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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Leveling is antiquated. Since when is the purpose of an RPG simply leveling? Linear character progression doesn't have to be tied to a single numerical value.
    Since when is the purpose of wow simply leveling?>
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sites have their own audiences with their own specialized opinion makers.

  2. #22
    Since they felt the need to bring everyone back to level 60 shows level really is pointless.

  3. #23
    The devs obviously HATE leveling with a passion, so they made it boring and stupid easy. Its unsurprising that people will call to remove it. The solution is to hire devs that actually like leveling, so that they can pour their passion into it. The current devs are about end game raiding, so leveling is terrible and PvP is in a tiny sandbox arena.

    One of my fixes is about fleshing out PvP and leveling into their own true end game path. Hardly matters at this point. WoW is getting absolutely destroyed now.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  4. #24
    I love how people react to this claiming this to be an RPG.
    This game is not an RPG. Hasn't been for a long time.

    It's closer to a moba with loads of power systems on top and pve option. Literally an instanced game you repeat ad-nauseum.
    The story is mostly absent, your character is a nameless champion no one truly knows. Has no backstory, no persistance in the world, no personality, no relationship with the other characters, no weight on decisions.
    Where exactly is the Role Playing Game? Probably only on RP servers.

    Yes, the leveling is currently useless in this game and resources might as well go for creating more dungeons and raids if this is what they keep doing. Fans of the current game would probably be happy with that.

    Otherwise, they have a lot of work to do to turn this into an RPG.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-08-06 at 03:52 AM.

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    With a series of challenges that give hard pass/fails on your class.

    Something like a proving ground but tailored to each class specifically. Add to that a basic rotation guide and you could reduce leveling to roughly an hour and actually teach people the basics of the game at the same time.

    Keep the world active for people who want to enjoy the story/transmog but offer a real tutorial to the game instead.
    Naw we good.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I love how people react to this claiming this to be an RPG.
    This game is not an RPG. Hasn't been for a long time.
    That depends entirely on how you define RPG. It's a very broad, somewhat vague term - what people mean, in many cases, is that WoW isn't/is no longer a SPECIFIC KIND of RPG that they think it used to be or that they would like it to be. Which, don't get me wrong, is an entirely legitimate complaint. It's just important to be clear about what you mean when you say RPG, so perhaps avoid using that very general label and just outline your expectations.

    It's entirely possible to define "RPG" without any leveling being involved at all; even without any mechanical (as opposed to narrative) character progression being involved, though that would be more difficult. No one is saying WoW should get rid of all character progression when they criticize leveling - quite the contrary, many people who advocate for the removal of levels would like to see it replaced with some other kind of character progression that is more meaningful than an arbitrary "you need to be this tall to ride" kind of number.

  7. #27
    An RPG minus leveling is usually classified as an action-adventure game. Zelda is an example.

    You could make an argument that Blizz is slowly turning WoW into something more like Zelda.

    In fact, you can also argue they are stripping out social everywhere they can and also turning it into something more like Zelda in that regard as well.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  8. #28
    Leveling is the only enjoyable thing this game has left.

  9. #29
    Remove the level system and replace it with a questline. If players want, they can just do all of the main quests and hit max level asap. It could be something like completing one of the four covenants, or whatever. Whatever the new leveling quest content ends up looking like.
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  10. #30
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    I can’t think of any thing that would kill new/returning players interest or even just the first of trying different classes then throwing players into abunch of forces tutorials with no sense of world and then being spat out at max level.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #31
    Leveling serves the purpose of introducing the new expansion, new systems and the main story.

    I'm all on for constant squishes all the times. Every new expansion is 50-60 and the old one goes into the "legacy bucket" as an additional timeline to do the 10-50.

    Leveling is fine as it is. A starter progression you do first to learn the ropes. If you don't like leveling, there are level boosts in the shop. Not that it takes really long to level normally at this point.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  12. #32
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Levelling should take longer and be at least a bit harder. Max level grinds could be toned down as compensation. It's no use levelling a toon from scratch (or level 10 in the case of ARs) to the level cap at lightning speed, only to be grinding tedious stuff such as renown or Torghast once you get there.

    Come to think about it, WotLK almost hit the sweet spot in that regard. The only bad parts were making Outland mandatory for levelling and overnerfing a lot of outdoors content.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

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    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  13. #33
    the problem with removing is, you assume that your reasons for removing something outweight ALL other people's reasons to like that thing.
    in that vein, why have X or Y? i don't like it, remove it.

    an alternative would be nice.

    with how convoluted classes/speccs are, and with how much the gameplay often changes after unlocking end-game systems such as legendaries,
    there is no way they can teach proper class gameplay during leveling.

    maybe a nice alternative would be to allow the shop level boost to go to max lvl once you have a maxed char and are 1 patch in.
    so starting with X.1, you can boost your alt to max lvl with any unlock from leveling unlocked, but no max level systems outside of account-wide stuff.

    and once X.2 hits, the base stuff from X.0 could be added so that a boosted char was similar to someone starting X.1 in normal gear. that way you would always be 1 patch behind the curve, which is a fine place for an alt to start.
    The above mentioned remarks, ideas and notions are simply my thought on this topic. I do not wish to aggravate, denounce or criticize anyone who, for whatever reason, may disagree.

  14. #34
    RPG is more about character progression. Leveling atm gives you 1% of character progression. Yes lvling is pointless and could be replaced.

  15. #35
    Leveling is an important part of an MMO it can't be replaced but I do wish it were more like where it was during Cataclysm. Before they nerfed the ever living daylights out of player stats and damage going through the old content was fun and felt faster. Out leveling a zones questline halfway through wasn't great but that was solved by scaling. A pity there heavy handed approach at the time screwed us over for years and were just now at this point again.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I think leveling should be replaced.
    And I think, not.

    There is a boost for purchase for exact people like you.
    Last edited by kodemonkee; 2021-08-06 at 06:07 AM.

  17. #37
    Threads like this show how much the audience has changed over the years. At the start of WoW leveling WAS the game. It was a journey, it was an adventure. It brought fun from slowly improving your character and gear (also by running dungeons or crafting), taking on bigger challenges and seeing how something previously hard becomes easier now or even taking challenges to beat something above your level.

    Over the years this all has been removed - leveling has been so streamlined and simplified that it holds no challenge and became bland. It's so fast and easy that it doesnt make sense to try to improve the gear. With scaling there are no challenges either and you can't see the progress. In its current form the leveling has been diluted to this one single meaningless number, just a timegate for the endgame. As such it could simply be removed.

    And it seems that nowadays people want it that way.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  18. #38
    I enjoy leveling up and losing damage, crit, mastery, versatility, and haste every level, becoming weaker until the next raid tier.

    I enjoy leveling up to regain abilities, spells, and talents I had lost because of the prepatch.

    It's great. 8^)

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LostSinclair View Post
    Leveling is an important part of an MMO it can't be replaced but I do wish it were more like where it was during Cataclysm. Before they nerfed the ever living daylights out of player stats and damage going through the old content was fun and felt faster. Out leveling a zones questline halfway through wasn't great but that was solved by scaling. A pity there heavy handed approach at the time screwed us over for years and were just now at this point again.
    In WoW leveling has already been replaced with progression through max level content (3 difficulty levels of dungeons / raids. pushing m+). What was left of leveling is neither engaging, nor meaningful, nor fun.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  20. #40
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Leveling should remain the game. Full stop. It should be expanded and made interesting for new players.

    It would be great if expansions just provided end game content without the pathetic excuse for leveling that is current now. There are MMO's that do this and are doing well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kodemonkee View Post
    And I think, not.

    There is a boost for purchase for exact people like you.
    You don't even need to purchase it. One comes for free with an expansion.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

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