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  1. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Yeah, I believe they are wrong in saying it’s a work event; however, it is fraternization between 2 employees. This is usually frowned upon by many companies as it can lead to favoritism and preferential treatment. Some companies, such as the one I work for, have rules against a supervisor and subordinate hanging out outside of work hours.
    All that aside and back to the main point, I’m pretty sure you are correct in that it’s not a work event to hang out when not at work.
    Ahh, for us its actually encouraged. Team bonding I guess to improve morale. Just can't date a subordinate and if u really must, they will move u to a dif department to remove conflict of interest

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Yes? Why in the world would you assume it's a reference to something that didn't become public for months especially when it's talked about being a reference to an old meeting room and that the tweets referencing it are clearly referencing a past room.

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    No it wasn't not in the gaming industry. Especially back then there is a less overlap than you think. If it was that well known do you think any women would be consenting to go to a room that they were identifying as the cosby room when inviting people?
    To add on to that, if it was that much public knowledge at that point why on EARTH would they publicly tweet about it???
    The investigation has made it very clear that blizzard is a complete shitshow when it comes to workers rights and sexual harassment and people should 100% be held accountable (the right people).
    But the more that surfaces about the Cosby suite, the more it looks to me like an inside joke that aged badly and resurfaced at a terrible time.
    Last edited by Delever; 2021-07-30 at 02:00 PM.

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    To add on to that, if it was that much public knowledge at that point why on EARTH would they publicly tweet about it???
    The investigation has made it very clear that blizzard is a complete shitshow when it comes to workers rights and sexual harassment and people should 100% be held accountable (the right people).
    But the more that surfaces about the Cosby suite, the more it looks to me like an inside joke that aged badly and resurfaced at a terrible time.
    Whatever the case, I wouldn't trust fucking Kotaku to give a non-sensationalist report on the story.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Whatever the case, I wouldn't trust fucking Kotaku to give a non-sensationalist report on the story.
    But all it takes is also a little bit of common sense to realize that all this fuss about the cosby suite doesn't make sense. And all it takes is to take the extreme into consideration. Even if we assume that they knew about cosby at that time and decided to name the suite after him as an intentional rape joke, why on earth would they PUBLICLY post chats from it and openly tweet the name?? It makes 0 sense. These people have a better idea of PR than most of us and this would be blatant PR suicide.
    This is not a downplay on any of the victims or their experiences and i strongly believe justice should be served on the likes of Afrasiabi.
    But the cosby suite is starting to seem like it's been taken completely out of context.

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    But all it takes is also a little bit of common sense to realize that all this fuss about the cosby suite doesn't make sense. And all it takes is to take the extreme into consideration. Even if we assume that they knew about cosby at that time and decided to name the suite after him as an intentional rape joke, why on earth would they PUBLICLY post chats from it and openly tweet the name?? It makes 0 sense. These people have a better idea of PR than most of us and this would be blatant PR suicide.
    This is not a downplay on any of the victims or their experiences and i strongly believe justice should be served on the likes of Afrasiabi.
    But the cosby suite is starting to seem like it's been taken completely out of context.
    The Kotaku article mentions the hotel room was Afrasiabi’s. But then there are other sources, such as Greg Street that say it was a company green room. Someone's coloring the story.

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Yes? Why in the world would you assume it's a reference to something that didn't become public for months especially when it's talked about being a reference to an old meeting room and that the tweets referencing it are clearly referencing a past room.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No it wasn't not in the gaming industry. Especially back then there is a less overlap than you think. If it was that well known do you think any women would be consenting to go to a room that they were identifying as the cosby room when inviting people?
    Cosby was accused, and it was made public, long before the 2013 photo of them posing with a framed picture of him. It just didn’t became mainstream in the media until 2014, and then that was followed with many more victims stepping forward.

  7. #747
    Afrasiabi sounds like such a douche. He was probably a virgin until he gained some notoriety with World of Warcraft.

  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Cosby was accused, and it was made public, long before the 2013 photo of them posing with a framed picture of him. It just didn’t became mainstream in the media until 2014, and then that was followed with many more victims stepping forward.
    OK. Can you please explain to me why would a bunch of well known blizzard employees and public figures openly use it as a joke and publicly tweet about it if they knew about it? And if you see the responses to the tweets from back then not a single soul bats an eye about the reference be it male or female.
    Last edited by Delever; 2021-07-30 at 02:26 PM.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    The problem is that the Wage Gap is a foregone conclusion, we already know that it exists in the West (esp. the Americas; refer to Pew Research). At the current time what is up for debate is the amount, as parity has not yet been reached. I believe the U.S. dept. of labor also published a report in which argued that the wage gap was as low as 4-6%, though I don't have a link to that one as it has been a while since I talked about the wage gap.

    That said, the wage gap is an especially difficult conversation to have. What seems to always happen is that one side becomes irate due to emotional investment in the issue (i.e.: believing that the cause of the wage gap and arguments about it are due to intentional discrimination than implicit bias or ignorance), and the other side will put forward arguments that are only plausible explanations to laypersons (i.e.: people who sit and argue that not all factors are accounted for, ignoring the fact that it's people's job to account for whatever factors could impact studies done on employee wages).

    ** EDIT **
    I believe this is the report, quoted the relevant section to what I was stating, though will have the full document linked below:

    - Source
    If you want the biggest reason for the wage gap it's actually pretty simple without even talking about propensity to argue for higher salaries. Most promotions and wage bumps are based on time spent. Maternity leave doesn't count as time spent with the company if you take out a 3+ month chunk somewhat early in career that makes a huge difference. Not saying that's right just saying the US is very behind in terms of how companies treat parents. Paternity leave is basically unheard of and maternity leave isn't counted as time with the company.

  10. #750
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Just a total sidetone from this Cosby chat. Metzen said he didn't work with Alex since like WOTLK and only really dealt with him at story jams.



    They seem pretty pally here in 2018. So it's all just a bit muddy, really. And no, I'm not implying Metzen is a creep.

    But I am saying it'll be really odd if he didn't know Alex had issues dating back that long.
    To be fair with Metzen, he was drunk and high all the time. He had his own ghosts to deal with, so its possible that he truly misunderstood all the signs.

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Cosby was accused, and it was made public, long before the 2013 photo of them posing with a framed picture of him. It just didn’t became mainstream in the media until 2014, and then that was followed with many more victims stepping forward.
    No it wasn't there was one case back in like 2004 that was dismissed. Again if it was well known you wouldn't name a suite that you plan to take advantage of women in after him. It's real simple he was an insanely well known comedian who blizz's top brass was 100 percent in the age range that would have grown up hearing his jokes and seeing stuff like the fat albert show. Their green room apparently had a distasteful carpet that reminded them of the sweaters he wore and since that time whatever the hangout room was got called that. Really not hard to comprehend. If the accusations were well known you wouldn't name a room that you are literally telling people to come to by that name the Cosby Suite. This isn't hard to comprehend there is enough bad shit without trying to claim that somehow the top part of blizzard knew about the upcoming accusations but none of the people they were inviting did.

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    OK. Can you please explain to me why would a bunch of well known blizzard employees and public figures openly use it as a joke and publicly tweet about it if they knew about it? And if you see the responses to the tweets from back then not a single soul bats an eye about the reference be it male or female.
    This is exactly my take.

    There's no way that the room was purposely named after a known rapist, posted about unironically on social media in reference to a rapist where they planned on sexually harassing employees and others and allegedly raping them, talking about it openly as a joke with members of the community and staff, and them still be able to hold jobs for as long as they have while not being investigated at all or even arrested.

    It being called the "Cosby Suite" is most definitely not in direct relation to him being a rapist. Everyone involved and OK with it being called "The Cosby Suite" at the time would have to be beyond tone deaf and stupid to do that, and none of those people are that stupid. At least not THAT kind of stupid. Frat boy, brodude, drunk college party, make bad decisions stupid....not "hey I'm going to name my room after a rapist, break the law and company policy and then post about it on social media and talk about it openly, get the boss in on the joke and expect not get fired, caught or arrested" levels of stupid.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    No it wasn't there was one case back in like 2004 that was dismissed. Again if it was well known you wouldn't name a suite that you plan to take advantage of women in after him. It's real simple he was an insanely well known comedian who blizz's top brass was 100 percent in the age range that would have grown up hearing his jokes and seeing stuff like the fat albert show. Their green room apparently had a distasteful carpet that reminded them of the sweaters he wore and since that time whatever the hangout room was got called that. Really not hard to comprehend. If the accusations were well known you wouldn't name a room that you are literally telling people to come to by that name the Cosby Suite. This isn't hard to comprehend there is enough bad shit without trying to claim that somehow the top part of blizzard knew about the upcoming accusations but none of the people they were inviting did.
    Pretty much this. I m glad there are people out there with some modicum of logic. Blizz is undeniably and rightfully in deep shit. But the cosby suite thing doesn't seem to be related to the rest.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    The Kotaku article mentions the hotel room was Afrasiabi’s. But then there are other sources, such as Greg Street that say it was a company green room. Someone's coloring the story.
    It's the lawsuit that presents it as Afrasiabi's suite.

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    OK. Can you please explain to me why a bunch of well known blizzard employees openly use it as a joke and publicly tweet about it if they knew about it? And if you see the responses to the tweets from back then not a single soul bats an eye about the reference be it male or female.
    Because he was never found guilty up to that point. Look how many jokes were made about Michael Jackson after he was accused of being a pedophile. How many people still went to his shows just to see him live and get autographs after that incident. Imagine how they would feel if new evidence ever came out to prove it actually happened.
    In 2013, Cosby had never been found guilty of past allegations. I can easily see some off the cuff joke being made of Afrasiabi having to “pull a Cosby” to get intimate with someone and that remark taking on a life of its own, up to the point someone getting the framed photo as a joke in an attempt to embarrass him in good fun. Fast forward a year later and it becomes mainstream and more victims step forward and your joke ages poorly and you’re just sitting there like “maybe we went too far with this.”
    Did this scenario happen? I have no f’ing clue. I’m just giving a possible scenario as to what you asked. It very well could have been what some employees stated about ugly walls or carpets.
    At the time of the photo, accusations existed, guilt didn’t. There were probably hundreds to thousands of people, if not many more, making jokes and references at Cosby’s expense that people had no idea were about something that happened and was true.

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    But the cosby suite thing doesn't seem to be related to the rest.
    Of course it is (except for the name). Because the allegations against Alex are regarding what happened inside the suite.

    Really, it's not that hard.

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Because he was never found guilty up to that point. Look how many jokes were made about Michael Jackson after he was accused of being a pedophile.
    When Michael Jackson was accused it was immediately all over the media. The Bill Cosby stuff, prior to 2014 wasn't. I hadn't heard a peep about it.

  18. #758
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by YorHa-Unit-2B View Post
    I'd love to see all the private group chat messages from all of these people that are holier than thou, ready to burn everyone with great vengeance and furious anger over some dumbass comments they made 10 years ago. This whole Cosby suite chat thing feels like a diversion from the actual problems like the working conditions and the extremely reprehensible way some women in the company were treated by certain known individuals (individuals that will pay). Sensationalism rules.
    I feel the same. There are a lot of points from this, and it has to be taken in the whole perspective of the time and place.

    1- Blizzard back then was a pioneer in interacting with fans, both on their forums and creating events such as Blizzcon. Before that, people were lucky to find a website with beta details and a few discussion forums to report bugs. No one in the industry had experience with that kind of stuff, and the face of the people working in these places was very ‘nerd male engineers’. Essentially, they are now blamed for innovating back then, which does not meet today’s standards anymore.

    2- Put up a panel of 7-8 computer nerds in their twenties/thirties with no training or experience in public relations to answer questions to the public for 2 hours, and you will have some very awkward questions and answers. Honestly, I bet none of you would have done better answering those questions in the same situation.

    3- The whole gaming industry (and everything related such as comics) has really changed in the last 10 years. There are a lot more female employees taking their place, and there are a lot of changes on how things are happening. I feel sorry for the experience that a lot of women had to go through, but I think it is improving, not the opposite. Obviously, the first few women that spearheaded and got into this industry got it rough. It is not different from any other jobs where that happened.

    I think our standards have really changed for the better, but going back 15 years ago and blaming these people for what they have done is not helping anyone. It is far more important how they learned and grown from that now. Afrasiabi seemed to have never grown out of it and was a problem dealt with. But this witch hunt going after things from another era is indeed just sensationalism.

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Because he was never found guilty up to that point. Look how many jokes were made about Michael Jackson after he was accused of being a pedophile. How many people still went to his shows just to see him live and get autographs after that incident. Imagine how they would feel if new evidence ever came out to prove it actually happened.
    In 2013, Cosby had never been found guilty of past allegations. I can easily see some off the cuff joke being made of Afrasiabi having to “pull a Cosby” to get intimate with someone and that remark taking on a life of its own, up to the point someone getting the framed photo as a joke in an attempt to embarrass him in good fun. Fast forward a year later and it becomes mainstream and more victims step forward and your joke ages poorly and you’re just sitting there like “maybe we went too far with this.”
    Did this scenario happen? I have no f’ing clue. I’m just giving a possible scenario as to what you asked. It very well could have been what some employees stated about ugly walls or carpets.
    At the time of the photo, accusations existed, guilt didn’t. There were probably hundreds to thousands of people, if not many more, making jokes and references at Cosby’s expense that people had no idea were about something that happened and was true.
    And I completely agree with you that such a scenario is totally possible. The reason it doesn't seem likely however is because this is not dug up from a personal chat that they hid. These are public figures, well trained in PR talk, publicly tweeting this several times without a single comment at the time on social media condemning them. There should have been at least ONE person telling them that this was inappropriate no?

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    No it wasn't there was one case back in like 2004 that was dismissed. Again if it was well known you wouldn't name a suite that you plan to take advantage of women in after him. It's real simple he was an insanely well known comedian who blizz's top brass was 100 percent in the age range that would have grown up hearing his jokes and seeing stuff like the fat albert show. Their green room apparently had a distasteful carpet that reminded them of the sweaters he wore and since that time whatever the hangout room was got called that. Really not hard to comprehend. If the accusations were well known you wouldn't name a room that you are literally telling people to come to by that name the Cosby Suite. This isn't hard to comprehend there is enough bad shit without trying to claim that somehow the top part of blizzard knew about the upcoming accusations but none of the people they were inviting did.
    As stated to other people, it’s quite possible that it was an off the cuff joke that took on a life of its own. I’ve never stated that Blizzard employees ever assaulted anyone. I’ve only stated that it’s quite possible it has nothing to do with ugly walls or carpet, especially when the walls in the photos are white.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    And I completely agree with you that such a scenario is totally possible. The reason it doesn't seem likely however is because this is not dug up from a personal chat that they hid. These are public figures, well trained in PR talk, publicly tweeting this several times without a single comment at the time on social media condemning them. There should have been at least ONE person telling them that this was inappropriate no?
    There possibly was. We don’t know. There very well could have been people going “that’s just wrong.” Just not in a manner that made them give pause or any deep thought to it.
    It’s also very easy to get caught up in a joke without ever realizing that it’s gone too far. Just look at how many celebrities we have today apologizing for jokes they’ve made in the past.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    When Michael Jackson was accused it was immediately all over the media. The Bill Cosby stuff, prior to 2014 wasn't. I hadn't heard a peep about it.
    That somehow changes the point?

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