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  1. #141
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locruid View Post
    The end of forced arbitration for all employees.
    Worker participation in oversight of hiring and promotion policies.
    The need for greater pay transparency to ensure equality.
    Employee selection of a third party to audit HR and other company processes.

    SO you want some of the Decision making without the risk of a company? You want all the good and none of the bad? If you dont like what the company offers, quit and go somewhere else.
    point by point

    • Forced arbitration is not entirely necessary. I suspect Blizzard pulls the trigger on it more than they need to making it part of their retaliatory culture. Lots of companies manage disputes without going into forced arbitration (which nearly always favors management).
    • I've worked in places where everyone on a team has a chance to speak with potential candidates for the team and a collective decision is made. It works well. In cases where a team decision is not feasible at least everyone gets heard.
    • Posting narrow ranges of pay for certain positions isn't new either. That precludes someone making 50% more than someone else doing the same work.
    • Since the employees don't trust management it's not a huge demand that they have a say in who is going to vet management on their behalf. It is on their behalf after all.

    There's no need to lock into a "If you don't like then quit" stance. That's frankly dumb, unprofessional, and in a consensus environment like Blizzard's unworkable. The path to diversity isn't instant and contrary to what people are saying it doesn't necessarily involve quotas. It's about expanding opportunity for interns, recruiting in places where you may not be recruiting now, being careful about a culture in which I suspect a lot of people get their opportunities because they know someone. Since the someone's to know are primarily white men then you end up where they are.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-07-29 at 01:17 AM.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Explosivo View Post
    uh, at what point did i say he isn't employed because the right? people wanted him kicked out of the NFL DURING his contract (trying to cancel him), not even talking about him not getting a contract afterwards. i do like how you ignore the dixie chicks, remember that? or french fries becoming "freedom fries." besides, you aren't arguing the point- conservatives love cancel culture (when it suits them). want to debate that or you gonna pull out more strawman arguments? you're cute when you try to argue points beside the actual point made, but now that i am directly asking you to demonstrate how the right doesn't engage in cancel culture you'll vanish. it's cute
    I’m specifically referring to your Colin reference. It’s wrong. I don’t give two shits about the Dixie chicks. You are using Colin to preach a narrative, and you are wrong. I don’t believe that either side is without blame (unlike you clearly). You however have some axe to grind on an example that is wrong. It’s as simple as that. I can’t dumb it down any more that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Because based on all of their insensitive and dismissive comments in regards to this lawsuit, it's clear they are lying to try and create a shield. Kinda like how racists will say "I'm not racist! I have black friends!". They have posted several incredibly insensitive comments about the people that were sexually harassed at Blizzard. People who are victims of similar situations have compassion towards other potential victims. They don't write them off and defend the people that harassed/assaulted them.
    So because a person disagrees with you, and doesn’t clearly react to the same situation as you means that their experience wasn’t real or credible. Slippery slope of hypocrisy this judgement.

  3. #143
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Voted for Bernie for what? Unless they happen to all be expats from Vermont, then it's most likely they didn't vote for Bernie for anything.
    ^^ THIS.

    I'm from the South. We knew who we'd vote for and didn't need any "suggestions". I voted for Biden. Finally we had enough campaign signs to KNOW who was voting for who, too (my neighbor she covered her lawn with local/state/national campaign signs!).

    I couldn't vote for Bernie. He has no relation to the South. We were just celebrating in Georgia. We KNEW who'd we'd vote for, but national didn't. SC vote was a snapshot of our thinking then.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Zolaris192 View Post
    this is beginning to sound less like a fight against workplace abuse and more like a communist manifesto
    Now go see how much power employees in pro sports leagues wield. Now granted game studio employees will never hold that sort of power but they are much better off to go on the high end in demands in the hope of compromising to get the things they really want in the future. Honestly I think a lot of posters here are just scared how all of this will impact the release of new wow content and are making the employees out as the bad guys because of it.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfNone View Post
    I’m specifically referring to your Colin reference. It’s wrong. I don’t give two shits about the Dixie chicks. You are using Colin to preach a narrative, and you are wrong. I don’t believe that either side is without blame (unlike you clearly). You however have some axe to grind on an example that is wrong. It’s as simple as that. I can’t dumb it down any more that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So because a person disagrees with you, and doesn’t clearly react to the same situation as you means that their experience wasn’t real or credible. Slippery slope of hypocrisy this judgement.
    They haven't just been disagreeing. They have been actively victim blaming and trivializing the entire lawsuit.

  6. #146
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Oh man this shit-storm just keeps on getting bigger. Cosby also wasn’t accused until 2014, and that picture is apparently from 2013, so that raises some eyebrows.
    There have been accusations going back farther than 2014...it just didn't become big news till then.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    There have been accusations going back farther than 2014...it just didn't become big news till then.
    Also one of the people made a comment about adding a Cosby Suite to Garrisons in 2014.

  8. #148
    Can we please not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Protesting in and out of game - is great, but all the people demanding the end of WoW or promoting the end of WoW because of this - they need to remember that the vast vast majority of WoW creators are victims or innocent, and throwing them under the bus along with the perpetrators - not good.

    PS: Same applies where D3 and the other stuff made are being targeted.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    They haven't just been disagreeing. They have been actively victim blaming and trivializing the entire lawsuit.
    I have read his posts. You see it as trivializing and I see it as being polar reactionary. Could that other poster have more tact? For sure. That doesn’t make him wrong. A lot of his/her points are valid. Too many people here want to skip the trial and the jury, and go straight to execution. His total scope (from what I see) is to make sure that people stay grounded and work within the process of prosecution/defense and not subscribe to “muh feels” and completely ignore truths or other inalienable rights.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Can we please not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Protesting in and out of game - is great, but all the people demanding the end of WoW or promoting the end of WoW because of this - they need to remember that the vast vast majority of WoW creators are victims or innocent, and throwing them under the bus along with the perpetrators - not good.

    PS: Same applies where D3 and the other stuff made are being targeted.
    There is nothing good to be gained by keeping Blizzard on life support.

    Even if we're somehow to handwave the apparent harassment and abuse, there's still the garbage tier wages that force people to take multiple jobs and the crunch culture. To want to stay with Blizzard at this point is Stockholm Syndrome. Rip off the bandaid and find a better place.

  11. #151
    Like clockwork. "Our corporate structure is being attacked for its actual malfeasance. Quick, send out the critical idiots to change the focus of the conversation towards a totally unrelated narrative that makes people forget what they were angry about in the first place".

    The capitalists have this shit down to a fucking science at this point.

  12. #152
    This is how you take an opportunity to make meaningful change and by trying to tack on various union-style demands blow the whole thing.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Can we please not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Protesting in and out of game - is great, but all the people demanding the end of WoW or promoting the end of WoW because of this - they need to remember that the vast vast majority of WoW creators are victims or innocent, and throwing them under the bus along with the perpetrators - not good.

    PS: Same applies where D3 and the other stuff made are being targeted.
    None of the 30 or so people discussing this on here have anywhere near that power regardless. Let's be somewhat realistic here. Ultimately this is almost entirely in Bliz's hands in terms of how they react and repair their workplace and image as well as the games/wow content they produce in the future. They need to right the ship in all of these areas to return to anywhere close to where they were 6 months ago though in terms of profitability. It's all on Bliz. Not on mmo champ posters.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by pfbe View Post
    Like clockwork. "Our corporate structure is being attacked for its actual malfeasance. Quick, send out the critical idiots to change the focus of the conversation towards a totally unrelated narrative that makes people forget what they were angry about in the first place".

    The capitalists have this shit down to a fucking science at this point.
    i truly don't understand why there have been randoms posting about "this is capitalist," "this is communist." it sounds like a bunch of paid shill talk to stir up shit

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    This is how you take an opportunity to make meaningful change and by trying to tack on various union-style demands blow the whole thing.
    Take a totally reasonable and agreeable stance ("employees should not be able to sexually and verbally harass each other, and those that did should be shitcanned.") and use it to trojan horse a lot of contentious ideological bullshit that had nothing to do with the original situation into the mix.

    Many such cases.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfNone View Post
    I have read his posts. You see it as trivializing and I see it as being polar reactionary. Could that other poster have more tact? For sure. That doesn’t make him wrong. A lot of his/her points are valid. Too many people here want to skip the trial and the jury, and go straight to execution. His total scope (from what I see) is to make sure that people stay grounded and work within the process of prosecution/defense and not subscribe to “muh feels” and completely ignore truths or other inalienable rights.
    The trial is purely to determine how badly Blizzard is getting sued and how much they'll be forced to change. There might be criminal cases after but this isn't about determining whether or not they are guilty. Because they've already proved to be guilty. And the poster you speak of doesn't have a single valid point. They've been doing everything they can to trivialize the entire lawsuit and pretty much saying people should just deal with it or leave.

  17. #157
    Blademaster Aloie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Explosivo View Post
    i truly don't understand why there have been randoms posting about "this is capitalist," "this is communist." it sounds like a bunch of paid shill talk to stir up shit
    Idk, I think they’re probably just idiots. Most people don’t tend to comprehend capitalism or communism all that well.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    There is nothing good to be gained by keeping Blizzard on life support.
    They've not been on life support ... and I'd say having a lot of people lose their jobs because of a few nasty people is not good.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    They've not been on life support ... and I'd say having a lot of people lose their jobs because of a few nasty people is not good.
    Lose their jobs? Again, I reiterate: the same jobs where they got

    Grossly underpaid ("pay for your ambitions")
    Were worked to utter physical and mental exhaustion
    Were allegedly free game for sexual harassment and verbal abuse
    Were allegedly passed up for promotion because they didn't belong to the clique


    That job? This is why I say "rip off the bandaid." You and others think that these employees need Blizzard, and to those ends, should stick around to reform it, when in reality they should hightail it out of there and find their way into studios that treat them at least marginally more like dignified human beings.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    The trial is purely to determine how badly Blizzard is getting sued and how much they'll be forced to change. There might be criminal cases after but this isn't about determining whether or not they are guilty. Because they've already proved to be guilty. And the poster you speak of doesn't have a single valid point. They've been doing everything they can to trivialize the entire lawsuit and pretty much saying people should just deal with it or leave.
    I disagree. What I get out of the posts is to point out hypocrisy in many posters in this thread. You aren’t even completely absolved yourself. You infer that because that poster doesn’t act like you, that means that they weren’t assaulted while telling him that assault should be taken seriously and not ignored or trivialized. That’s EXACTLY what you are doing. You are trivializing their claim to assault because that person doesn’t act like you.

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