They are trying to do too much with wow and not willing

[Beloren]

To do the right things well.

It is an rail based MMO with just enough of a sandbox type exploration tinge of the world that for me was an approach that for the limitations of what they were trying to achieve in the medium’s genre. Yet since TBC, they are trying to tell major storylines without giving them the depth and fleshing those huge events deserve.

You can’t do that all in one game with the sort of priority they give story.


Seriously, let wow return back to zones and races focus for your adventurer hero and leave the big events for a new RTS or RPG single game - you can always release wow expansions that update the areas the new game shows or progresses the story to new continents.


They sat down and put everything into one game and didn’t care enough to tell it to us properly, Ofc we are going to think it’s shit. You can’t just throw in a few cinematics and quest texts and expect us to properly understand or accept all the motivations and machinations that are engineering that event.

It just sounds shitty to us.

[A Blue Smurf]

WoW is not and has never tried to be a sandbox type MMO. It's a theatre-park MMO and always has been, the problem is that the park has been getting smaller and smaller. The old rides have been left to rot and unserviceable, the pools left to evaporate and run dry. The lazy river has become a filthy, stagnant swamp instead of the slow flowing stream of relaxation it once was.

It's not that they're trying to do too much and aren't willing to commit; its that they've long ago forgotten that there is an entire world(s) to explore, update and populate. They're Icarus trying to fly too high, having had forgotten where they learnt to walk and the paths that they once tread.

[Twdft]

It is an MMO based on a sandbox type exploration of the world.

How did you come to that conclusion? WoW was never even near sandbox type game.

[Gaidax]

It is an MMO based on a sandbox type exploration of the world.

No it's not, buddy. Never was and never meant to be.

[Thrif]

No it's not, buddy. Never was and never meant to be.

How did you come to that conclusion? WoW was never even near sandbox type game.

WoW is not and has never tried to be a sandbox type MMO.

What constitutes a sandbox can be debated, but the early expansions definitely had a sandboxier approach where you were a lot freer on where to go and what to do, and the story were more centered on each zone and didn't have the same overarcing structure it has now.

That could be a result of the game becoming less levelling and more endgame oriented, they definitely went up hand in hand.

So while it was never perhaps a true sandbox it definitely had a lot more elements of it back in the day. It has definitely evolved into being more streamlined and more cramped into poor main campaign stories over the year, which is what OP is commenting on.

[Mysterymask]

What constitutes a sandbox can be debated, but the early expansions definitely had a sandboxier approach where you were a lot freer on where to go and what to do, and the story were more centered on each zone and didn't have the same overarcing structure it has now.

Except wow's old sales pitch was this was an MMO that didn't have half the sandboxy stuff that people didn't like in other MORE Sandboxish MMOs like Ultima, Star Wars Galaxies, and Everquest. Clear direction on where to go what to do, streamlined leveling experience, etc etc etc.

So no wow has never been by any stretch a sandbox MMO..unless your in an RP Realm and well that's a totally different can of worms.

[TheLucky1]

What constitutes a sandbox can be debated, but the early expansions definitely had a sandboxier approach where you were a lot freer on where to go and what to do, and the story were more centered on each zone and didn't have the same overarcing structure it has now.

That could be a result of the game becoming less levelling and more endgame oriented, they definitely went up hand in hand.

So while it was never perhaps a true sandbox it definitely had a lot more elements of it back in the day. It has definitely evolved into being more streamlined and more cramped into poor main campaign stories over the year, which is what OP is commenting on.

in 2004-2006? Sure.
But now? we have seen how the metagame of classic went kekw.

[Beloren]

in 2004-2006? Sure.
But now? we have seen how the metagame of classic went kekw.

I was talking about classic.

Where it felt like a huge world you had to explore each zone and were not always nose led.

That changed with TBC

[Trend]

I was talking about classic.

Where it felt like a huge world you had to explore each zone and were not always nose led.

That changed with TBC

There is a spectrum running from full sandbox on one side to full rails on the other side. I think you're losing people in this discussion because WoW, from the very beginning, was always more towards the rails side of the spectrum. That it is even more on rails now does not change that.

Also, when people are ignorant about content and they do not realize what they are supposed to be doing, they can mistake their environment for a sandbox. I lot of people in classic were simply uninformed and didn't recognize the rails that were there.

[uuuhname]

it would be awesome if they made WC4 over a decade ago for all the major lore developments instead of WoW being the only vehicle to this with. what's so bizarre is I enjoy the story lines in each of the zones in pretty much every expansion but the over arching story of each expansion is just awful, ever since the end of wrath.

[Beloren]

it would be awesome if they made WC4 over a decade ago for all the major lore developments instead of WoW being the only vehicle to this with. what's so bizarre is I enjoy the story lines in each of the zones in pretty much every expansion but the over arching story of each expansion is just awful, ever since the end of wrath.

Yes. This is my main point.

Why do only wow when they were not going to tell a decent story through it.

Nevermind how bad the game was at updating lore. Remember doing cataclysm then having to do TBC and WotLK - no explanation to a levelling player and no effort to fix it.

This is how little they cared about telling a decent story through their game.

Only the latest expansion mattered

[GreenJesus]

Classic wow was a "sandbox" because it just didn't have any content.

[Soon-TM]

Classic wow was a "sandbox" because it just didn't have any content.

Classic was filled to the brim with content. The only thing it didn't have were daily/weekly quests (aside from that one quest in LHC, I guess). And most dailies /weeklies can honestly die in a fire for all I care.

Inb4 M+.

[Dracullus]

I was talking about classic.

Where it felt like a huge world you had to explore each zone and were not always nose led.

That changed with TBC

Whole gaming changed. Also your perception. When I played Morrowind in 2005 it was massive world for me, took me like 4 months playing daily to 'finish' just main game, looking for town to join army was adventure for me back then. When I played Morrowind in 2015 illusion was gone, noticed world is pretty tiny and most quests don't even have a story and are simple fedex...

Classic was filled to the brim with content. The only thing it didn't have were daily/weekly quests (aside from that one quest in LHC, I guess). And most dailies /weeklies can honestly die in a fire for all I care.

Inb4 M+.

Maybe someone would believe you 2 years ago, but now everyone can check. Slowing you down, both literally and through reducing drop rates for simple quests it's not "more content".

[Pheraz]

Classic wow was a "sandbox" because it just didn't have any content.

The cool thing about classic was the relevant world and adventures you need to make. Sometimes we needed to travel with a boat to kalimdor just to fly and run to dire maul just because one trinket was very good. Or later on farming maraudon for nature resistant gear. Or farming felwood water elementals for essences of water to sell on the AH because it was an easy way to get gold for your epic mount. So all the world was relevant all the time. I love retail (SL not so much) but I think they need to calm down with all those additional systems and make normal systems like drops,mats, professions, gold and so on relevant. Why spam the people with loot just to let them salvage 90% making most of the profession farming less relevant? I think it's cool to go out into the world to a specific spot to farm a specific item

[Alkizon]

So it's kind of Quests/Servers(/social) organization thread...

6. Bad world+ (and not only) scaling +(+/+)+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+
8. Servers+ type/org (WM&MMO+changes'soc.psycho.res+auto/subscr) +(+/+/+/+/+)+(+)+(+/+/+/+/+)+(+/+/+/+)
9. Quests(also rewards)/leveling (&levels) +(+/+/+)+(+)

[FuxieDK]

WoW was never even near sandbox type game.

Timeless Isle, Tanaan Jungle, Mechagon, Nazjatar and similar zone wants a word with you..

[Kehego]

Timeless Isle, Tanaan Jungle, Mechagon, Nazjatar and similar zone wants a word with you..

Timeless isle is literally the only one without an overarching storyline.

[rrayy]

To do the right things well.

It is an rail based MMO with just enough of a sandbox type exploration tinge of the world that for me was an approach that for the limitations of what they were trying to achieve in the medium’s genre. Yet since TBC, they are trying to tell major storylines without giving them the depth and fleshing those huge events deserve.

You can’t do that all in one game with the sort of priority they give story.


Seriously, let wow return back to zones and races focus for your adventurer hero and leave the big events for a new RTS or RPG single game - you can always release wow expansions that update the areas the new game shows or progresses the story to new continents.


They sat down and put everything into one game and didn’t care enough to tell it to us properly, Ofc we are going to think it’s shit. You can’t just throw in a few cinematics and quest texts and expect us to properly understand or accept all the motivations and machinations that are engineering that event.

It just sounds shitty to us.

Who is us? You only speak for you. Also was is right in terms of the game is subjective. What you think is right ohers think is wrong. Basically what youa re saying is Blizzard should do what you and only you want.

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Classic was filled to the brim with content. The only thing it didn't have were daily/weekly quests (aside from that one quest in LHC, I guess). And most dailies /weeklies can honestly die in a fire for all I care.

Inb4 M+.

Umm what? Reach 60 and there was absolutely nothing to do if you did not raid. Doesn't come close to "filled to the brim with content".

[Beloren]

Who is us? You only speak for you. Also was is right in terms of the game is subjective. What you think is right ohers think is wrong. Basically what youa re saying is Blizzard should do what you and only you want.

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Umm what? Reach 60 and there was absolutely nothing to do if you did not raid. Doesn't come close to "filled to the brim with content".

True. But don’t you think things aren’t working as smooth and positively like they should do?

I think the approach of doing everything for Warcraft in one game is part of the main problem. Especially when the game is I’ll equipped to fully handle the storylines properly and they aren’t willing to extensively upgrade how they do it.

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Don’t you think they’d greatly benefit from additional games set in Warcraft rather than just the one mmo?