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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    A community is a reflection of its leader.
    Right, it's a real shame most of WoW's leaders are low effort content creators farming views on YouTube by creating hundreds of negative videos about the game. Why bother forming your own opinion when you can tune into Bellular's weekly roundtable on reasons Blizzard sucks (and why FFXIV rules).
    New BiS for 9.1!

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    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Right, it's a real shame most of WoW's leaders are low effort content creators farming views on YouTube by creating hundreds of negative videos about the game. Why bother forming your own opinion when you can tune into Bellular's weekly roundtable on reasons Blizzard sucks (and why FFXIV rules).
    You were talking about echo chambers, but it seems like you’re sitting in one, too.

    It’s not Bellular alone, basically every major WoW streamer is critical about the game and negative about the direction Shadowlands is taking.

    I guess when most of your poster boys and girls on YouTube are producing negative videos about your product, your product sucks and not the ones posting negative videos about it.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    ITT: Wild speculation based off of incomplete information. Highlights to include: "Classic is carrying retail," "subscribers are down to all-time lows," any mention of the word "whales," and a general aura of negative cynicism thick enough to blot out the sun.
    And nothing to contradict it.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    You were talking about echo chambers, but it seems like you’re sitting in one, too.

    It’s not Bellular alone, basically every major WoW streamer is critical about the game and negative about the direction Shadowlands is taking.

    I guess when most of your poster boys and girls on YouTube are producing negative videos about your product, your product sucks and not the ones posting negative videos about it.
    Or, maybe, just maybe, YouTube has an algorithm that actively promotes negative content since that gives them the precious engagement they so crave. Bellular is probably the best example of this as his videos were largely positive during BfA and he'd frequently defend Blizzard to the extent that he was frequently referred to as a shill by most of the people posting here. At some point in 8.3, however, he decided to roll out a dogshit "gaming" subchannel and realized very quickly that stoking negativity of the game industry on that channel resulted in huge viewership. As a result, his WoW videos became increasingly more vitriolic while his views increased exponentially. The dude was always upfront about doing YouTube for the money so I can't blame him for being a slave to the algorithm but he definitely lost a lot of credibility in my eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    And nothing to contradict it.
    Right, I forgot the plural for anecdote is, indeed, data.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    A community is a reflection of its leader.
    -.- Which one of you accepted Blizzard as your leader? Most posters would rather listen to a youtuber then Blizzard while complaining that Blizzard nevers listens.

  6. #66
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I find it fascinating that while most MMORPGs and video gaming companies are thriving in new players, Blizzard is actively losing them since last year. They’re basically working against the trend where others gain massive amounts of new players while Blizzard is losing massive amounts of players.

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    This. I‘m someone who bought the TBC Deluxe edition. I shouldn’t have, but I did. And that’s where the money comes from, not from the huge amount of subs or sales, it’s from the few that spend money for stuff that doesn’t have a real worth or gameplay value attached to it, but is… fluff.
    IDK man I bought the upgrade because honestly i didn't want to spend weeks leveling an alt. I mean honestly my time is worth way more than $40, so to me a very sound use of my money. I get people are pissed over it but hey none of them said they'd come no life it for me and get an alt from 1-58 in exactly 2 minutes.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Or, maybe, just maybe, YouTube has an algorithm that actively promotes negative content since that gives them the precious engagement they so crave. Bellular is probably the best example of this as his videos were largely positive during BfA and he'd frequently defend Blizzard to the extent that he was frequently referred to as a shill by most of the people posting here. At some point in 8.3, however, he decided to roll out a dogshit "gaming" subchannel and realized very quickly that stoking negativity of the game industry on that channel resulted in huge viewership. As a result, his WoW videos became increasingly more vitriolic while his views increased exponentially. The dude was always upfront about doing YouTube for the money so I can't blame him for being a slave to the algorithm but he definitely lost a lot of credibility in my eyes.

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    Right, I forgot the plural for anecdote is, indeed, data.
    This post wins the thread.
    Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Or, maybe, just maybe, YouTube has an algorithm that actively promotes negative content since that gives them the precious engagement they so crave. Bellular is probably the best example of this as his videos were largely positive during BfA and he'd frequently defend Blizzard to the extent that he was frequently referred to as a shill by most of the people posting here. At some point in 8.3, however, he decided to roll out a dogshit "gaming" subchannel and realized very quickly that stoking negativity of the game industry on that channel resulted in huge viewership. As a result, his WoW videos became increasingly more vitriolic while his views increased exponentially. The dude was always upfront about doing YouTube for the money so I can't blame him for being a slave to the algorithm but he definitely lost a lot of credibility in my eyes.

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    Right, I forgot the plural for anecdote is, indeed, data.
    I don't really agree about Bellular. I think he was hopeful that Blizzard would change their shit design philosophy and finally just got to the point where he couldn't fake white knighting something any further. That's my personal take though. I think a lot of streamers just eventually got to that point.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Talon8669 View Post
    I don't really agree about Bellular. I think he was hopeful that Blizzard would change their shit design philosophy and finally just got to the point where he couldn't fake white knighting something any further. That's my personal take though. I think a lot of streamers just eventually got to that point.
    Mhmm... that epiphany just-so-happened to coincide with his viewership quadrupling. His channel is such a meme these days that it's pretty much become a waiting room for Asmongold reaction videos.

    (As an aside, Asmon is another dude who's rode the anti-WoW negativity wave all the way to the bank. Though, if I'm honest, I think he cares far more about WoW than Bellular. Bellular literally only says what he thinks will get him the most views; Asmon will at least provide reasoning for his takes. Bellular's most recent content is pretty much "FFXIV good, BLIZZARD BAD.")
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausr View Post
    This post wins the thread.
    Not really. Other games live off their positive streamers, but WoW streamers live off their negativity? This makes not much sense. It’s just an echo chamber reaction when you really don’t want to see that WoW has actually become pretty bad (or at least underwhelming) although it’s so obvious everybody is pointing it out or complaining about it.

    The argument that only negative content gets viewers is just blatantly false as others MMORPGs show. There’s a ton of positive videos about FFXIV for example and they’re getting increased viewers on that as well. So tell me, is the general audience for FFXIV just way more hopeful and positive than the WoW community or is there just much more to praise and applaud in FFXIV than in WoW at the moment? I think it’s the latter. There’s just not much in retail WoW that deserves positive recognition these days and that’s the reason why so many streamers are critical and negative about Shadowlands. It’s either say nothing or say something negative when there’s nothing positive to say.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Not really. Other games live off their positive streamers, but WoW streamers live off their negativity? This makes not much sense. It’s just an echo chamber reaction when you really don’t want to see that WoW has actually become pretty bad (or at least underwhelming) although it’s so obvious everybody is pointing it out or complaining about it.

    The argument that only negative content gets viewers is just blatantly false as others MMORPGs show. There’s a ton of positive videos about FFXIV for example and they’re getting increased viewers on that as well. So tell me, is the general audience for FFXIV just way more hopeful and positive than the WoW community or is there just much more to praise and applaud in FFXIV than in WoW at the moment? I think it’s the latter. There’s just not much in retail WoW that deserves positive recognition these days and that’s the reason why so many streamers are critical and negative about Shadowlands. It’s either say nothing or say something negative when there’s nothing positive to say.
    I think there is some truth in it because if WoW would genuinely be awesome now, there would be much less bullshit.

    But that said, trash talking and bitching about WoW is a decades long fan favorite thing, simply because unlike FF14, WoW painted a huge target sign on its back by being incessantly challenged by arguably worse MMOs that would come to "kill" it, but got yeeted themselves instead. You have a very big chunk of people who have an axe to grind with WoW, even regardless to reality.

    People really love to hate WoW and it is going on for many many years. Almost a tradition.

    FF14 on the other hand? It just never was that big bad wolf that everyone wants to take down. Its playerbase is also quite a bit less competitive and as such less toxic cesspit full of cringelords.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  12. #72
    I never want to hear the word "engagement" again in my f'ing life when it comes to a video game.

    That term is from the advertising and social media world and tells you everything you need to know about how Blizzard views their games and their player base.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Not really. Other games live off their positive streamers, but WoW streamers live off their negativity? This makes not much sense. It’s just an echo chamber reaction when you really don’t want to see that WoW has actually become pretty bad (or at least underwhelming) although it’s so obvious everybody is pointing it out or complaining about it.

    The argument that only negative content gets viewers is just blatantly false as others MMORPGs show. There’s a ton of positive videos about FFXIV for example and they’re getting increased viewers on that as well. So tell me, is the general audience for FFXIV just way more hopeful and positive than the WoW community or is there just much more to praise and applaud in FFXIV than in WoW at the moment? I think it’s the latter. There’s just not much in retail WoW that deserves positive recognition these days and that’s the reason why so many streamers are critical and negative about Shadowlands. It’s either say nothing or say something negative when there’s nothing positive to say.
    Or people are just going to another mmo. Same reason why they're going to A New World, despite Amazon's blatant exploitation of it's workers, which is apparently fine in their eyes because "spite Blizzard!"
    Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaqwert View Post
    I never want to hear the word "engagement" again in my f'ing life when it comes to a video game.

    That term is from the advertising and social media world and tells you everything you need to know about how Blizzard views their games and their player base.
    I mean, you can't really fault official report for investors using proper language that intended recipients understand.

    Of all faults and issues, this is just nitpicking.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    They're innovative in cultivating the shittiest gaming community that exists on the internet. Gotta give 'em props for that.
    Lmfao. If you think WoW's community is the "shittiest gaming community that exists on the internet," I've got a bridge to sell you.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    3 or 4 years? Bold. That's two entire expansions to muck it up more.
    Well, if it wasn't for classic, I prob would have quit in BFA.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausr View Post
    Or people are just going to another mmo. Same reason why they're going to A New World, despite Amazon's blatant exploitation of it's workers, which is apparently fine in their eyes because "spite Blizzard!"
    People trying out New World because it is a high profile MMO launch that is not yet another Korean/Japanese catgirls in school uniforms with huge swords weeb garbage (and yes I'm a weeb myself, weeb hating weebs meme full force).

    Reality is, majority does not give a fuck if the game is made by literal company led by Devil Incarnate (Andrew Wilson, for example), as long as it's actually good and fun or at least reasonably promising.

    I mean, after all is said and done - WoW is just a game. It's not some bloody nation, movement or a cause - you're not betraying motherland or some shit like that. You get bored and try out something new. Can't really hate that.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Revenue is up, but Blizzard players are down.

    So exactly what we all expected. Activision has no incentive to deal with this because worst-case Blizz just implodes and they can gobble up what they really want, the IPs.
    If you mean the other box on the Activision-Blizzard org chart named "Activision", why would that matter?

    If you mean Activision-Blizzard, which Kotick is the CEO of, they already own Blizzard 100% and could dismember its body at any time.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    Lmfao. If you think WoW's community is the "shittiest gaming community that exists on the internet," I've got a bridge to sell you.
    Please, sell me the bridge. I've participated in a lot of communities but I can't place my finger on any other community so hellbent on reveling in its own demise all the while still happily paying a monthly subscription for it. It's a one-of-a-kind cesspool, there's nothing else quite like it.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Please, sell me the bridge. I've participated in a lot of communities but I can't place my finger on any other community so hellbent on reveling in its own demise all the while still happily paying a monthly subscription for it. It's a one-of-a-kind cesspool, there's nothing else quite like it.
    You have a very warped perception if you think the community as a whole is "happily paying a monthly subscription" while "reveling in its own demise."

    The bridge is in Brooklyn, btw.

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