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  1. #141
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    People who have worked there for a long time =/= originals
    So who is "originals" then? Cause Samwise is still there, allen adham is still there, tom chilton is still there, are they not "originals" ?
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2021-08-03 at 07:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
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  2. #142
    More importantly, who actually in their heart of heart cares?

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    uhm if you read my post I said my opinions on SL aside.... he leads a team that was named... thus he is a target as leader
    Who are you talking about specifically?

    Most of the head-honchos have left, and the main name (Afrasiabi) has been let go a couple of years ago. Some of the 'enablers' from random pics revealed are also long gone. The few remaining i'm not even sure they work at WoW, which is Ion's team, as you put it?

  4. #144
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    This almost certainly wasn't Brack's decision, he was asked to retire. Optics were too poor. Important to signal this is taken seriously, and leadership matters.

    Re Ion, it's fair to blame him for the overall direction of the game, as that's his responsibility. Every individual aspect that you dislike, perhaps not. Anyway, nobody accused Ion of playing grabass so that's a big derail.
    while Alex Afrasiabi was the only named person in the suit, they did have a further 10 'john does' to be named at a later date who were/are high level management etc as part of the suit, and obviously we don't know who they are but in time we might, so who's to say he didn't get a bit handsy earlier on in his career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    So who is "originals" then? Cause Samwise is still there, allen adham is still there, tom chilton is still there, are they not "originals" ?
    Adham left and came back so wasn't around for a long time and probably isn't an issue in the suit, tom chilton was seen in many of the old photo's and in the different chatrooms, so it's fair to say he is involved somewhere, as for samwise, i haven't seen/heard about him for a long time now, while he may still be at the company he hasn't made much in the way of public appearances in a few years (that i can recall at least), and my impression of him is that he was a bit more of a reserved figure and wasn't that big on being the front and center of things.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Yes, but Ion talks to the players and is the main line of communication between developer teams and customers, much like GC took over that responsibility back in the day because no one else would do it.
    To be fair, there wasn't much communication before the news broke, anyway.

    Gotta be real, you learn nowadays more over the game by browsing the twitter feed of some developers than from "official" sources, which tells you something about how much of chaos it must be behind the scenes when virtually no one can take a stance on anything but their pet issues in the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Again, I really do think the problem is consensus design. Everybody has a hand in the final design and you end up with a bunch of parts that don't add up to much. Which is a decent and valid description for the game today.
    Obviously but that's an issue not directly related to this issue.

    Ion keeps his mouth shut currently because the game's issues currently take a backseat at Blizzard and due to what's in front he surely knows better than to say anything.
    Haven't heard much from much anybody in a leading position at Blizzard, either.

  6. #146
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Haven't heard much from much anybody in a leading position at Blizzard, either.
    While a valid point the phrase "I can't comment on an ongoing investigation" is carrying a lot of water here. It's true: they should all shut up about this and talk only to the lawyers.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    while Alex Afrasiabi was the only named person in the suit, they did have a further 10 'john does' to be named at a later date who were/are high level management etc as part of the suit, and obviously we don't know who they are but in time we might, so who's to say he didn't get a bit handsy earlier on in his career.
    Nobody, but it's kind of a dick move to burn down a man's life because he may be one of 10 unnamed people.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Brack sucked balls and was not a good president, however I doubt he's the cause of the misconduct. It either happened under him, or it happened before he got that position. He was not in the photograph in the Cosby Suite.

    More concerning is they canned this guy while keeping Stockton and McCree employed, two of the most obvious worst offenders.

    I expect more token moves to come. They aren't going to change anything, but a lot of the idiot consumers of their trash products will be duped into thinking they did.
    They'll vanish quietly and all the others that could be problematic. Brack just has to go to show that something is changing, the others are going when it looks less obvious what is going on and in a manner that doesn't allow them to sue blizzard for defamation or something along those lines. Essentially like Afrasiabi.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Yes, but Ion talks to the players and is the main line of communication between developer teams and customers, much like GC took over that responsibility back in the day because no one else would do it. To the simple minds that don't pay any attention to how things actually work in a large corporation, the messenger is CLEARLY the person who makes all decisions, has all responsibilities, etc. I'm not minimizing what Hazzikostas does as game director but it's been clear to me for a while now that his main job as game director isn't to design the game but to get the various departments on the same page compromising and doing whatever needs to be done to move forward.

    Again, I really do think the problem is consensus design. Everybody has a hand in the final design and you end up with a bunch of parts that don't add up to much. Which is a decent and valid description for the game today.

    All you need to do is look back at the flying kerfluffle at the start of Warlords and how paralyzed the development team was because they couldn't agree on what to do. So it went on for months and months. It's textbook.
    The WoW Game Director is a bit like the Defense Against the Dark Arts position at Hogwarts. Players want to hate that person. Players want to hate someone - and the game director is the most vocal, visible person players feel they can aim their pitchforks towards.

    The most amusing part, imo, is that if Ion was replaced - any new person who came in would only enjoy a short honeymoon period - because pitchforks would inevitably soonafter come out for them, too.

  10. #150
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    The WoW Game Director is a bit like the Defense Against the Dark Arts position at Hogwarts. Players want to hate that person. Players want to hate someone - and the game director is the most vocal, visible person players feel they can aim their pitchforks towards.

    The most amusing part, imo, is that if Ion was replaced - any new person who came in would only enjoy a short honeymoon period - because pitchforks would inevitably soonafter come out for them, too.
    Counter-Argument: Chilton was game director all the time GC was doing his thing. Chilton never said much of anything and people left him alone for the most part.

    I don't think the position matters. It's "shoot the messenger" logic writ large. I'll hasten to add you're not wrong but I think I have a slightly different perspective on it.

    And look at all the abuse that CM's took when they were communicative with WoW's players.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Yeah except Ion in Game Director, as in the person in charge of overseeing development of a video game.

    I dont really know why i say it since no one ever listen, but he is not making the decisions what direction story will take or what system to add, he might be part of the group that does it but there is not 1 single person making the decisions and have never been.

    But i know its easier to blame everything on just one guy, problem is, when that guy goes away nothing changes since the group making the decisions is still there.
    Ion talks like a boring robot... SL plays like a boring robot...

    I would be shocked if he did not have a huge influence in the current direction of the game. I seriously doubt he is sitting there thinking to himself "man, if only I had the power I would make this game way less grindy and way more about fun!".

    Brack going is a good thing, but nothing even begins to change until Ion is gone imo as far as game direction goes.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    More concerning is they canned this guy while keeping Stockton and McCree employed, two of the most obvious worst offenders.
    It's probably because J. was named in the lawsuit, while those two were not.

  13. #153
    Some of these "offenses" are pretty minor, too. Samwise reportedly had a pap smear poster up in his office, like from a gyno office. OK, yes, that's inappropriate. The proper response is to tell him to take that shit down. Should he be publicly shamed for it? Should he be fired? Or blackballed from the industry forever? The dogpiling is a problem.

  14. #154
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Some of these "offenses" are pretty minor, too. Samwise reportedly had a pap smear poster up in his office, like from a gyno office. OK, yes, that's inappropriate. The proper response is to tell him to take that shit down. Should he be publicly shamed for it? Should he be fired? Or blackballed from the industry forever? The dogpiling is a problem.
    Wait has anyone said Samwise has to go? I thought most of the flak was falling on the C-Suite guys at this point.
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  15. #155
    Mike Ybarra, one of the new "co-leaders" are actually playing the game. He got full 20s Mythic plus cleared in time and he posted his achievements on Reddit 6months ago - long before this shitstorm. And he is actually more dedicated than the average player.

    THAT for me is a major turn on - good direction or not. More of that.

    https://twitter.com/Qwik/status/1411...635684867?s=19
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2021-08-03 at 09:52 PM.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Brack sucked balls and was not a good president, however I doubt he's the cause of the misconduct. It either happened under him, or it happened before he got that position. He was not in the photograph in the Cosby Suite.

    More concerning is they canned this guy while keeping Stockton and McCree employed, two of the most obvious worst offenders.

    I expect more token moves to come. They aren't going to change anything, but a lot of the idiot consumers of their trash products will be duped into thinking they did.
    Overall I agree with your gist though imo JAB without a doubt either knew of or was just willfully ignorant of the problems(s) within the company and how hr was doing nothing about them. It's his job as president(more so as someone who'd been with the company for like 10-12 years) to know about it and to make sure each part of the company is doing its job. That comes with the responsibility of being president and why he definitely had to be fired/forced to resign. Many more people who enabled the problem for so long should also get the axe.

  17. #157
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Mike Ybarra, one of the new "co-leaders" are actually playing the game. He got full 20s Mythic plus cleared in time and he posted his achievements on Reddit 6months ago - long before this shitstorm. And he is actually more dedicated than the average player.

    THAT for me is a major turn on - good direction or not. More of that.
    Kaplan and Alex were the best EQ players on planet Earth

    But you are right, it does instill confidence. Ppl who play the game are 100x better than those that do not.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Overall I agree with your gist though imo JAB without a doubt either knew of or was just willfully ignorant of the problems(s) within the company and how hr was doing nothing about them. It's his job as president(more so as someone who'd been with the company for like 10-12 years) to know about it and to make sure each part of the company is doing its job. That comes with the responsibility of being president and why he definitely had to be fired/forced to resign. Many more people who enabled the problem for so long should also get the axe.
    CEO is different. President is different. Mike Morhaime was CEO with much more company influence. Bobby ruled Mike out of this influence.

    President means - in this case - you will obey Bobby K and you will pick up the crap left from the former CEO. You will most likely report in numbers(maybe that's why JAB wasn't suited for the job - he was just a programmer and not some MBA type). Mike should also get blamed more than JAB - but JAB really wasn't capable of showing the required leadership during this scandale.

    "Co-leaders" is less prestigious than the president(the two new people who are in charge now). OR - we can turn it around and say - they are supposed to be much more hands on, than just looking at charts/graphs. Meanwhile Bobby will take care of the numbers.

    Things will for sure change.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2021-08-03 at 09:48 PM.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Mike Ybarra, one of the new "co-leaders" are actually playing the game. He got full 20s Mythic plus cleared in time and he posted his achievements on Reddit 6months ago - long before this shitstorm. And he is actually more dedicated than the average player.

    THAT for me is a major turn on - good direction or not. More of that.
    That's actually supremely awesome. Can you provide a link to this information?

  20. #160
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    I guess there will be a story on this soon but it appears as if the Global Head of Human Resources for Activision/Blizzard, Jesse Meschuk, is also no longer with the company.

    Icy Veins has a story about it.

    Also Jason Schreier on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/st...53540774907907
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-08-03 at 09:50 PM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

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