View Poll Results: Do you like the Shadowlands story?

Voters
381. You may not vote on this poll
  • I like it

    46 12.07%
  • I do not like it

    261 68.50%
  • Indifferent

    74 19.42%
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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    With the recent allegations involving Activison-Blizzard aside, since BFA majority of the community have expressed their opinions in a negative manner towards Blizzard regarding the story.
    "Sylvanas, Saurfang, and many other characters have took a 180 degree or more turn for the worse. They are unrecognizable now.", says one.
    "Sylvanas is getting redeemed. The Jailer is basically f**king Thanos."
    "I will never serve. Except you have been serving for the past 2 expansions."

    While I like the current Shadowlands story, you cannot argue that it can't be better. Many holes are in the plot. Things don't make sense at all like Elune dealing with the Night Elves in BFA. BFA from a story view is the absolute worst garbage writing I have ever seen from this game. Nothing about it did anything good or progressively for the story.

    "It feels weird leading your class hall as a Tauren Druid in Legion and protecting nature and becoming it's guardian only for the pre-patch to go and set a world tree on fire and destroy nature.", says a player.

    Honestly? I think they should abandon the SL story entirely. They should end it with 9.1 and continue it at another point like they seem to be with WoD although Yrel getting villain batted randomly is quite odd. We should get a SL pt 2 in the future where they have the resources, time, and inside-stability to make a good story and a good game.

    My questions for you?
    How would you or could the devs make the story better and do you like the current story or not?


    PC Gamer on Sylvanas, Shadowlands, and more:







    The recent cinematics from Blizzard have been so negatively perceived that they have been flooded with negative comments, jokes and dislikes and thus unlisted out of embarrassment.

    Sadly i find myself agreeing almost entirely with the PC gamer article.
    For some reason they decided to go off the deep end around halfway through Legion. :/

    At least we got a nice cinematic of Sylvie's BF getting decapitated by Tyrande.

    The worst part of it though is that the smaller storylines really aren't bad most of the time (though understandably some people get embittered over them by association).
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  2. #102
    That is how i feel when i see a thread that has X,Y,Z influencer's opinion video about how things should or should not be.



    Tell you what we can do next.
    Let's all grab hands and jump of the ledge like lemmings.


    The amount of influence these people have on the community is just scary.
    Last edited by Unholyvamp; 2021-08-02 at 10:00 AM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The very concept if going to the Shadowlands is enough rope for the story to hang itself I would argue. It's unlikely it will even manage, but the story has taken a significant blow just from actually getting cold hard proof of how the afterlife works.
    As I have said before, we now know enough about the Shadowlands for each ghost we encounter to be a plothole without further explanation.
    I agree entirely that the worst thing about Shadowlands is the premise. The moment it became canon it already did the worst of the damage it was going to do by fucking over death. It is fundamentally, conceptually bad irrespective of any execution purely by removing death as the capstone of any character and instead adding an addendum to it.

    BFA on the other hand as you say had among the best premises they've ever done only to completely ruin not just the premise but every single other aspect it touched, torching all remaining plot threads and turning the factions into indistinguishable grey goo. BFA did its damage in escalating order from its pre-release book BTS onwards, becoming worse and worse with every predictable, inevitable turn of the plot.

    Shadowlands on the other hand did almost all of its damage upon being announced because of its singularly poor concept and all of its absolutely worst aspects as regards execution pertain to elements from BFA from Sylvanas to the night elves. Otherwise in terms of characterization and individual storyline I can more distinctly summarize the personalities of the Venthyr Court than I can the entire Horde council short of Thrall and the Zandalari. The plot's worst sin is that it's derivative, boring and obtuse rather than it being a coke-addled trainwreck that jumps from plot point to plot point wasting away everything in touches in service of destroying one of the main pillars of the setting.

    Should Shadowlands end with the Veil being sealed then a character being killed will be just as final as it would be otherwise where any number of retarded contrivances could return them. On the other hand, the after-effects of neutering every playable race and turning every recurring character into an Anduin pastiche as well as wasting away the Old Gods and Nazjatar within two patches will continue to taint any further narrative.

    P.S and slightly off-topic while Azshara herself was great, Nazjatar itself was abysmal and dealt the deathblow to the naga as a threat when what should've been a gigantic underwater metropolis consisted 60% of overground ruins, inexplicably revealed as a surface area so that the naga are more vulnerable to attack. This with not one but two irritating support races, with those gilblins going on about friendship being a walking argument for Azshara being right.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-08-02 at 10:02 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyvamp View Post
    That is how i feel when i see a thread that has X,Y,Z influencer's opinion video about how things should or should not be.



    Tell you what we can do next.
    Let's all grab hands and jump of the ledge like lemmings.


    The amount of influence these people have on the community is just scary.
    While i agree wholeheartedly, even such pointless talking heads can have a point.
    The truth doesn't stop being true just because a liar told it.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Warhammer 40k's origin story, The Horus Heresy is the only example of galaxy-multi-dimensional-bargain-with-gods stakes are handled well. This is because the setting, despite its absurd scale is grounded in all the best that fiction has to offer.

    The amount of characters, mainly the primarchs, are vast, but they're also highly distinct, extreme personalities, larger than life. They all have a completely unique, well argued, perspective and they're willing to sacrifice everything in order to assert this perspective. Even though the entire galaxy-spanning conflict is split along two factions, just like in WoW, the various philosophies within each faction are often at odds with each other to the point where the characters have as much to fear from their friends as they do from their enemies.

    This is something WoW lacks. Sylvanas is merely an antagonist for the sake of being an antagonist. The lore constantly has to bend around her to accommodate her highly whimsical motivations.

    The protagonist don't have an actual personality. Thrall is Jaina, Jaina is Anduin, Anduin is Baine, Baine is Bolvar. They are never disagreeing on anything, their wants and desires are identical. They look different but they're the same entity.

    Ultimately, The Horus Heresy got away with these giant celestial odds because it was written as a tragedy. The Horus Heresy explained why the 40k universe is such a miserable place in constant strive. It desolved the universe order and everything is conflict.

    WoW on the other hand, constantly has to let he player know they've won. They saved the universe time and time again. Every bad guy ends up dead with loot to be distributed. Order and peace restored to the land, the peasants can sleep sound knowing the dragon is dead.

    By constantly putting the universe at stake, while at the same time being obviously unable to change it in a major fashion, the game has limited its story potential to repeating the same stale story over and over again.
    You're saying that a piece of fiction developed over dozens of books in twenty years and fully explored in a series of 50+ novels is more well realised than a story that is being told in snippets in an interactive environment to facilitate gameplay?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Sadly i find myself agreeing almost entirely with the PC gamer article.
    For some reason they decided to go off the deep end around halfway through Legion. :/

    At least we got a nice cinematic of Sylvie's BF getting decapitated by Tyrande.

    The worst part of it though is that the smaller storylines really aren't bad most of the time (though understandably some people get embittered over them by association).
    I thought they went off the deep-end with WotLK when they revealed most of the Alliance races were robot helpers built by a race of space giants and given a disease that made them fleshy by cosmic tentacle monsters.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    You're saying that a piece of fiction developed over dozens of books in twenty years and fully explored in a series of 50+ novels is more well realised than a story that is being told in snippets in an interactive environment to facilitate gameplay?
    I'm saying that, with a bit of effort and talent, they get to be the same thing.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I agree entirely that the worst thing about Shadowlands is the premise.
    Or rather, how they handled the premise.

    Conceptually, it sounds intriguing - what DOES happen when you're in the realm of death, how does causality work in that case, what is the deal with souls, etc.

    Except we got none of that.

    SL has nothing to do with death, mechanically. NOTHING. WHATSOEVER. It's just another continent like it is in every expansion, we still go around collecting bear asses, and so on. We KILL things in the realm of death, and somehow it seems they, uh, DIE there. And we do, too. And are resurrected the same way we are elsewhere. The exact same way. Absolutely not a single fucking thing is different.

    All "Death" is is a storytelling McGuffin, and not even a particularly smart one. Anima is just Azerite, except instead of Horde/Alliance collecting it the Jailer was. Big Bad Guy with a huge faceless and disposable army, that doesn't consider us a threat and will get his asses kicked for his troubles thank you very much. NOW WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE?

    It could not be more generic. It being in the realm of death has not mattered one bit so far.

  8. #108
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    this. its always funny to me when people praise the whole kultiran arc in BfA, bc it was a just bad.
    granted, not as bad as the whole sylvanas/horde bs, but still bad.
    The story of BFA was really really bad until the Nazjatar arc and then it went downhill with Nzoth but I am willing to give the Nzoth ending the benefit of doubt as it is actually a non-ending of old gods as we have seen in many conversations among npc and then the conversation between Turalyong and Alleria.
    Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was the game that brought me into gaming. I was 17 years old then, I abhorred gaming before this game. From then on, I became a fan of Warcraft and Blizzard. To see it all go down the drain like this is truly sad for me. No king rules forever but at least some of them went down in history as real badasses. I hoped Blizzard and Warcraft would be one of them but it is no longer possible.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Conceptually, it sounds intriguing - what DOES happen when you're in the realm of death, how does causality work in that case, what is the deal with souls, etc.
    What interested me was the opportunity to explore all the different concepts of the afterlife that every race has. It was an opportunity to deepen the World of Warcraft lore, make it more nuanced. It's just that this did not happen. The Shadowlands is its own thing that nobody knew about and it got tacked onto the existing lore without actually interacting with it.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    It always puzzles me why people who (presumably) play video games are so eager to slag off games journalists for not being "proper" journalists, like they don't consider gaming to be a "proper" hobby and instead of quitting decide to attack people who might take it a bit more seriously than they do.
    because 'gaming' journalists often don't know what they are talking about.

  11. #111
    The problem with Shadowlands story is how badly it has retroactively fucked the entire story of Warcraft. Sargeras, who was the ultimate evil for the majority of the game, was actually just a bitch. So were the Titans. Lich King was just a pawn. The Warcraft games don't really make sense anymore. The Warcraft 3 scourge campaign is now just all of the Jailer's underlings fighting each other, just because. This is the problem. In a world that was making tenuous sense at best, they've set what little logic there was on fire.
    Last edited by peepeepoopants; 2021-08-02 at 11:07 AM.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by peepeepoopants View Post
    The problem with Shadowlands story is how badly it has retroactively fucked the entire story of Warcraft. Sargeras, who was the ultimate evil for the majority of the game, was actually just a bitch. So were the Titans. Lich King was just a pawn. The Warcraft games don't really make sense anymore. The Warcraft 3 scourge campaign is now just all of the Jailer's underlings fighting each other, just because. This is the problem. In a world that was making tenuous sense at best, they've set what little logic there was on fire.
    Yeah, the "It was dreadlords all along!"-thing undermined almost all of the WoW lore, most of known history was just a bunch of dreadlords playing 4D chess with each other, apparently.

    It's like there was this lore brainstorm-meeting, somebody asked "Why would the players care about the Jailer? He hasn't done anything they care about.", and Danuser just grabbed a sharpie and penned in "Dreadlords did it all", triumphantly declaring "There, now he's done *everything* they care about!"
    Last edited by mysticx; 2021-08-02 at 11:17 AM.

  13. #113
    When we consider Shadowland's writing alongside the implications of its various retcons, then it is undoubtedly the worst ever seen in WoW.

  14. #114
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyvamp View Post
    That is how i feel when i see a thread that has X,Y,Z influencer's opinion video about how things should or should not be.



    Tell you what we can do next.
    Let's all grab hands and jump of the ledge like lemmings.


    The amount of influence these people have on the community is just scary.
    Oh yes. Really horrible. Tali is much more neutral on things and also more intelligent.
    SL story is really bad and even though 9.1 is better than the initial launched X-Pac it's still not very good but I can still enjoy the game and there is simply no MMORPG outside of wow that I can enjoy. FF style is really horrible for me, the new Amazon MMORPG looks also not good. Let's just hope this X-Pac doesn't last so long
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The plot is hot garbage, obviously, but not the worst ever, it's hard to unseat BFA and in terms of pure writing incompetence on all fronts TBC still towers over the competition with ease.
    To be perfectly honest WarCraft lore and story was always bad, cringe and illogical. It didn't really start with tbc, cata, WoD, BfA and not SL. Problem is that they they kinda knew it and were well aware its thrash and so they did not push it that hard under spotlight like they started doing once they somehow came to conclusion that sht they are doing is worth exposing.
    Besides such story narrative style (global scale wold ending threats) should have no place in MMO anyway imho.

  16. #116
    Plot was okish up to and including MoP, not Tolkien but OK

    It has been a hot tub of manure since with the possible exception of Legion which was basically TBC part 2

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Oh yes. Really horrible. Tali is much more neutral on things and also more intelligent.
    I had watched one or two of Tali's WoW videos on YouTube so I tried watching one his streams. It was just painful. He looked like he was on the edge of crying and was sucking on some serious copium. Some of my favourite points he made:
    • Bobby Kotick is a great CEO - despite laying off staff so he can get larger bonuses
    • If you un-sub from WoW you are punishing female writers by not playing through the stories they wrote
    • Rabbit girls in FFXIV are sexist

    If that's your bar for intelligence, then hey man, all the best to you. But he is WoW-shill incarnate. He will defend the state of the game and Blizzard no matter how bad it gets because he makes his living by doing so.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    To be perfectly honest WarCraft lore and story was always bad, cringe and illogical. It didn't really start with tbc, cata, WoD, BfA and not SL. Problem is that they they kinda knew it and were well aware its thrash and so they did not push it that hard under spotlight like they started doing once they somehow came to conclusion that sht they are doing is worth exposing.
    Besides such story narrative style (global scale wold ending threats) should have no place in MMO anyway imho.
    Let's be honest here. Cata is in many ways the high water mark for WoW expansion plotlines. Deathwing acted like one would expect, his allies were defeated in sensible ways, noone made drastic out of character decisions, and the pacing was perfectly reasonable in that we started by defeating Deathwings allies, lieutenants or others that took advantage in the mayhem before finding a run of the mill macguffin to defeat him.
    The only real mark against it was the overreliance on Thrall, otherwise the plot had no real egregious leaps of logic, neither in plot or character.

    And if Cata is the peak of writing, then really the writing was never that special. Mostly it trundles along on its camp value and over the top spectacles.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I agree entirely that the worst thing about Shadowlands is the premise. The moment it became canon it already did the worst of the damage it was going to do by fucking over death. It is fundamentally, conceptually bad irrespective of any execution purely by removing death as the capstone of any character and instead adding an addendum to it.

    BFA on the other hand as you say had among the best premises they've ever done only to completely ruin not just the premise but every single other aspect it touched, torching all remaining plot threads and turning the factions into indistinguishable grey goo. BFA did its damage in escalating order from its pre-release book BTS onwards, becoming worse and worse with every predictable, inevitable turn of the plot.
    They should have never touched (that is not adding these spheres at all, in the first place) things like alternative universe, alternative timeline or recent afterlife. That's just asking for trouble with any further story they might go for.

    WoW had cool settings in terms of world, races, some characters, minor stories. But whole aspect of its cosmology, time travel and now afterlife is just trash. Afterlife while it was under the veil of unknown and speculation was good as well, but once presented in its full... shape.... meh and I personally don't like any part of it.

  20. #120
    The whole afterlife plot was doomed from start anyway.

    On another note, we almost got rid of asmongold and his chimps, plz let him go.

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