that I’m the type of person who believes things can be taken out of context and that the entire Cosby suite thing could have been an off the cuff joke that just kept getting bigger and bigger. The issue is that the benefit of the doubt thing grows smaller as every person asked gives a different excuse for how it started.
    These guys posted a picture of them holding a framed picture of Cosby, called the room the Cosby suite, and Cosby had accusations against him before 2014.
    As far as being a nice guy, that doesn’t mean that he knew nothing about what was going on. Plenty of people have been described as nice guys while being complete shits.
    As I stated, I’m not saying Greg participated in anything, or even knew; but, there is evidence to suggest he possibly could have.
    Look there's a lot of conflicting things out there about the story, and some of them come from the press. And that doesn't help.
    For example it isn't clear where the picture came from. Some say it came with the room. Some say these guys brought it with them.
    If it came with the room, it's easy to see how they would make some harmless but dumb inside joke about it.
    Last edited by zorkuus; 2021-07-30 at 12:34 PM.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    I do but you and many other like you want to completely ignore it and act like you are far above the rest of the world since you have yet again entered the era of witch hunting.
    It's not "witch hunting" when you're constantly finding witches.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    It's not "witch hunting" when you're constantly finding witches.
    I mean, it's more witch appearances at that point.

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Look there's a lot of conflicting things out there about the story, and some of them come from the press. And that doesn't help.
    For example it isn't clear where the picture came from. Some say it came with the room. Some say these guys brought it with them.
    I read that story. It was one of the first ones that came out and when discussing it a guild member brought up an interesting point: what hotel puts a photo of a celebrity on the wall? Did they put a photo up of Cosby next to Sandusky?
    I’ve tried using Google to find something to counter that point, and I haven’t found anything. If you find something, please let me know because all I can find is celebrities posing at hotels. Nothing with their pictures being in an actual room.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I read that story. It was one of the first ones that came out and when discussing it a guild member brought up an interesting point: what hotel puts a photo of a celebrity on the wall? Did they put a photo up of Cosby next to Sandusky?
    I’ve tried using Google to find something to counter that point, and I haven’t found anything. If you find something, please let me know because all I can find is celebrities posing at hotels. Nothing with their pictures being in an actual room.
    I had one with a picture of Bill Murray lol

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    It's not "witch hunting" when you're constantly finding witches.
    Throw a bucket of shit on a crowd of 1000 people and it’s going to stick to at least some of them.
    I see both points, and I don’t think witch hunting is the proper term for this instance. It would have been more accurate if the state of CA went into ActiBlizz with no inkling of what to look for and just looking for anything. They’d be bound to find something on some employees out of how big of a company it is.
    That didn’t happen in this case. They were following up on specific allegations. So no witch hunt happened here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I had one with a picture of Bill Murray lol
    Which hotel? Proof? Was this a special room? How long ago was this? Anything not anecdotal that can be proven?

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Cosby is more famous, the word would get out far easier than something about Alex. Even internally.
    Possibly, but I somewhat doubt that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    For what it's worth, even with the fact that I'm saying word gets around, I'm finding it hard to entirely rationalise the idea that it was named after Cosby because Alex was some kind of creep. Because that would literally indict every single person who ever went to that party as knowing Alex was a creep.
    I agree that the name is just odd, and we don't really have a good explanation.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I read that story. It was one of the first ones that came out and when discussing it a guild member brought up an interesting point: what hotel puts a photo of a celebrity on the wall? Did they put a photo up of Cosby next to Sandusky?
    I’ve tried using Google to find something to counter that point, and I haven’t found anything. If you find something, please let me know because all I can find is celebrities posing at hotels. Nothing with their pictures being in an actual room.
    Quick search came up with this: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Location...t_England.html
    I'm sure there's more. Maybe a bit unusual practise but that doesn't make it non-existant.

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Junior employees taking part in sex acts at the behest of senior employees, while those senior employees are present, at a company event is such a fraught issue I can scarce believe it needs to be explained.
    Where exactly have you seen the information that the women in question were junior employees, and that they were doing that at the behest of senior employees, though?

    Also, not sure if a party in a hotel room after blizzcon is over for the day can be considered a "company event", especially depending on when exactly it happened for which we have no information (might have happened after the party even). Employees are allowed to be friends outside of work, and a group of employees having a party together after blizzcon does not automatically make it a company event in my eyes.

    I agree on the potential power inbalance potential issues (although that shouldn't be assumed), and even if they were total strangers not even remotely related to the industry it would still look bad and be pretty questionable. And of course it only looks/sounds worse given the lawsuit.

    All I'm saying is that if you look beyond how it looks/sounds like in retrospective, the few alleged facts we know don't really paint a picture that something inherently or purposefully wrong happened there. Is it possible that was the case? Sure. But based on the information I've seen there's really no way to tell without making big assumptions.

    People are seeing what they want to see.
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2021-07-30 at 01:08 PM.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    If you gotta look at studies to learn about women, you might be one of the people im talking about.
    *grin*

    This and other threads about this is quite revealing indeed.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

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