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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Transfered this from the other post here, cos I think it made a lot of sense:


    Very interesting, I would like this version of events too.. you should post this in the other topic i made.

    At the end you just want the Suramar still playing key positive role for the Darnassians as it is a core part of the race's lore - so you want them positively involved with it.

    I don't see why this shouldn't be possible, - all the connections are there, it's the history of the place, and all the interactions in 7.0 with night elves still happened, it's just a matter of continuing to write what later happened with the nightborne interacting with night elves and add more Darnassians into it - showing that side. it doesn't have to involve faction conflict, i don't see why the "alliance" needs to be involved,.. just the kaldorei.

    I would even have Malfurion visit his hold home and actually comment on now this the return to balance he sought for his people and embarked on from this city for this city that led him to druidism in the first place and is glad to find the balance of the arcan'dor the heart of Suramar, rather than addiction. And then show a little convo with Lyl'leth, Thalyssra, Farodin and Night eyes or something.

    Even show some new Valewalker nightborne balance druids willing to learn everything about balancing between nature and arcane to keep their people free from the curse that arcane addiction nearly destroyed and to explore the power of the wilds which is in their blood.

    I think it would be a nice touch, even show some blood elf botanists very interested and open.

    Doesn't have to have the Darnassians move into Suramar or anything liek that, they can have their new night elf city on hyjal or Eldre'thalas or wherever etc, just that Suramar can be reconnect with it's night elven history and former citizens strongly without joining their faction. They can still have lots of things going on .

    I like it, it doesn't all have to be about faction this faction that. if high elves and draenei can hang out in the Sunwell plateau, I think it' sore appropriate that Darnassians who came from Suramar are free to visit there and positive relations happen.

    they should do this.
    @Tanaria - this is one proposal from him I can get fully on board with. Note how it doesn't involve alliance taking anything from the horde, or the horde losing anything we've been given. If he'd suggest things more like this we'd probably had agreed with him a lot more
    I'm glad you are finally agreeing with something I said, but you horde fans constantly misunderstand me because of my insistence on alliance buffs when they cost you elven stuff.

    I don't suggest these things because i want to deprive you or hate you, it's usually based on principle or addressing something i feel blizzard did wrong with something that would have been better.. just that my version means what nice thing that shoudl have gone to the alliance but was unfairly given to the horde is taken away from it and put back on the alliance

    I often see you guys object to it for no other reason than because the horde loses it, nothing to do with any of the points and reasons why said alliance races must remain on the alliance, you just don't want the horde to lose elf stuff.

    It has never been the only way, just like in this case... You, and especially Tanaria fail to make suggestions that actually give night elf fans what they want for Suramar and the borekn isles... the annoying thing is that he is always oblivious in his counter suggestions to what alliance fans are grieving about, as if only horde fan opinions on night elf assets is relevant.

    how can he say that, when Suramar, the Nightborne are night elf lore and so key and central, how can you try to keep completely separating and alienating it from night elf fans and expect us to be okay because the Nightborne went horde.. the grievance is still there until blizzard did something.

    I'm glad you see that there are things
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    SNIP
    I just don't like anyone stereotyping the Horde into just being a bunch of dirt dwelling, mud-hut living people. I also don't want the races being stereotyped from other films (like LOTR) and having to follow that path because it gives nothing for the Horde races, except racist stereotypes, whilst Alliance races have freedoms to be what they like and have extra stuff to boot.

    Blood Elves and Nightborne live in their cities as Horde races and an updated Silvermoon, with Blood Gems and an emphasis on Blood and Fire Magic, as well as the new era of Blood Knights and Farstriders, would illustrate that residents of Quel'Thalas have distanced themselves from their High Elf past.
    Nightborne should still have their "Arcane" path showcased, but maybe new portals to showcase their telemancy expertise. I'd also say a small section for Nightborne Warlocks, to show that these Nightborne have moved away from their night elf past and that Suramar City is entering a new era of magic.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-08-15 at 10:15 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I just don't like anyone stereotyping the Horde into just being a bunch of dirt dwelling, mud-hut living people. I also don't want the races being stereotyped from other films (like LOTR) and having to follow that path because it gives nothing for the Horde races, except racist stereotypes, whilst Alliance races have freedoms to be what they like and have extra stuff to boot.

    Blood Elves and Nightborne live in their cities as Horde races and an updated Silvermoon, with Blood Gems and an emphasis on Blood and Fire Magic, as well as the new era of Blood Knights and Farstriders, would illustrate that residents of Quel'Thalas have distanced themselves from their High Elf past.
    Nightborne should still have their "Arcane" path showcased, but maybe new portals to showcase their telemancy expertise. I'd also say a small section for Nightborne Warlocks, to show that these Nightborne have moved away from their night elf past and that Suramar City is entering a new era of magic.
    If something is pretty evident, is how the Horde Elves are framed as the "high arcane" ones; both of their cultures are based on the apex of magical civilization. And it bothers me to no end how some "night elf fans" keep pushing the issue that Night Elves should be the "true" inheritors of their arcane expetionalist past, to the point of reclaiming Suramar, completely dismissing the last 10k years of story.

    All the "high classical arcane imperial" fantasy of the Night Elves is *backstory*, it was never who they were to us, so it's really tiring that some people truly wish to push away everything Night Elves have been since we were introduced to them and focus on their backstory as their present.

    I have *MANY* Issues with the current Night Elf story and Elune, but the potential of Tyrande wielding the primal power of Elune into the future, and the potential of all Night Elves being able to do so in some manner, is very exciting, and far more in line with what they have always been.

    Leave the "magical/arcane" stereoptype to Blood Elves and Nightborne, I'd much rather have the Night Elves and Void Elves focus on the "primal and cosmic" aspects of power.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    If something is pretty evident, is how the Horde Elves are framed as the "high arcane" ones; both of their cultures are based on the apex of magical civilization. And it bothers me to no end how some "night elf fans" keep pushing the issue that Night Elves should be the "true" inheritors of their arcane expetionalist past, to the point of reclaiming Suramar, completely dismissing the last 10k years of story.

    All the "high classical arcane imperial" fantasy of the Night Elves is *backstory*, it was never who they were to us, so it's really tiring that some people truly wish to push away everything Night Elves have been since we were introduced to them and focus on their backstory as their present.

    I have *MANY* Issues with the current Night Elf story and Elune, but the potential of Tyrande wielding the primal power of Elune into the future, and the potential of all Night Elves being able to do so in some manner, is very exciting, and far more in line with what they have always been.

    Leave the "magical/arcane" stereoptype to Blood Elves and Nightborne, I'd much rather have the Night Elves and Void Elves focus on the "primal and cosmic" aspects of power.
    This is somewhat my issue as well. I mean, people have said that "Oh night elves must be the main race when it comes to Druids and Demon Hunters" but when I fairly point out, that maybe Blood Elves and Humans should be the main race for Mages, suddenly, it's a "No, Night Elves make the best Mages with stars and arcane! Probably better than Blood Elves and Humans!"

    It's like, every class has to be about Night Elves. I love the Night Elf race, but the fans - they leave a lot to be desired.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    This is somewhat my issue as well. I mean, people have said that "Oh night elves must be the main race when it comes to Druids and Demon Hunters" but when I fairly point out, that maybe Blood Elves and Humans should be the main race for Mages, suddenly, it's a "No, Night Elves make the best Mages with stars and arcane! Probably better than Blood Elves and Humans!"

    It's like, every class has to be about Night Elves. I love the Night Elf race, but the fans - they leave a lot to be desired.
    Don't wanna be all "Not all Night Elf fans" but I'm gonna be a bit of it nonetheless lol. Indeed there are certain people that we are all aware of that keep pushing for this sort of NE classicalism, back to the imperial age with all its arcane glory and all, but yeah, they are just a subsection of the NE playerbase. And I'm not even saying they are not "true NE fans", is just that their opinions simply do not represent all of the NE playerbase, evidently.

    And while they are very vocal, is just not on anyone's best interests to generalize other groups by their individual's worst examples.

    Like keep on asking for Suramar as it was intrinsically Night Elf lore... it isn't. It's Night Elf backstory. It's far from central from what Night Elves are NOW, and it utterly vexes me that some NE fans keep pushing the idea that Suramar and the NB "belong" to the Night Elves. It's the same egotist logic that claims Blood Elves and High Elves are the same, but with 10k more years of separation.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Don't wanna be all "Not all Night Elf fans" but I'm gonna be a bit of it nonetheless lol. Indeed there are certain people that we are all aware of that keep pushing for this sort of NE classicalism, back to the imperial age with all its arcane glory and all, but yeah, they are just a subsection of the NE playerbase. And I'm not even saying they are not "true NE fans", is just that their opinions simply do not represent all of the NE playerbase, evidently.

    And while they are very vocal, is just not on anyone's best interests to generalize other groups by their individual's worst examples.

    Like keep on asking for Suramar as it was intrinsically Night Elf lore... it isn't. It's Night Elf backstory. It's far from central from what Night Elves are NOW, and it utterly vexes me that some NE fans keep pushing the idea that Suramar and the NB "belong" to the Night Elves. It's the same egotist logic that claims Blood Elves and High Elves are the same, but with 10k more years of separation.
    Some fans are just extremely hung on the idea of what the Night Elves had 10,000 years ago.

    And I just don't like how these select fans want their race to be great and all mighty and powerful, but to see Blood Elves and Nightborne go through exactly what they've gone through and expect their respective fanbases to just accept it. I accept that Blood Elves aren't the best at everything. They might be decent Warlocks, but Orcs and Eredar would still make mince-meat out of them.
    But the idea that the Horde must be stereotyped as the "bad boy" "evil-like" faction and they can't deviate from that, whilst the Alliance faction is this deeply diverse yet extremely powerful unity with room to become something else...no, I don't agree with that.

    Also saying things like "Horde Forsaken can move to Icecrown and have Minas Morgul-like architecture. Think. It's so cool and Lordaeron can go Alliance with Lightforged Draenei having "New Auchindoun" in Dalaran's Crater and Lordaeron restored with Calia as Queen."
    Oh sure, how about we just make a new character called the "Witch King" and he comes from a new land founded West of Icecrown, called "Angmar" and he becomes the new Forsaken leader and whilst we're at it, shall we change Icecrown Citadel's music to this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H5Cq4_gov8

    It's just pure laziness because these few night elf fans only care about what they want and to hell with everyone else. They just think "throw LOTR" like things at the Horde and they'll like it.

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