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  1. #101

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    well it definitely looks like it, going from 111m in Q3 through 128m in Q4 (when SL was released) through after expansion peak of 150m and back to 127m...
    but im sure your favourite streamer talks about massive exodus of people so the actual numbers pointing out something are wrong, angry man on yt/twiter is correct

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    yeah, almost seems like all the doomsayers who were talking about wow dying were wrong in 2021 as they were wrong in 2020
    and 2019
    and 2018
    and 2017
    and 2016
    and 2015
    ...
    and 2005
    and 2004
    I found someone I can agree with on this topic of discussion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Modern WoW is dying.. their earnings call slide all but says it. If it wasn't for classic, WoW and Blizzard itself would have been fucking screwed. Notice how they didn't even mention Shadowlands and it's new 9.1 patch, but mentioned classic god knows how many times. Shadowlands is irrelevant.

    Why do all the Classic TBC servers combined have less than two of Retails highest populated servers?

    Why is there a much larger number of guilds completing the current raid tier on Retail as shown on WoWProgress.com than guilds completing their current tier in TBC?

    "WoW is dying"... has been chanted since BC. They said it due to the Flying Mounts being introduced. I was there for it. And the forum trolls continue to say WoW is dying until this day. Race To World First and the MIDI attract much more attention and viewers than... streamers on TBC. Classic didn't save WoW. It only saved players who just want to experience the classic era again or players experiencing it for the first time or those players who did experience it but really didn't know what to do until today and now want to flex. Many of these players still log back onto retail for high end M+ keys, and Mythic raiding. I know them personally. They all say the same damn thing... Classic TBC too easy. Love Classic BC but it aint the retail savior.
    Last edited by Zsadist; 2021-08-04 at 07:05 AM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Zsadist View Post
    I found someone I can agree with on this topic of discussion!

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    Why do all the Classic TBC servers combined have less than two of Retails highest populated servers?

    Why is there a much larger number of guilds completing the current raid tier as shown on WoWProgress.com than guilds completing their current tier?

    WoW is dying"... has been chanted since BC. They said it due to the Flying Mounts being introduced I was there for it. And the forum trolls continue to say WoW is dying until this day. Race To World First and the MIDI attract much more attention and viewers than... streamers on TBC. Classic didn't save WoW. It only saved players who just want to experience the classic era again or for the first time. Many of them still log back onto retail for high end M+ keys, and Mythic raiding. I know them personally. They all say the same damn thing... too easy. Love Classic BC but it aint the retail savior.
    I don't know man. Look at their presentation. Blizzard seems to think that Classic is what carried WoW and the company this last quarter. Ask them. Do you see them mentioning shadowlands and patch 9.1 anywhere? Heres the link in case you forgot: https://investor.activision.com/stat...9-e7c647d36c03

    Below is the title of Blizzard's slide:
    Blizzard
    Blizzard’s launch of Burning CrusadeTM Classic in June marked the start of what is intended to be a very significant 18-
    month period for content releases. Blizzard had 26 million MAUs.
    Below is WoW specifically:
    "World of Warcraft net bookings again grew a double-digit percentage Y/Y, driven by the launch of Burning Crusade
    Classic. Subscriber numbers and hours played were higher following the release. "
    Hearthstone, OW, Diablo, Heroes of the storm etc had nothing new offered this quarter.

    I haven't even logged in to TBC and I'm unsubbed so I'm not some TBC andy. It's just the facts. Blizzard wants to avoid talking about shadowlands to investors.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-08-04 at 07:12 AM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    but im sure your favourite streamer talks about massive exodus of people so the actual numbers pointing out something are wrong, angry man on yt/twiter is correct
    4
    I love how you people are so intertwined with what streamers and YTers have to say that these days that you automatically assume everybody else takes their word as the gospel as well.

    It's really telling, but maybe I'm just too old...

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Kotick is totally justified to be all up in Blizzard's ass every single day over their lack of new product, high costs, and justifications for not hitting their own deadlines. "Release it when it's ready" is all well and fine but they hardly seem to release anything at all except for retreads, reworks and announcements about which games they will no longer support. That phrase is a justification to never finish anything. They've been coasting ever since Titan's failure and a shakeup is long overdue. This last business of over-promising with WC3, missing their deadlines for release and apparently running over budget is just the latest thing.
    It's kinda sad that Blizzard stopped releasing new games, Diablo4 is basically its last hope and new IPs are unheard of, and they fully switched to milking old cows like WOW Classic (now with more mtx and paid services), Starcraft1 remake, WC3 remake, D2 remake... Stop remaking old shit and make something fresh and new ffs.

    I feel like the "glory days" of Blizz was when they released Overwatch, Hearthstone, HOTS, last part of SC2 and I thought they will keep making and selling NEW games. Not repackaging old stuff some people already paid for and have to pay for again. One reason I kept playing WOW was to amass gold so I can convert it to bnet balance and buy other Blizzard games - but what games? They're not releasing anything new for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Yep. Blizzard MAUs are in free fall and the only thing that kept their revenue semi in check was a last minute release of TBC with deluxe editions, boosts, and MTX.
    Yeah, we were promised Classic "as it was back in the day" but nowadays you can buy a tbc levelling boost and a store mount that didn't even exist back then... That argument only works when it's in their favour (like keeping you from using modern store pets and mounts in Classic), but not the other way around. They're also altering the game to "fix" problems they created themselves (Chronoboon displacer, horde vs horde BGs in TBC...) so it's clear there's no reliving nostalgia there, the world moved on and so did the gaming community, you can't replicate the feeling we had when WOW was fresh. The game turned into boost city both on retail and classic, just wait until they realize how many people buy illegal gold on classic and introduce classic token to dip into that market.

  5. #105
    Putting issues at Blizzard work place aside, it's good to see the game thrive cause ultimately I just love the game and want it continue.
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    Everything wrong with gamers in one sentence:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    I want Activision-Blizzard to burn, but for crimes against gaming, not because they got me too'd.

  6. #106
    I'm gonna wait for next investor call. What i think about WoW should be and whats actually profitable are two different things.

    Q2 went basically as expected. Games are still making revenue, WoW going as natural as it should be and TBC Classing netting a good influx of players. All before the legal shitshow though.

    I don't really expect anything different though.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, almost seems like all the doomsayers who were talking about wow dying were wrong in 2021 as they were wrong in 2020
    and 2019
    and 2018
    and 2017
    and 2016
    and 2015
    ...
    and 2005
    and 2004
    WoW is most certainly not anywhere close to dying, but it is also most certainly in a serious slump now.

    It needs to land 10.0 and to make it bloody good. IMO, Blizzard managers themselves can't wait to be done with this arc and open a new page.

    Lukewarm (if that) investor calls, lawsuits, streamers exodus it's all bad news, but what will really decide in the end is if they release actual good games and expansions in 2022 or not. And lets be real, even if they will not make it a hit in 2022, they still can last a very very long time enough to try again and again until something hits.

    People here have this weird thinking of Blizzard apocalypse happening at every corner, but much of it is BS really. Same goes for WoW, even if Blizz continues to fuck up, it still will have a good decade and 4 more expansions in it.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    WoW is most certainly not anywhere close to dying, but it is also most certainly in a serious slump now.

    It needs to land 10.0 and to make it bloody good. IMO, Blizzard managers themselves can't wait to be done with this arc and open a new page.

    Lukewarm (if that) investor calls, lawsuits, streamers exodus it's all bad news, but what will really decide in the end is if they release actual good games and expansions in 2022 or not. And lets be real, even if they will not make it a hit in 2022, they still can last a very very long time enough to try again and again until something hits.

    People here have this weird thinking of Blizzard apocalypse happening at every corner, but much of it is BS really. Same goes for WoW, even if Blizz continues to fuck up, it still will have a good decade and 4 more expansions in it.
    Any realistic person knows/knew an mmo will stop growing in subs and start declining eventually. Happens with any of the long term mmos that are out.

    Intentionally not mentioning any of the pop up Asian ones or so called instant WoW killers that die in a month.
    Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    WoW is most certainly not anywhere close to dying, but it is also most certainly in a serious slump now.
    i mean, its hard to say without knowing distribution per game but they have roughly as much MAUs as before SL release (which is usual with expansion release)...
    so "slump" compared to their absolute peak in wotlk? definitely, but compared to post cata "normal" i would say they hang in there

    EDIT: i was looking at activision maus not blizz, so yeah there is decline, but somehow i think only two games (wow +classic) that had contend added in past... i dont even know how long are not realy responsible for that... especialy since wow is literaly mentioned as doing better than usualy in "nonexpansion" years
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Lukewarm (if that) investor calls, lawsuits, streamers exodus it's all bad news
    which will be forgoten (by most) in few weeks, remember the blizchung and "lets boycot bliz"? two weeks later, nobody mentioned it...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-08-04 at 06:23 PM.

  10. #110
    Pit Lord Sluvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    What is "Blizzard" without Chris Metzen? He was the one that created all of the IP's of Blizzard. Blizzard hasn't created a new IP/new game since he left in 2016.
    I don't know if he was the one that created all IPs but his absence, and many of the original crew, you can feel their absence. I completely agree with you, they put themselves in the situation that they are right now by building blizzard around these personalities. And when these personalities leave or turn out to be shitty people, all you have left is an empty office building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Modern WoW is dying.. their earnings call slide all but says it. If it wasn't for classic, WoW and Blizzard itself would have been fucking screwed. Notice how they didn't even mention Shadowlands and it's new 9.1 patch, but mentioned classic god knows how many times. Shadowlands is irrelevant.

    And Shadowlands launch in Q4 2020 only boosting quarterly revenue by 15% over Q3 2020 isn't saying a lot considering the box revenue and supposed surge of players coming back.. lol
    Well, they actually did mention modern wow, they just didn't talk too much about it because the big release was TBCC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    i mean, its hard to say without knowing distribution per game but they have roughly as much MAUs as before SL release (which is usual with expansion release)...
    so "slump" compared to their absolute peak in wotlk? definitely, but compared to post cata "normal" i would say they hang in there

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    which will be forgoten (by most) in few weeks, remember the blizchung and "lets boycot bliz"? two weeks later, nobody mentioned it...
    Well, im not so sure people will forget this so easily, it is a bigger problem than blitz and people are still out for blood. Just yesterday JAB was fired and the HR director was fired too. Not to mention that this lawsuit is a little more persistent than your normal crisis and will demand consequences for acti-blizz.

    I think people are downplaying it because they think the worst is past us. I'm not so sure.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    Well, im not so sure people will forget this so easily, it is a bigger problem than blitz and people are still out for blood. Just yesterday JAB was fired and the HR director was fired too. Not to mention that this lawsuit is a little more persistent than your normal crisis and will demand consequences for acti-blizz.
    people were out for blood back then, how blizz supresses human rights and so on, this is not different, and sure the lawsuit will have some impact, but unless its settled outside of court (which is possible) it will probably drag for years, and firing brack and HR director was literaly to appease people now they will setle down and move to another "sensation"...
    people ignore bigger issues, and they will ignore this too soon, some people will be fired (already started) some restructuring will happen they will make some empty statements and people will move on

    people will always move on fast for very simple reason - most of them dont give a fuck, they want to SEEM they care, but they dont
    i think the most genuine reaction was people who asked if it means 9.2 will be late, thats the extend of how much most people care - "how will it affect ME"
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-08-04 at 04:06 PM.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    I don't know if he was the one that created all IPs but his absence, and many of the original crew, you can feel their absence. I completely agree with you, they put themselves in the situation that they are right now by building blizzard around these personalities. And when these personalities leave or turn out to be shitty people, all you have left is an empty office building.

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    Well, they actually did mention modern wow, they just didn't talk too much about it because the big release was TBCC

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    Well, im not so sure people will forget this so easily, it is a bigger problem than blitz and people are still out for blood. Just yesterday JAB was fired and the HR director was fired too. Not to mention that this lawsuit is a little more persistent than your normal crisis and will demand consequences for acti-blizz.

    I think people are downplaying it because they think the worst is past us. I'm not so sure.
    He didn't create any IPs, he was in charge of creativity, which I'm sure oversaw teams working on new IPs and helped wit art, characters, and story. Creating the IPs wasn't him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    WoW is most certainly not anywhere close to dying, but it is also most certainly in a serious slump now.

    It needs to land 10.0 and to make it bloody good. IMO, Blizzard managers themselves can't wait to be done with this arc and open a new page.

    Lukewarm (if that) investor calls, lawsuits, streamers exodus it's all bad news, but what will really decide in the end is if they release actual good games and expansions in 2022 or not. And lets be real, even if they will not make it a hit in 2022, they still can last a very very long time enough to try again and again until something hits.

    People here have this weird thinking of Blizzard apocalypse happening at every corner, but much of it is BS really. Same goes for WoW, even if Blizz continues to fuck up, it still will have a good decade and 4 more expansions in it.
    And that serious slump would be considered a runaway success for any other MMO. Yes I understand perspective that they had 12M world wide subscribers at one point. But it was still relatively new. WoW pretty much had followed the natural product lifecycle curve, which would have seen it's replacement many years ago.

    We know why that will(did) not happen. But thinking a 17 year old game will be able to regain its glory and resemble anything like it was in the super successful, struck gold when there was no legitimate competition, days is foolish.

    Of course the product always has room to improve, but it's still tremendously successful.

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