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  1. #141
    Brack sucked balls and was not a good president, however I doubt he's the cause of the misconduct. It either happened under him, or it happened before he got that position. He was not in the photograph in the Cosby Suite.

    More concerning is they canned this guy while keeping Stockton and McCree employed, two of the most obvious worst offenders.

    I expect more token moves to come. They aren't going to change anything, but a lot of the idiot consumers of their trash products will be duped into thinking they did.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Yes, but Ion talks to the players and is the main line of communication between developer teams and customers, much like GC took over that responsibility back in the day because no one else would do it.
    Ion clearly hates talking to players. But yes, I suppose he is the main line of communication, even if that line is vanishingly thin compared to back in the GC days.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I think he's something more than that. Blizzard has, for years now, been attempting to sell the idea that they are an aware and inclusive company and good place to work. Simply put, he messed up with hand-waving Afrasiabi instead of firing him right away. Brack is not a guy who did nothing wrong and needs to fall on his sword. His management of company founders and the elder group of guys who had been around nearly from the start was the best indication that there are rules for everyone and different rules for a few others.
    Didn't imply that. But the fact he was the top guy in Blizzard means also he was responsible of everything happened, even if he didn't partake or know.

    I want to see how deep this goes and what teams will be affected, without actually expecting anything.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  4. #144
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Brack sucked balls and was not a good president, however I doubt he's the cause of the misconduct. It either happened under him, or it happened before he got that position. He was not in the photograph in the Cosby Suite.

    More concerning is they canned this guy while keeping Stockton and McCree employed, two of the most obvious worst offenders.

    I expect more token moves to come. They aren't going to change anything, but a lot of the idiot consumers of their trash products will be duped into thinking they did.
    I think this is honestly the end of the token moves.

    Now comes the crackdown, the cover up, the player bans, and the union busting.
    WoW has Cancer. First you cut out the cancer (abusive devs), then you assign an aggressive treatment plan (major design rework) to save it.

    Or you just let it die because that's too expensive.

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  5. #145
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Ion clearly hates talking to players. But yes, I suppose he is the main line of communication, even if that line is vanishingly thin compared to back in the GC days.
    Yeah, he probably does hate it. At best, he's awkward and uncomfortable doing it. As an aside: Blizzard, despite all of its technology achievements puts these guys in front of an audience with large microphones that they hand around to each other. That doesn't help. Their in-house video stuff is abysmal. I'd be uncomfortable too.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  6. #146
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    People who have worked there for a long time =/= originals
    So who is "originals" then? Cause Samwise is still there, allen adham is still there, tom chilton is still there, are they not "originals" ?
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2021-08-03 at 07:01 PM.

  7. #147
    More importantly, who actually in their heart of heart cares?

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    uhm if you read my post I said my opinions on SL aside.... he leads a team that was named... thus he is a target as leader
    Who are you talking about specifically?

    Most of the head-honchos have left, and the main name (Afrasiabi) has been let go a couple of years ago. Some of the 'enablers' from random pics revealed are also long gone. The few remaining i'm not even sure they work at WoW, which is Ion's team, as you put it?

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    This almost certainly wasn't Brack's decision, he was asked to retire. Optics were too poor. Important to signal this is taken seriously, and leadership matters.

    Re Ion, it's fair to blame him for the overall direction of the game, as that's his responsibility. Every individual aspect that you dislike, perhaps not. Anyway, nobody accused Ion of playing grabass so that's a big derail.
    while Alex Afrasiabi was the only named person in the suit, they did have a further 10 'john does' to be named at a later date who were/are high level management etc as part of the suit, and obviously we don't know who they are but in time we might, so who's to say he didn't get a bit handsy earlier on in his career.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    So who is "originals" then? Cause Samwise is still there, allen adham is still there, tom chilton is still there, are they not "originals" ?
    Adham left and came back so wasn't around for a long time and probably isn't an issue in the suit, tom chilton was seen in many of the old photo's and in the different chatrooms, so it's fair to say he is involved somewhere, as for samwise, i haven't seen/heard about him for a long time now, while he may still be at the company he hasn't made much in the way of public appearances in a few years (that i can recall at least), and my impression of him is that he was a bit more of a reserved figure and wasn't that big on being the front and center of things.

    retired march 2013 RIP - returned january 2016, purely because paladins finally get Ashbringer!

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Yes, but Ion talks to the players and is the main line of communication between developer teams and customers, much like GC took over that responsibility back in the day because no one else would do it.
    To be fair, there wasn't much communication before the news broke, anyway.

    Gotta be real, you learn nowadays more over the game by browsing the twitter feed of some developers than from "official" sources, which tells you something about how much of chaos it must be behind the scenes when virtually no one can take a stance on anything but their pet issues in the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Again, I really do think the problem is consensus design. Everybody has a hand in the final design and you end up with a bunch of parts that don't add up to much. Which is a decent and valid description for the game today.
    Obviously but that's an issue not directly related to this issue.

    Ion keeps his mouth shut currently because the game's issues currently take a backseat at Blizzard and due to what's in front he surely knows better than to say anything.
    Haven't heard much from much anybody in a leading position at Blizzard, either.

  11. #151
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Haven't heard much from much anybody in a leading position at Blizzard, either.
    While a valid point the phrase "I can't comment on an ongoing investigation" is carrying a lot of water here. It's true: they should all shut up about this and talk only to the lawyers.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    while Alex Afrasiabi was the only named person in the suit, they did have a further 10 'john does' to be named at a later date who were/are high level management etc as part of the suit, and obviously we don't know who they are but in time we might, so who's to say he didn't get a bit handsy earlier on in his career.
    Nobody, but it's kind of a dick move to burn down a man's life because he may be one of 10 unnamed people.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Brack sucked balls and was not a good president, however I doubt he's the cause of the misconduct. It either happened under him, or it happened before he got that position. He was not in the photograph in the Cosby Suite.

    More concerning is they canned this guy while keeping Stockton and McCree employed, two of the most obvious worst offenders.

    I expect more token moves to come. They aren't going to change anything, but a lot of the idiot consumers of their trash products will be duped into thinking they did.
    They'll vanish quietly and all the others that could be problematic. Brack just has to go to show that something is changing, the others are going when it looks less obvious what is going on and in a manner that doesn't allow them to sue blizzard for defamation or something along those lines. Essentially like Afrasiabi.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
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  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    People are literally complaining that JAB's departure won't change the direction of WoW. In what way is that statement, in light of the internal issues that forced his resignation, not a direct insult to the people at Blizzard that suffered from harassment and discrimination?
    .
    You are trying so hard to create something out of thin air and it's exhausting. Go to twitter with that sort of BS. Just because somebody cares about a game that they have invested time and energy (and money!) into does not automatically mean they want to insult women who work for Blizzard gtfo with that irresponsible nonsense.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Yes, but Ion talks to the players and is the main line of communication between developer teams and customers, much like GC took over that responsibility back in the day because no one else would do it. To the simple minds that don't pay any attention to how things actually work in a large corporation, the messenger is CLEARLY the person who makes all decisions, has all responsibilities, etc. I'm not minimizing what Hazzikostas does as game director but it's been clear to me for a while now that his main job as game director isn't to design the game but to get the various departments on the same page compromising and doing whatever needs to be done to move forward.

    Again, I really do think the problem is consensus design. Everybody has a hand in the final design and you end up with a bunch of parts that don't add up to much. Which is a decent and valid description for the game today.

    All you need to do is look back at the flying kerfluffle at the start of Warlords and how paralyzed the development team was because they couldn't agree on what to do. So it went on for months and months. It's textbook.
    The WoW Game Director is a bit like the Defense Against the Dark Arts position at Hogwarts. Players want to hate that person. Players want to hate someone - and the game director is the most vocal, visible person players feel they can aim their pitchforks towards.

    The most amusing part, imo, is that if Ion was replaced - any new person who came in would only enjoy a short honeymoon period - because pitchforks would inevitably soonafter come out for them, too.

  16. #156
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    The WoW Game Director is a bit like the Defense Against the Dark Arts position at Hogwarts. Players want to hate that person. Players want to hate someone - and the game director is the most vocal, visible person players feel they can aim their pitchforks towards.

    The most amusing part, imo, is that if Ion was replaced - any new person who came in would only enjoy a short honeymoon period - because pitchforks would inevitably soonafter come out for them, too.
    Counter-Argument: Chilton was game director all the time GC was doing his thing. Chilton never said much of anything and people left him alone for the most part.

    I don't think the position matters. It's "shoot the messenger" logic writ large. I'll hasten to add you're not wrong but I think I have a slightly different perspective on it.

    And look at all the abuse that CM's took when they were communicative with WoW's players.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Yeah except Ion in Game Director, as in the person in charge of overseeing development of a video game.

    I dont really know why i say it since no one ever listen, but he is not making the decisions what direction story will take or what system to add, he might be part of the group that does it but there is not 1 single person making the decisions and have never been.

    But i know its easier to blame everything on just one guy, problem is, when that guy goes away nothing changes since the group making the decisions is still there.
    Ion talks like a boring robot... SL plays like a boring robot...

    I would be shocked if he did not have a huge influence in the current direction of the game. I seriously doubt he is sitting there thinking to himself "man, if only I had the power I would make this game way less grindy and way more about fun!".

    Brack going is a good thing, but nothing even begins to change until Ion is gone imo as far as game direction goes.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    More concerning is they canned this guy while keeping Stockton and McCree employed, two of the most obvious worst offenders.
    It's probably because J. was named in the lawsuit, while those two were not.

  19. #159
    Some of these "offenses" are pretty minor, too. Samwise reportedly had a pap smear poster up in his office, like from a gyno office. OK, yes, that's inappropriate. The proper response is to tell him to take that shit down. Should he be publicly shamed for it? Should he be fired? Or blackballed from the industry forever? The dogpiling is a problem.

  20. #160
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Some of these "offenses" are pretty minor, too. Samwise reportedly had a pap smear poster up in his office, like from a gyno office. OK, yes, that's inappropriate. The proper response is to tell him to take that shit down. Should he be publicly shamed for it? Should he be fired? Or blackballed from the industry forever? The dogpiling is a problem.
    Wait has anyone said Samwise has to go? I thought most of the flak was falling on the C-Suite guys at this point.
    WoW has Cancer. First you cut out the cancer (abusive devs), then you assign an aggressive treatment plan (major design rework) to save it.

    Or you just let it die because that's too expensive.

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