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  1. #101
    Which is one of the things that turns a lot of people off from pvp. Hard to get into good, fair competition when you're up against people who are rewarded with superior stats often just for playing more.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Htryrt5 View Post
    Which is one of the things that turns a lot of people off from pvp. Hard to get into good, fair competition when you're up against people who are rewarded with superior stats often just for playing more.
    I would argue wow people never was about fair competition. The game doesn't lean itself towards it.

  3. #103
    i agree with your sentiment, but the template solution is just bad.
    Shadowlands has shit the bed when it came to adding pointless grind though.

    I don't mind having to spend 2-3 hours a week, keeping my character up to date. The problem is the daily format, where in order to be "competitive" you need to grind out your maw dailies (takes an hour or so) then farm up your renown (takes another hour or two) then cap your weekly chest with 10 max level mythic+ runs (thats gonna take a few hours x.x) add capping out soul ash by running two torghast wings every week (how many hours? x.x) raids to get your bis conduits (there goes 2-3 evenings)

    Now find a pvp partner/team that is as deranged as yourself, to do all that preparation.

    you can now start to pvp.

    The problem is the dailies, that prevent you from offloading the "boring" jobs to the weekend or when you have more time. And the amount of busywork blizzard is making you do to get your power spikes.
    Last edited by Kaykay; 2021-12-20 at 01:35 PM.

  4. #104
    Exactly my play time is about 4-5 hours a week, and when I am playing PvP I am constantly lagging behind with gear. I just want to log in and just play a few matches and not get 1 shotted not 10h preparation for one 1h of PVP every week.

  5. #105
    instanced pvp should be hard separated into brackets depending on what gear you have (and cant change gear in instanced pvp).
    So you cant have ilvl 300 people in the same bracket as ilvl260.

    imho there should be zero difference in power level in pvp and all should come down to what choices you make (talents, secondary stat focus etc).
    LoLegends used to have an awful rune system that made huge differences in power (especially early game which matters the most) depending on how much you grinded but thankfully they got rid of it.

    Also there should be NO PVE content required to do instanced PVP (aside from reaching max level).
    All these conduits and other SLands awful systems should never affect instanced PVP.
    Instanced PVP should be as pure as MKombat or Tekken - pure skill, none of the artificial grind garbage.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by CarloSmitHolm View Post
    The current design is so outdated because you cant ever have a fair fight unless you spend all your waking hours of the day grinding gear just to stay even with everyone else.
    Basically, WoW shouldn't have pvp gear at all. I can understand the need for the earlier years of the game, but with the
    current technology, there is just no need for it anymore.

    PvP games should all scale players to the same item level, and make it about the objective. Where teamwork is paramount
    in terms of winning.

    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    No thanks. The game is about character/power progression before anything else.
    For PvE. The game has an "advantage" over the player initially until you acquire better gear and power,
    and then you're able to level the playing field. This does not translate to PvP.
    Last edited by ThatsOurEric; 2021-12-20 at 10:14 PM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by CarloSmitHolm View Post
    I wish they would create a grindless version of PVP.
    Quote Originally Posted by CarloSmitHolm View Post
    It would literally be the most popular PC game of all time if they did this
    Yeah, a standalone WoW Arena PvP game is the dream, but I doubt it would bring in massive cash. What it would bring in though is massive goodwill and PR.

    Even if wasn't a big breadwinner it also wouldn't require that big of a team to maintain it once initially developed. The game just needs regular tuning and some more infrequent design updates a couple of times a year (and they have many historical WoW metas to use as "throwback seasons" while working on new content). It's not like they need to create massive amounts of content, as in PvE, just like... a new brawl/BG/arena map every year or something would easily suffice.

    WoW is in maintenance mode and PvP has been an extremely low priority ever since sometime around WoD. One of the main issues with PvP in WoW, beyond all the systems (gear being one of them), is that in this maintenance mode classes are designed with a "PvE first" mindset so actually getting in good changes that make classes suited for PvP is hard (like, the most you'll see is a good PvP talent - which never gets picked anyway because you can only have 3). That's why WoW PvP needs to be a standalone game.
    Quote Originally Posted by CarloSmitHolm View Post
    Theres no point in having gear levels in the quick mode. Just have every class equal item lvl and have the game designers balance the classes after that. I would like to jump on a rogue and have a difficult battle with a paladin. Or get on a frost mage and fight with my skills and not die because of my item lvl.
    The problem is that WoW is an MMORPG and there are a lot of people who really, really, really like to farm gear and kill people who have not been able to put in the same amount of time. To some extent I can even agree that there should be some gear progress in WoW PvP. What's important is how much progress, and what type of gear progress. There needs to be a balance. That balance is not a ~100 ilvl difference and 2 months of efferts between someone who's in 55 leveling greens and someone who's top geared.

    I think WoD was the closest we ever got to perfect. There were PvP ilvls which made PvP gear better than PvE (in 99% of cases, and when it wasn't specific nerfs could be applied), and there were 4 gear levels:
    - Minimum ilvl scaling: Everyone was scaled up to a certain ilvl in instanced PvP, regardless of how bad your gear was.
    - Aspirant gear: Green PvP gear which dropped basically all the time, you got this set almost instantly in Ashran.
    - Honor gear: This was incredibly easy to farm and if you knew what you were doing you could hash out a full set in just a few hours of Ashran. There were no upgrades.
    - Conquest gear: There were no upgrades and higher rating gave more currency it so you got the gear faster (so better player were a bit more powerful, but only for a while) and ontop of that there was a powerful catchup mechanic which allowed you to get 1000 Conquest for each week that you missed.

    Just go back to that and I think we'd be good, also - the borrowed power systems need to be fully skippable or possible to unlock in a cheap manner via PvP.
    Last edited by RelaZ; 2022-01-02 at 11:29 PM.

  8. #108
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    This whole thread is about why twinking communities exist.
    The most persecuted minority is the individual.

  9. #109
    I played a pay 2 win game released in 2007, where you had to buy all mounts with real money, quests basically stopped after level 30 and you had to grind to 50 in a PvP zone for days, some classes were not even able to level alone at all without taking a 30 sec break after each mob and you only had like 10 abilities in tab target combat and huge cooldowns. And even this shitty game had better PvP than WoW.
    What did it have?
    - No Arenas
    - No instanced PvP
    - A big warzone
    - 3 factions
    - The possibility to attack the enemy's realm after capturing their fortresses and stealing their jewels to summon a dragon that gives buffs to all players of the winning faction
    - A good system for balancing factions
    - An incentive for players to play together in PvP rather than ganking lowbies

    I loved the PvP in that game. WoW's PvP is nothing in comparison. It's all pop CDs and win or wait 2 minutes for CDs to get back up. And it's designed for 3vs3 Arenas. Which is a shame for any MMO.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2022-01-10 at 12:19 AM.

  10. #110
    Not to mention you might be 1 covenant for pve and another is best for pvp (I know you can swap) but you still have to complete then both of those covenants..

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