WoW pvp is the best pvp ever created. But I can't pvp unless I grind 12 hours a day.

[LedZeppelin]

There are two ways to get the best gear. Be a top 0.1% or buy a boost from the 0.1%

This two groups of people should be allowed to stomp on people by quing in lower rating brackets and stop player to earn their gear the normal way ?

Makes sense. You never played pvp over random bgs, didnt you?

I had the best pvp gear in the game pre 9.1. I loved playing random bgs. I agree that arena boosting is killing it. I was speaking more of random bgs.

[evertonbelmontt]

participation is down like 70% this season because gear isn't as good for PvE. https://luduslabs.org/sotl/season-2-begins


This tells you a lot about the constraints of pvp design in this game. If you design a no-gear, no-growth approach, no one actually plays it.

Since it is not required for raiding like in season 1, I did not do it. In S1 I got to 2100 and quit. Only wanted the trinkets and some good gear for prog.

I will, however, do pvp later in the season to get the transmog set when progression is over for me (not only raiding, but lots of things to do atm in game).

[ek0zu]

I agree 100%, when i firstly played the game so many years ago and i was a young padawan the game made me fal in love with it when i PvPed NON STOP without caring AT ALL about lvling in Stranglethorn Vale for DAYS.

It was not my first game but it was surely the game that fitted what i liked the most. This is what i want from a game developer, to introduce me to something new that i will play and enjoy it non stop.

I am sure that i am not the only one that played the game solely because the way the game plays, i tried all other games MMOs and RPGs and none comes close to what is the essence of WoW's PvP. I am not talking about Arenas BTW, which are fine but the essence of WoWs PvP is way way more!

It was months until i firstly did my first ZG or MC or Onyxia run, i was not a seasoned EQ or Diablo or Daoc or SWG player which knew all the ins and outs of how to built a character, progress into raids and dungeons and down one boss after the other, it was the insane things that you could do in the World that made me fall in love with this game.

[Itisamuh]

While I firmly believe that there should be no statistical differences between players in PvP, WoW would still be nowhere near the most popular game even if that happened.

[Steelangel]

Its just so frustrating because even when 10 Gs below the other team some games go on forever and are so close. And you just know, you should have won. If you had even gear it would have been maybe even a easy match, but the other team is able to compete with you only because of gear.

Been there. Was definitely there last night a couple of times. Losing by only a few points on Kotmogu or base cap matches hurts, and the fact that your rating suffers SO MUCH even though you put in so much effort is super disheartening. It doesn't help when you're up against 1565 rated teams that are all glad geared on their glad mounts and there's no possible way to win against them in teamfight and you know they're just toying with you.

[Athorha]

You can buy pretty much a full crafted set minus weapons and trinkets at 230ilvlfor like 5k/piece.

One reversible flaw was when they merged honor levels across all characters. Back in Legion before you prestiged for the first time you'd only solo queue with people who never prestiged. Now that can no longer be the case, so the moment you ding 60 you're with 800 honor level no life grinders. Id love if blizz separated the random bgs brackets by conquest earned that season. It wouldn't be a foolproof fix but at the very least if you start mid season it would be feasible to grind random bgs to slowly conquest / honor build without being something running around waiting to be one shot.

[korijenkins]

They tried templates years ago in Legion.

The loud PvP twits hated them because they couldn’t grind all the gears to kill noobs with.

Templates, however, we’re a godsend for people who had skill but no time to grind.

Uh no. Templates made it so nothing ever died and pvp was just two zergs endlessly fighting.

[Steelangel]

You can buy pretty much a full crafted set minus weapons and trinkets at 230ilvlfor like 5k/piece.

One reversible flaw was when they merged honor levels across all characters. Back in Legion before you prestiged for the first time you'd only solo queue with people who never prestiged. Now that can no longer be the case, so the moment you ding 60 you're with 800 honor level no life grinders. Id love if blizz separated the random bgs brackets by conquest earned that season. It wouldn't be a foolproof fix but at the very least if you start mid season it would be feasible to grind random bgs to slowly conquest / honor build without being something running around waiting to be one shot.

Although I like the "honor earned across account" change, I think for random BGs it would be sane to separate queues in some way. It really sucks to be on a team of fresh 60's when up against a team with 3-4 people with 2x your hit points.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh no. Templates made it so nothing ever died and pvp was just two zergs endlessly fighting.

As opposed to now where outside of burst windows most classes hit like wet noodles, and some classes can chain CC you, run halfway across the Arena, and self heal until their burst is up again while you're stuck unable to get in range to do anything?

I'd rather have the slogfest personally than whatever this season is.

[mbit]

Uh no. Templates made it so nothing ever died and pvp was just two zergs endlessly fighting.

You can put more hp/healing than dps on templates or gear. Literally doesnt matter if its templates or not.

[Alexplode]

They tried templates years ago in Legion.

The loud PvP twits hated them because they couldn’t grind all the gears to kill noobs with.

Templates, however, we’re a godsend for people who had skill but no time to grind.

God!!!! I miss so much legion templates. I was mad enfuriated when they removed the pvp templates. I miss legion ;(

It was sooooo alt friendly at you would still die fast at low ilvl but still it was mad fun lad!!!.. (Why am I writting in British?)

[docterfreeze]

As opposed to now where outside of burst windows most classes hit like wet noodles, and some classes can chain CC you, run halfway across the Arena, and self heal until their burst is up again while you're stuck unable to get in range to do anything?

I'd rather have the slogfest personally than whatever this season is.

God!!!! I miss so much legion templates. I was mad enfuriated when they removed the pvp templates. I miss legion ;(

It was sooooo alt friendly at you would still die fast at low ilvl but still it was mad fun lad!!!.. (Why am I writting in British?)

Yall got memory loss of pre-legion expansions? Of what a real PvP gearing system feels like? Of fun PvP without compromises?

[Nerovar]

There should be some degree of progression in PvP otherwise it feels bland and disconnected from the rest of the game's RPG aspects. The last 3 expansions simply missed the mark with all the added progression systems that created ridiculous imbalances and power disparities while making the barrier to entry higher and higher (and also making it much harder to stay "attuned" as PvP player without grinding stupid PvE content like Torghast).

Think about it. Realistically, all you had to do in WoD was get 10 weekly arena wins and you were pretty much good to go and could enjoy PvP without fear of falling behind and even if you failed to do your games for whatever reason you had a catch-up conquest cap.

[Linkedblade]

Why not have pvp with and without iLvl nornalization. That's how destiny is. And i thought that was a great system.

[Nerovar]

Why not have pvp with and without iLvl nornalization. That's how destiny is. And i thought that was a great system.

Because Blizzard has already ground the PvP playerbase into dust with the last 3 expansions. Splintering it further is pretty much the worst thing they could do.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

You can buy pretty much a full crafted set minus weapons and trinkets at 230ilvlfor like 5k/piece.

Those are unique-equipped. You can only wear one at a time.

[Yeorgaki]

My favorite thing ever is to jump on my Mage and push 30 buttons with my left hand, kicking ass while steering with my right hand. But I have a life so I literally cannot ever pvp again. I wish I could jump onto a wow PVP Bg at the end of my work day and fight a couple of rounds. I wish they would create a grindless version of PVP. Theres no point in having gear levels in the quick mode. Just have every class equal item lvl and have the game designers balance the classes after that. I would like to jump on a rogue and have a difficult battle with a paladin. Or get on a frost mage and fight with my skills and not die because of my item lvl. It would literally be the most popular PC game of all time if they did this and created it with wow 2.0. The current design is so outdated because you cant ever have a fair fight unless you spend all your waking hours of the day grinding gear just to stay even with everyone else. I find it very disappointing that Im a good pvp player and I cant even play the game because of the idiots who designed it that way.

You can literally get all your gear by playing 30 minutes a day or for 2-3 hours on two different days of the week... Not to mention gear isn't everything. You can still go into BGs or arena with last seasons gear mixed with a few pieces of current season gear and dominate. You can easily get 2k rating with full last season gear, heck many people can even get gladiator and beyond with blues. And what's this "jump on a rogue and have a difficult battle with a paladin"? Are you implying you want the characters instant max level with instant max gear too?

Also what's this about, "Or get on a frost mage and fight with my skills and not die because of my item lvl"? You realize you can have an item level 50 points above some people and they'd still kill you right? Therefore your item level that's 20 points below them is irrelevant because you'd still lose. Idk why you assume if you're item level was equal that you'd win. You'd still lose many 1v1s and just as many matches. Also would like to point out that you would hate the game, everyone in BGs would be destroying you that much more because they have better gear. Don't assume everyone you see in BGs is a pro with all the best gear, as they're usually farming arena ratings, Endgame content and mounts on their 10 different characters. That said, that would literally mean that you're dying to a bunch of other people who also have no gear, meaning you have no idea what you want because what you just claimed to want would likely make you quit. I mean sure, geared people do some BGs but it's usually not as common as you think, especially for the pros. Many have no time for that.

You may want to rethink what exactly it is that you want here and try again. Maybe 30 buttons with your left hand is a bit too much for you? Maybe a mouse with a few more buttons that you can turn into modifiers, reducing the 30 buttons on the left by A LOT! Maybe you need a new job so you can play more and get better? Maybe you barely play enough to even be that good, idk if you noticed but there's quite a few classes with white the list of abilities out there to learn, obviously you can't really be that good if you have no idea what the other class is about to do to you, when so they Silence? When do they Stun? When do they Vanish? Fly? Freeze? Nullify my ability, heal, become immune, are immune to silences and snares, how often for how long?

How good could you possibly think you are? Think about what I just said and then think about how much you'd actually hate if everyone you didn't even know how to counter had gear just as good as yours, because in a typical BG it's quite often just a bunch of casuals and newly leveled alts with a geared fellow or two showing up from time to time

[kenn9530]

My favorite thing ever is to jump on my Mage and push 30 buttons with my left hand, kicking ass while steering with my right hand. But I have a life so I literally cannot ever pvp again. I wish I could jump onto a wow PVP Bg at the end of my work day and fight a couple of rounds. I wish they would create a grindless version of PVP. Theres no point in having gear levels in the quick mode. Just have every class equal item lvl and have the game designers balance the classes after that. I would like to jump on a rogue and have a difficult battle with a paladin. Or get on a frost mage and fight with my skills and not die because of my item lvl. It would literally be the most popular PC game of all time if they did this and created it with wow 2.0. The current design is so outdated because you cant ever have a fair fight unless you spend all your waking hours of the day grinding gear just to stay even with everyone else. I find it very disappointing that Im a good pvp player and I cant even play the game because of the idiots who designed it that way.

WoW is not the best PvP ever created, it is average at best, SWTOR is far better than WoW since it actually takes into account actually playing the game properly.

[Faesroll]

12 hours a day to pvp, what are you on? you don't even have to play 12 hours per week to be competitive.

[Luxeley]

I agree with you 100% Of course, the counter-argument is that WOW is an MMORPG. MMO as in find 5-10man premade for BGs and pay $$$ for Arena and RBG carries to get decent gear. And RPG as in some unexplainable need to stick by the lore and design of the Warcraft original franchise, something from the freaking 90's. Wow possesses a golden opportunity with WOW pvp, something they've effectively squandered and botched for the last 10 years plus. The only real and true MMORPG element of WOW nowadays is the consistent hierarchy of players who play 10-12 hours a day and gain/ maintain a competitive edge. Every other aspect of the traditional MMORPG is pretty much gone from WOW.

[Crug]

What did I just read?

The truth.