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  1. #81
    I think there are solutions to all of the problems mentioned in the thread and some of them are already in game.

    I understand that some people want to have better gear for their achievements and Blizzard wants us to have some kind of progress but at the same the most balanced and fun PvP is when the gear doesn't matter. And solution to this problem is simple and it's already in-game. That's gear scaling in PvP (but even in more drastic way).

    My example of what I think it should be:
    (Non-PvP ilvl -> current PvP ilvl -> my suggestion PvP ilvl)
    Honor gear
    177 -> 213 -> 233 (base)
    184 -> 216 -> 235
    190 -> 220 -> 237
    197 -> 223 -> 239
    203 -> 226 -> 241
    210 -> 229 -> 243
    216 -> 233 -> 246 (last upgrade)

    Conquest gear
    220 -> 233 -> 246 (unrated)
    226 -> 239 -> 249 (1000)
    229 -> 242 -> 251 (1200)
    233 -> 246 -> 253 (1400)
    236 -> 249 -> 255 (1600)
    239 -> 252 -> 257 (1800)
    242 -> 255 -> 257 (1950)
    246 -> 259 -> 259 (2100)
    249 -> 259 -> 259 (2400)

    This way it wouldn't affect PvE, there would still be gear progression but the differences would be a lot less significant. The difference between entry level honor gear and BiS gear would be 26 ilvls instead of 46, for full upgraded honor and unrated conquest gear would be 13 instead of 26. What's also worth mentioning is that 1000 rating (that anyone can get with just playing PvP with no skill required) would give 249 gear that is only 10 ilvl below Duelist/Gladiator gear. While 10 ilvl still makes a difference, it's not a difference that makes you get one-shot or overwhelmed by just a pure gear difference.

    The second part of the problem is all the stuff we were forced to do to have our character grow in power that aren't fun - weekly Torghast, assaults, renown weeklies, gated story quests, farming conduits, farming sockets. Solution to this is simple, Blizzard shouldn't connect any character power to weekly/daily chores. We shouldn't feel like we are loosing something because we didn't log for two days and we shouldn't be forced to do content we don't like to do things that we do like. In worst case scenario it should be at least farmable without being gated (like Soul Ashes or Renown right now).

  2. #82
    The fact that there is a 46 fucking iLevel difference between entry level PvP gear and Top end gear is fucking INSANE. Thats a ~33% stat difference. And considering that some stats compound one another, its realistically ~50% difference in power.

    Holy shitjinkies that is terrible.

  3. #83
    cata-wod gearing system or templates with stat customization are the two best ways to do gear in PvP.

  4. #84
    It's weird I consider retail to have a really good gearing system.

    I can go to arenas and play for an hour and buy a piece of gear Conquest gear and if I continue playing I'll get the honor required to upgrade it and buy another piece shortly after. Sure, weapons might take closer to 3 hours, and the big pieces might be about 2 hours, but still you could do arenas for 2 hours a day and get the best PvP gear in every slot. Then you just need to increase your rating to upgrade it.

    Would it be better if arenas were equalized? Yeah, of course. Would it be better if PvP gear scaled up in arenas more and you didn't need to upgrade them with honor? Yeah, of course.

    But honestly the system we have no really isn't bad. It sucked when you got 15 conquest from an arena match since it took forever, but now that you get 3x that it's really pretty fast to gear up.

    This does, however, assume you're both decent at PvP and have teammates to play with. I imagine pugging arenas with no gear wouldn't go very well at all.

  5. #85
    The gearing system isn't bad if you play one character only, you're quite above average skill wise and you have friends in similar situations to play arenas with. If you're a casual PvPer you're having a terrible time, if you play alts you're having a terrible time, if you're not that good at the game you're having a terrible time, if you're a returning player (so starting behind with gear) you're having a terrible time.

    It's not just "ohh yea it's a bit shit". It's horrible gameplay experience if you're not that 1 type of player who I described earlier and it doesn't have to be that way. The fixes are so simple and a system that worked in the past has existed.

    Playing BGs is about which team has more twinks now. "Oh they have 3 fully geared people and we got a bunch of casuals with 40-50k hp, might as well lose quick" You're 99% not going to win and will have a terrible time getting one shotted because they got more gear.

    And also I hate playing BGs or skirms on my main who's 2.1k geared. There's no satisfaction for me if we're winning at all, it's literally twinking but at max level. I look at their team and they just flop 'cause I have more gear, how is that any fun? It doesn't feel rewarding beating anyone unless the playing field is even, we've gone back to vanilla basically with this crap. Hell TBC gearing is probably better right now.
    Man often meets his destiny, on the path he takes to avoid it.

  6. #86
    Can totally relate to that, man

  7. #87
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
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    Gonna ask for a confirmation here to not create a thread just for it.

    Since WoD I barely played normal BGs / Skirmishes so my honor level was 18-23 for a long time. Now I PvPed as much as I did back in the day for a week and reached honor level 30 and got full pvp gear really fast. To my surprise there is brackets for unranked pvp now I wasn't aware of? Skirmishes for example, everyone is honor level 300+, almost 60k hp and duelists++. Guess I won't ever do unrated PvP ever again.

  8. #88
    TEMPLATES EXISTED and the PVP COMMUNITY DECLINED it.

    Challenge modes and mage tower for its target content patch were never liked for the same reason.

    I dont even think its the community to blame that they want overtime gearprogression to ROFLstopm casual noobs in PVP.

    The issue is just that casual noobs are those who exploit in PVP without any regrets.

    I dont really like to gear up every season just to have some balanced games for a little bit of PVP time, but I rather have it this way, as letting some noobs destroy the fun for everyone, just because it takes no time to catch up after banned accounts.
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  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    Gonna ask for a confirmation here to not create a thread just for it.

    Since WoD I barely played normal BGs / Skirmishes so my honor level was 18-23 for a long time. Now I PvPed as much as I did back in the day for a week and reached honor level 30 and got full pvp gear really fast. To my surprise there is brackets for unranked pvp now I wasn't aware of? Skirmishes for example, everyone is honor level 300+, almost 60k hp and duelists++. Guess I won't ever do unrated PvP ever again.
    Skirmishes and random bgs don't have any brackets or matchmaking, it's 100% random who you play against. One game you can play Vs someone in questing greens, next one you can play vs bis geared gladiator.

    If you have decent starting PvP gear (which at this point of season would be something in the ballpark of full unranked conquest set) you'd better queue up for some 2v2 where you should mostly play against other people with crap gear (and if your MMR is too high, then you will drop low enough to eventually face players with similar gear/skill).

    Then just get enough rating to upgrade your gear (which now starts at 1200 rating or something? Low enough for anyone to be able to reach it). After you upgrade your gear you keep on pushing next rank and upgrading gear after reaching next bracket.

    Gearing system is pretty good right, you can get very decent gear and elite transmog set at 1800 which is low enough for anyone to get, provided you put in some effort. Going above 1800 though will require more work, some reading up on comps, strategies and finding a decent partner. If you get to 2100 your PvP gearing progression is over and after that it's all about skill.

  10. #90
    Banned Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    They did PVP scaling in BfA where stats mattered but ilvl barely, people hated it.
    Scaling was broken af in BfA...


  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Templates still advantaged people who did do the grind, though. People seem to not recall that templates still scaled up with your gear, just not quite as hard as it normally did.

    If they existed in Legion, there'd still be quite a damage/healing/hp disparity between a 'template' with 220 ilvl, versus one with 240.
    In Legion 10 Gs meant 1% stat difference so in your example it would be 2% more heal/more damage which is still more balanced then any other systems we had after that.

  12. #92
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Skirmishes and random bgs don't have any brackets or matchmaking, it's 100% random who you play against. One game you can play Vs someone in questing greens, next one you can play vs bis geared gladiator.

    If you have decent starting PvP gear (which at this point of season would be something in the ballpark of full unranked conquest set) you'd better queue up for some 2v2 where you should mostly play against other people with crap gear (and if your MMR is too high, then you will drop low enough to eventually face players with similar gear/skill).

    Then just get enough rating to upgrade your gear (which now starts at 1200 rating or something? Low enough for anyone to be able to reach it). After you upgrade your gear you keep on pushing next rank and upgrading gear after reaching next bracket.

    Gearing system is pretty good right, you can get very decent gear and elite transmog set at 1800 which is low enough for anyone to get, provided you put in some effort. Going above 1800 though will require more work, some reading up on comps, strategies and finding a decent partner. If you get to 2100 your PvP gearing progression is over and after that it's all about skill.
    I have spent the last week doing rated 2s, skirmishes and battlegrounds. Until honor level 29 you only play unranked with people from 0-29, as soon as you hit honor 30 you are only matched with people 30-500 and while you can get people with low gear, it's really rare, it's 90% people who do PvP a lot and are insanely geared, duelist gear at minimun not challenger or combatant.

    Go for a random BG, see everyone's honor level, it's either all 0-29 or all 30+ depending on yours.
    Last edited by Sugho; 2021-12-06 at 02:37 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    I have spent the last week doing rated 2s, skirmishes and battlegrounds. Until honor level 29 you only play unranked with people from 0-29, as soon as you hit honor 30 you are only matched with people 30-500 and while you can get people with low gear, it's really rare, it's 90% people who do PvP a lot and are insanely geared, duelist gear at minimun not challenger or combatant.

    Go for a random BG, see everyone's honor level, it's either all 0-29 or all 30+ depending on yours.
    Honor level is meaningless, I don't know what you are talking about. If you want to measure someone's skill, go on check-pvp or any other PvP tracking site and see their rated xp.

    I've seen gladiator xp players with less than 100 honor level and I've seen complete noobs with 300+. It only measures how much time you've spent in bgs, nothing else.

    Also it's account wide, so when I log on my freshly levelled druid that I have zero experience on, it still shows 350 honor level. Nobody sane judges other players by this metric.

  14. #94
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Honor level is meaningless, I don't know what you are talking about. If you want to measure someone's skill, go on check-pvp or any other PvP tracking site and see their rated xp.

    I've seen gladiator xp players with less than 100 honor level and I've seen complete noobs with 300+. It only measures how much time you've spent in bgs, nothing else.

    Also it's account wide, so when I log on my freshly levelled druid that I have zero experience on, it still shows 350 honor level. Nobody sane judges other players by this metric.

    I'd hope for someone else to reply to me because you don't seem to understand what I am saying. I am not talking about the meaning or the experience someone has, I know it's account wide, just stating the fact that there are 2 different brackets in random battlegrounds / skirmishes I wasn't aware of.

    Did you try what I said? Do a random battleground or skirmish, I assume you are 30+ honor level, and confirm there's no one below 30 in that BG, it's a different queue. It's like until you reach 30, Blizzard puts you on the "easy mode" side where there's a much lower chance of playing more experienced people.

  15. #95
    I'm casual AF I often don't login cause more interesting things IRL.
    I been back for 3months (stopped end CATA)
    I have PvP'd in a BG ONCE since being back and I (along with the team) was being farmed by a DH.
    Fool me once...
    Never again.

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