1. #1

    Idea to rez the Open World + RPG feeling

    Introduction:

    I think we can all agree that there's plenty of instanced, high-end content at max-level, but Open World content feels a bit dead. Not that it doesn't exist (there's plenty of dailies and collectibles), but that it doesn't feel.... well.... important nor fun to many of us. I have an idea, consisting of a few major changes that all link together, that would perhaps revitalize the Open World experience at max-level, making the Open World part of meaningful power progression, less grindy-feeling, and thus would give players a reason to leave the main cities while also having a ton more RPG customization elements added to their game.

    TL;DR = Make professions extremely relevant and powerful at max-level, greatly expand the catalog of craftable/consumable/enchantable/etc things each profession can do. This in turn creates more RPG variety and choice, while also greatly increasing the need for a crap ton of resources in the economy. To account for this, replace the Anima/Azerite/ArtifactPower reward system with profession resources as the de-facto reward for everything, and add more Open World ways to obtain these resources that are inherently social, as listed and described below.

    If you want the details, here we go:
    sorry for walls of text

    Step 1: Make professions extremely relevant for max-level content (Raiding, M+, PvP)

    Professions could be some of the coolest RPG elements of WoW, with each player potentially providing immense value to themselves and other players while stimulating an ever fluctuating economy. Imagine this: Every profession has craftables/enchantables/etc that are very powerful, very varied, and that they can share, but also require a ton of resources to make.

    • For blacksmithing/leatherworking/tailoring, this means that you would once again be able to craft some of the most powerful gear in the game for yourself or others. This gear would follow an upgrade system like Stormherald of the days of old, where the lower/mid versions of an item are competitive and very good whilst the highest versions are for the super-tryhardiest of high-end players. The resource requirements obviously grow as the versions of this powerful gear rank up, going up in both quantity needed and difficulty of obtaining.
    • For enchanting, this means that every possible slot of gear is enchantable, and with way more options for enchantments. Why are only ~5 pieces of gear enchantable right now? And why are there essentially zero choices or options for customization in those enchantments? Add every secondary & tertiary stat as an enchant option for every slot of gear (haste, crit, etc + leech, avoidance, etc), and throw in some unique passive/proc effects as well. Imagine potential Corruption-like effects, but less powerfully game-breaking of course. For ex: “Enchant Bracers - Liberation - reduces duration of root effects on you by x%”. These would add spice + flavor + choices. Even if people min-max these and there’s a BiS, which there always will be, it’d be fun to try out new things and play around with crazy combinations. And last point here, like the above professions, is that soooo many enchants needed for every slot of gear means more resources are needed in the economy.
    • For jewelcrafting, you can imagine something similar to enchanting, where most pieces of gear have at least one gem slot, and again there’d be gems for every secondary/tertiary stat. It’s essentially the same thing as enchanting, just different RP flavor and yet another thing to customize your character while adding more need for resources into the economy. And what the hell, throw in gem rankings again, much like the above blacksmithing Stormherald example, to create something further for top-end players to strive for.
    • For alchemy, well actually that can stay as is because it’s one of the professions that requires constant resource gathering because of the nature of what it creates: temporary consumables.
    • For inscription, make the runes/scrolls as good as flasks/potions and make them stack with alchemy goods. Similar to the relation between enchanting & jewelcrafting, where both do essentially the same thing (passively increase stats by boosting gear), alchemy and inscription can both fill the purpose of temporary consumables that boost player power. While it is redundant, its fun to stack boosts. It makes your character feel more powerful. And also (you’re probably seeing a trend at this point) it adds more need for more resources in the economy.
    • For engineering, and this one might be the controversial, but add back powerful consumables that are tradeable and usable by everyone. Nothing as degenerate as those grenades in Classic WoW that oneshot stun people, but things that can help any player in general situations. For example: “Deployable Forcefield Generator - Reduces damage taken by allies who stand in it by x% for 5 seconds”. Or how about “Power Refracting Beam - Use on an ally, increasing their damage by x% of all the damage you deal for the next 10 seconds”. Etc etc, the main point being: add a ton of variety and make them all consumable so that there’s a need to get more resources to keep making them for everybody.

    So what now? Professions are extremely relevant again, and there’s a ton of variety and options and this would add some cool RPG fun back into the game. But you’re probably thinking, “Wow that sucks, now I have to go grind resources. And grinding resources sucks. It’s boring and tedious and awful.” And here’s where the magic comes in:

    Step 2: Make the majority of Open World content based around obtaining resources & recipes in different ways.

    Of course, the traditional method of obtaining resources would still be there, namely gathering professions. But now think of all the dailies, the world quests, the rare spawns, the treasure chests, and so much more. Instead of everything granting some resource like Anima, that has zero effect on player power and thus is useless for a player who doesn’t care about collectibles, or a resource like Azerite, which does affect player power but in the LEAST diverse and MOST boring way (grind for a single stat increase by yourself), I suggest that most Open World content should reward profession resources, which goes hand in hand with the above suggested changes that’d increase the need for those resources. Let’s break it down:

    • Dailies/world quests: have them reward resources (herbs/ore/enchanting dusts/engineering gears/etc)
    • Rare spawns: have them drop resources & recipes, including rarer resources that might be needed for that Stormherald-type gear, or that especially powerful on-use engineering item, or that especially powerful flask that you need for your Mythic raid (or to stomp on some nubs in a random BG haha). Increase the number and location randomness of rare spawns around the world so that players can run into them naturally instead of camping a single area. Also, have varying levels of difficulty for these rares. Currently in-game, all rare mobs are essentially one-shottable jokes. Make some of them actually tough, maybe requiring 3 people who aren’t tanks/healers, something along that line. The harder the rare, the more/better the resources it drops. With both randomness in spawn location + a sometimes difficult encounter that requires others, that would encourage players to get their friends to come along with them, or make nice with other players that they meet in the Open World.
    • Hourly events in each zone of the current max-level continent: Remember the BC zones had those PvP minigames of capturing the towers to get a faction/zone-wide buff? Bring that back, but make it applicable to both PvE and PvP players and make the zone-wide, faction-wide buffs increase resource obtainment. For the PvP events, pretty simple, just re-create the BC capture the towers stuff like in Hellfire Peninsula. After a faction wins, then for the next “x” hours, your faction in that zone gets +x% more resources for doing stuff, or maybe has +x% increased chance of finding rares, etc etc. For the PvE versions of these constantly happening events, spawn 2 semi-easy raid bosses, 1 for each faction, and have it be a race to see who can down it first. And yes, the PvP and PvE events can stack (though without WarMode you don’t get PvP zone buff).
    • Reputation grinds: Getting rep allows players to buy more powerful recipes for the various profession goods. Think jewelcrafting in BC, but expanded to every profession and also certain reps increasing your ability to obtain resources in certain zones.
    • World PvP: Make killing other players grant some resources (not stealing it, just looting it from their corpses). Make killing a bounty drop a lot of resources.
    • Instanced content - Raids/Dungeons/Battlegrounds/Arena: Obviously these would reward resources too (including super rare resources needed for top-end craftables/consumables/etc), thus giving players a reason to do them even after outgearing them. For example, the next raid tier has come out, but your guild can choose to still run the previous raid tier because it drops a fuck ton of resources, thus sparing your guild the effort of doing some dailies or whatever ya’ll don’t wanna do. Or more realistically, giving your tryhard guild excess resources for BiS craft gear/top-enchants/top-gems/top-flasks/top-scrolls/maxxed engineering items.


    Step 3: Putting it together

    What does all of the above add up to? Let’s hypothesize:

    • With professions being extremely relevant and having a ton of variety in each of them, a player’s choice in their 2 professions becomes much more important. Meaningful choices are good. It’s another part of your character to progress.
    • Players have various routes to bolster their character’s power levels besides just waiting to raid/arena log every week and then opening a chest on Tuesday *snooze*.
    • Players have much more customization options in their player’s power. From more gear choices via crafting actually being good, to getting the most powerful flasks/scrolls buffing you, to keeping a nifty engineering item up your sleeve in a sticky situation. Maybe I’m an afflic lock and for shits’n’gigs I want to stack all Leech and become an unkillable god in a battleground. Even if it’s not BiS and not ideal for the highest level of play, it’d be fun to try stuff out and see what insane (if not impractical) builds people come up with. Important to note that nearly all of this increased variety of craftables/consumables/enchantables/etc would be tradeable and not limited to a blacksmither/alchemist/enchanter/etc.
    • Players have a reason to go do content in the Open World. It affects player power so it is “necessary” for many players. But the reward feels much more diverse and varied than a single Azerite/Anima/AP boost. Because what you’re getting isn’t immediately the end of the reward, it must be traded and swapped and crafted into a meaningful reward.
    • All of the increased need for resources increases player interaction via the economy and the Open World. Anima or Azerite or Artifact Power, which is the de-facto reward for doing anything in the game at any point, feels like a single player game reward. They have no variety and give you something by yourself in isolation (and what they give you isn’t really that interesting). Profession resources are inherently social because you can’t use all of them yourself. You’ll need others to help you utilize them, or you’ll need to sell them or buy others that you’re missing. Think if everything in the game de-facto awarded various profession resources instead of Anima/Azerite/AP, and there’s actually super cool choices of things to craft with them. It makes the hamster wheel grind much more fun because it’s social and varied. Who knows, if I get a drop of this rare herb from this rare, then I’ll have a super powerful flask for tonight’s Raid. Otherwise maybe I’ll just get one step closer to crafting that BiS gear. It’s variety + social interaction built into the reward system of the Open World.


  2. #2
    I had the same idea (plus a lot more):
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...be-implemented

    Go to the Make Professions Great Again
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  3. #3
    IMO playing TBC classic made me realize how much I missed professions being relevant in the game. It genuinely feels like every profession has a use to it. Compare that to now and it's seriously disappointing what's become of them. (What does inscription even do these days? lol)

  4. #4
    While I generally agree with professions being more important and it's value to the RPG genre, the current state of legendaries leads me to believe that the current market realities (tokens) would just lead to more absurd money making schemes that would drag any effort down to make them relevant outside of cosmetic features. It would be nightmarish.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Shinela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticj View Post
    (What does inscription even do these days? lol)
    Vantus runes!

    I made a good choice for staying inscription, I promise! ..

    It's a shame that Shadowlands killed PvE twinking. Still I enjoy the game.
    Endgame: Main, Alt

  6. #6
    you pretty much want to play Classic.

  7. #7
    Id love to see profession take more of teh spotlight again.

    Not sure im liking recepies behind reputation thou given the timegating that is usually assciated with them nowdays. I much prefer them being raredrops from either dungeons or some other outdoor content, an effort similar to that motherlode mount etc.

    A recepie shouldnt be something everyone has in the end by just playing the game normally (becoming exalted isnt really a feat today, its soemthing one gets without even trying), it should be something one actively has to farm to obtain imo.

    Mor eon that note i think we need more obscure crafting mats. The current formula of 1 white 1 green 1 blue and one purple material is super boring and generic. Look at vanilla wow for how to make the hunt for crafting materials interesting, cross profession materials and rare mats like devilsaur leather or Golden pearls. And monster specific things like essence's and elemental earth/fire/air etc..
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2021-08-11 at 12:20 PM.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  8. #8
    So basically how FF14 handles professions, where all are available, all have long lasting items (housing), and all are interconnected. Also each combine is a mini game of sorts.

    Yes they should do this, but it's already being done elsewhere.

  9. #9
    While I like the idea of professions being relevant, I don't really like the way your implementation handles them.

    If you make every piece of gear able to be enchanted and socketed and make the enchantments and gems be able to be just straight stat upgrades, you've essentially just remade the cataclysm gearing system.

    Essentially, what happens is that, under a system like this, getting a piece of gear is less rewarding since it isn't immediately useable. If I get a new piece of gear, there's no point in wearing it unless its gemmed and enchanted. And obviously, everyone will just follow a guide to select the best gems and enchants for each slot.

    All a system like this and the one we had in cata does is make it so that gear isn't immediately useable.

    The other option to this is that only the crafted gear is fully enchantable or socketed. But that means that either I never enchant or gem again after I get raid gear that is better, or if the crafted gear is equivalent to raid gear, I just never want to get gear from raids.

    I think the idea of crafting being more relevant is good, but I think the implementation you have for that idea presented here would not be very fun.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AKCephalopod View Post
    While I like the idea of professions being relevant, I don't really like the way your implementation handles them.

    If you make every piece of gear able to be enchanted and socketed and make the enchantments and gems be able to be just straight stat upgrades, you've essentially just remade the cataclysm gearing system.

    Essentially, what happens is that, under a system like this, getting a piece of gear is less rewarding since it isn't immediately useable. If I get a new piece of gear, there's no point in wearing it unless its gemmed and enchanted. And obviously, everyone will just follow a guide to select the best gems and enchants for each slot.

    All a system like this and the one we had in cata does is make it so that gear isn't immediately useable.

    The other option to this is that only the crafted gear is fully enchantable or socketed. But that means that either I never enchant or gem again after I get raid gear that is better, or if the crafted gear is equivalent to raid gear, I just never want to get gear from raids.

    I think the idea of crafting being more relevant is good, but I think the implementation you have for that idea presented here would not be very fun.
    Interesting take, and you might be right that tons of enchants/gems might be viewed as an annoying obstacle rather than a fun goal to strive for. Let me try and respond to a few of the points:

    • Gear isn't immediately usable on-drop - 2 answers to this. Either it doesn't matter. Does not being to insta-equip the piece of gear and having to wait a few hours really diminish the impact of getting a gear drop that much? Perhaps it does. So onto the better response, which is if you're raiding, ya'll will probably have enchanters/jewelcrafters in the raid. And with the ease of accessing banks/guildBanks/auctionHouse via all those vendor mounts, would it really take any more than 1 minute to enchant/gem out your gear, if you're a truly prepared raider in a decent guild?
    • Everyone will just blindly use the BiS enchants/gems/everything - This is always the case for everything, but not a good enough reason to remove choice from the game. By the logic that something shouldn't exist if it's not BiS, then mages should have their Arcane spec removed, hunters should have Surv removed, etc etc, as they suck for both PvE and PvP and it's just mistake for any competetive player to ever spec them. Yet obviously we all agree that'd be unfun and instead the game should have bad options for the sake of variety, and that Blizzard should make a bit more of an effort to buff the straggling specs. Likewise with gems/enchants.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SlimGloss View Post
    Interesting take, and you might be right that tons of enchants/gems might be viewed as an annoying obstacle rather than a fun goal to strive for. Let me try and respond to a few of the points:

    • Gear isn't immediately usable on-drop - 2 answers to this. Either it doesn't matter. Does not being to insta-equip the piece of gear and having to wait a few hours really diminish the impact of getting a gear drop that much? Perhaps it does. So onto the better response, which is if you're raiding, ya'll will probably have enchanters/jewelcrafters in the raid. And with the ease of accessing banks/guildBanks/auctionHouse via all those vendor mounts, would it really take any more than 1 minute to enchant/gem out your gear, if you're a truly prepared raider in a decent guild?
    • Everyone will just blindly use the BiS enchants/gems/everything - This is always the case for everything, but not a good enough reason to remove choice from the game. By the logic that something shouldn't exist if it's not BiS, then mages should have their Arcane spec removed, hunters should have Surv removed, etc etc, as they suck for both PvE and PvP and it's just mistake for any competetive player to ever spec them. Yet obviously we all agree that'd be unfun and instead the game should have bad options for the sake of variety, and that Blizzard should make a bit more of an effort to buff the straggling specs. Likewise with gems/enchants.
    For the first point, the idea I was trying to get across was that a system like this did exist in Cataclysm and the response I gave was the common complaint about that system. It was a major reason why enchanting and jewelcrafting were scaled back to the level they are today. It felt like a chore, frankly, that the gear was essentially worthless until you went to get the enchant and/or gem you needed to get it to be worthwhile to equip. In fact, raid groups at the time (before lfr, that is) would actually reject you if you weren't fully enchanted and socketed. I'd expect premade groups to do the same if the system returned, like you suggest.

    Addressing the second part of that, yes, it would be easy for an organized guild raid to enchant and socket things. That's not a problem. But what if you're not part of a guild? You play casually and pug normal raids. What then? Are you to expect that random people will give you them enchants or gems you need for your gear when you'll likely never see them again? Or are people supposed to buy them off the auction house? That's a new money sink, especially for someone who's just playing casually and it becomes the chore I talked about above. Or maybe you want then to just change their professions to enchanting and jewelcrafting so they can do it themselves? That actually removes the choice they have from the game since now to play optimally, they need to either have the disposable gold to buy what they need for every new piece of gear they get, or to use two professions that they might not want to.

    Addressing your last point, what I was getting at is the fact that you want it all to be based off of player crafting. So what would happen is that people will only craft the items that are worth the most money, otherwise the time to go farm the materials is wasted. And the things that are worth the most are going to be the ones most people want to buy, which are going to be whatever sims the highest. So the only things on the market for sale will be the gems or enchants that a guide suggests. There won't be any player choice unless you yourself take up enchanting or jewelcrafting because people aren't going to craft and sell things that most people don't want. That's what I mean here. There will be choice, but only if you choose to take the right professions. Otherwise, you'll just have to take whatever people are selling.

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