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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    Shit like this and the Kael'thas re-voicing drive me up the wall
    Seperate issues with separate facts and circumstances that merit separate responses.

    Flynn at all material time protested his innocence and he is an outside contractor and the alleged acts were wholly unrelated to blizzard. This is just capitalism being capitalism, divesting yourself of a potentially toxic asset human cost be damned has nothing to do with cancel culture.

    King Sex pest not only was determined by blizzard to have acted inappropriately but his alleged (and I use alleged only in the legal sense here, I've seen no one relevant dispute they occurred) acts were against blizzard staff in and around the workplace. Removing npcs that exist solely to glorify him is virtue signalling in a sense but he has shown himself to be undeserving of said glory. Further, they are also materially unrelated to the narrative, unlike Kael.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Not really? Clearly you've never been a victim of sexual harassment, clearly you never watched your harasser get away with the crime they committed against you. These are not unfound claims, there's proof otherwise Afrasiabi wouldn't have been fired and there wouldn't be an investigation going to the courts.
    You should be fucking ashamed. How the fuck do you know if I have not been a victim of that?

    My post wasn't about that, if you actually read it properly you would read that I wrote minor things is fine. Want me to make an example? Like removing npcs or change names? Those are minor things.

    When you start to act like an adult I might contribute with more.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2021-08-02 at 11:03 AM.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  3. #23
    I do not care if they remove or change some NPC/items because it was a very recognizable and direct reference to someone who is involved in such accusations. With that said my only problem would be if they overreact as it's sadly happening in many other areas in western society and culture and in their pursuit for more diversity and representation end up sacrificing quality or changing parts of the game that don't really need to be changed.

    But to be honest, it's not like the game has been a beacon of quality in the past few years and the narratives are already on a bad place, so it's not like that overreaction could do much more damage.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  4. #24
    No issue with it at all, and to be fair most items and npc or npc´s are from past expansions so not a big chance i will ever use the item or meet the npc again.

  5. #25
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    I'm generally against such changes, as they feel knee-jerk and appeasing to a mob rather than being an earnest action of correction. Afrasiabi is more clear cut than usual, but going by past moves like this I don't see Blizzard actually caring so much as just making moves to minimize damage to their revenue. I personally don't mind the NPCs/items being in the game, as they're not celebrating their namesake's controversial actions, but rather his impact on the game. Changing them feels like revision of history, shoving dirt under the rug. I get why people want them gone, I really do, I just don't agree with it from an intellectual basis.

    Having said that, they're a minor element in the game as well as in my life, so it's not an issue of any sort to me, especially as they're not removed but rather renamed.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  6. #26
    I'm not generally for letting real life events influence and change in-game universes, but in the case where they only remove direct homages to someone who has without the shadow of a doubt sexually abused coworkers, I don't mind it.

    I do mind that they are trying to score points for it though, and didn't do it when he was let go because of it, or did something about the actual sexual abusing, but that's another topic.

  7. #27
    The lawsuit isn't about WoW so their response is completely out of order.

  8. #28
    Nope and don't really care to be honest ... I view this as a cry for attention .. "oh look we're doing something ... has no impact but it is something right?".

    At this point may as well just go ahead and rename everything named after real persons and leave it at that instead of updating everytime shit comes up about a person (real or not)
    Last edited by kranur; 2021-08-02 at 11:23 AM.

  9. #29
    I think most of this is just virtue signaling to quell any outrage within the team and or community, with little effect on the longterm.

    The belief that actual change will happen, outside of the most egregious occurrences of sexual harassment, is naive in my opinion.
    Because actual change would cost money and that's where Activision Blizzard absolutely draws the line.

    Hiring a company for a one time investigation, oh okay, sure.
    Paying women equal wages / salaries until the end of time?
    No fucking way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Flynn at all material time protested his innocence and he is an outside contractor and the alleged acts were wholly unrelated to blizzard. This is just capitalism being capitalism, divesting yourself of a potentially toxic asset human cost be damned has nothing to do with cancel culture.
    The just thing however would be to at the very least restore his role and put his original lines back into the game.
    However, even an apology from Blizzard is already too much.
    When i would cut ties with somebody that has been wrongfully accused, my moral compass tells me that i owe them an apology.

    Honestly, the argument "this is just capitalism" is also a terrible one, because women being paid less than male counterparts is also essentially just capitalism.
    Why do they get paid less?
    Because companies get away with it and thus earns them more money.

    In the same vein this wage gap completely unjustified, someone posting allegations on twitter (which has been case for Quinton Flynn) should not result in Blizzard completely severing ties with a contractor.
    This wasn't a case of "innocent until proven guilty", this was a case of "shoot first, ask later".
    When you cut ties with someone before even hard evidence has surfaced but simply act on baseless allegations alone, you don't get to talk about justice.

    Flynn even managed to get a restraining order placed on the person that accused him, that's how completely outlandish those acussations were.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-08-02 at 11:22 AM.

  10. #30
    Maybe I'd support them if they reinstated all of Kael'Thas' original dialogue recordings.

    They were so quick to act on an allegation that was never founded, ruined a mans reputation and probably caused him significant mental harm. All for what? so they can virtue signal that they care about sexual abuse?

    Anyone who think any of these companies give a shit about any of your causes have their heads so far up their own asses. Every idiot that bought into multi-national mega corporations like Apple, Amazon, Nike or even Activision-Blizzard saying black lives matter, changing their little pictures on social media for the gays, thinking they are on your side needs to realise they companies dont give a fuck about you. They'll say and do whatever makes them more money

  11. #31
    Petty pandering doesnt solve shit, first they have to get rid of war criminals that are Activision executives.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You should be fucking ashamed. How the fuck do you know if I have not been a victim of that?

    My post wasn't about that, if you actually read it properly you would read that I wrote minor things is fine. Want me to make an example? Like removing npcs or change names? Those are minor things.

    When you start to act like an adult I might contribute with more.
    Maybe you should start acting like an adult ANY reference to these people should be removed. They deserve nothing after what they did.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  13. #33
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exkimono View Post
    Removal of NPCs, renaming items because of real-world problems.
    Feasel pointing to actions to come.

    What are your thoughts about the current events?
    The changes we've seen made sense, and were not that severe. None of the changes has really had an influence on the world we live in, except for a few names changes out.

    Though, that in mind, with the Swifty case, who was deemed innocent, they need to rectify that.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2021-08-02 at 11:27 AM.
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  14. #34
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    It's one facet of the changes they're making in reaction to the lawsuit. It's a very minor token gesture that doesn't amount to much, but it's still the right thing to do.

    Obviously I'm still going to need to hear from employees within the company that things are actually changing for the better.


    I think if you're actually upset about the devs choo renaming some NPCs and items named after a guy who got fired for sexually harassing his coworkers, you need to reconsider your priorities.

  15. #35
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    They are not going through any change that actually matters to us. They are establishing a system that should have been in place since decades ago. And they are trying to establish a clan within the company while being paid for by the players and calling the players names for asking for return of that payment. If you think this kind of people will actually do anything that will satisfy players who pay for the game, then you are sorely mistaken.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Seperate issues with separate facts and circumstances that merit separate responses.

    Flynn at all material time protested his innocence and he is an outside contractor and the alleged acts were wholly unrelated to blizzard. This is just capitalism being capitalism, divesting yourself of a potentially toxic asset human cost be damned has nothing to do with cancel culture.

    King Sex pest not only was determined by blizzard to have acted inappropriately but his alleged (and I use alleged only in the legal sense here, I've seen no one relevant dispute they occurred) acts were against blizzard staff in and around the workplace. Removing npcs that exist solely to glorify him is virtue signalling in a sense but he has shown himself to be undeserving of said glory. Further, they are also materially unrelated to the narrative, unlike Kael.
    Would it not have been better to keep the npc so that we could go and /spit on him? Maybe turn that npc into drunkard vagrant who keeps begging for money when players approach? I think it could have been a better lesson.
    Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was the game that brought me into gaming. I was 17 years old then, I abhorred gaming before this game. From then on, I became a fan of Warcraft and Blizzard. To see it all go down the drain like this is truly sad for me. No king rules forever but at least some of them went down in history as real badasses. I hoped Blizzard and Warcraft would be one of them but it is no longer possible.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    WoW is a game, let it be a game. It's a fantasy world, so let it be a fantasy world.

    Minor things, sure who cares. But please don't let them go overboard with this.
    Yup. They should leave real life references out of the game. Especially references to characters of questionable character.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Cerilis's Avatar
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    I don't mind the npc and other name changes. If you ask me, references to real people shouldn't have been in the game world in the first place.

    Changes further than that might take it too far, but I can't really tell without knowing them.

    I think the /spit change is questionable. Looks like a knee-jerk reaction to me.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkimono View Post
    What are your thoughts about the current events?
    Pointless and futile, both from addressing the lawsuit and improving the game.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The just thing however would be to at the very least restore his role and put his original lines back into the game.
    However, even an apology from Blizzard is already too much.
    When i would cut ties with somebody that has been wrongfully accused, my moral compass tells me that i owe them an apology.
    Yes, I agree they should have restored the old VO, although an apology was never on the cards. This is why I said it is a separate issue that merits a separate response.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Honestly, the argument "this is just capitalism" is also a terrible one, because women being paid less than male counterparts is also essentially just capitalism.
    Why do they get paid less?
    Because companies get away with it and thus earns them more money.
    It's a great argument in the context of the post I was replying to, given you essentially just made my point for me. Blizzard dropped flynn because they thought it would on the whole result in them having more money. It wasn't some cancel culture woke conspiracy, corporate America (and the world more generally) has a long proud history of dropping people they think will damage the brand regardless of how proven the allegation is or whether the conduct was even that objectionable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    In the same vein this wage gap completely unjustified, someone posting allegations on twitter (which has been case for Quinton Flynn) should not result in Blizzard completely severing ties with a contractor.
    This wasn't a case of "innocent until proven guilty", this was a case of "shoot first, ask later".
    When you cut ties with someone before even hard evidence has surfaced but simply act on baseless allegations alone, you don't get to talk about justice.

    Flynn even managed to get a restraining order placed on the person that accused him, that's how completely outlandish those acussations were.
    Capitalism without regulation inevitably tends to exploitation. Contractor relations is one of the least regulated aspects of employment law so blizzard is free to divest itself of a contractor at any time for any reason, subject to contract (that would invariably in blizzards favor) and general rights law. Not protecting your employees from sex pests and allegedly protecting said sex pest is, however (thankfully) more heavily regulated which is, in part, why blizzard is presently, if I could use the technical term "in the shit".
    Again these are sperate issues that merit separate responses (without even going into that Kael is a narratively important character and the sex pest npc is a monument to self congratualtion)
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  20. #40
    Don't really care.

    People are hoping that the internal issues/culture being improved will lead to a better game, but i am doubtful. I think it likely will continue to be the same.

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