FFXIV Spoiler thread

[Yarathir]

Zodiark was no longer a threat until someone took control of him, correct? He was pretty much just sitting in his prison holding his Laws in place preventing the Dynamis change from occurring?

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Also, anyone know who Scarmiglione's english VA is? He sound suspiciously like Hermes/Amon or maybe Asahi (its tripping me up a bit because Amon as Fan'daniel possessing Asahi sounds partially like Asahi). But I cant find a credit online, IMDB doesnt have him. It has Golbez, but neither Scarm nor crazy wind lady.

Zodiark was effectively imprisoned until Fandaniel and Zenos broke him out, yes. Even with that, he was basically bereft of a heart, which is why Fandaniel could pilot him. Elidibus was Zodiark's heart, he was Zodiark. What was left after his "death" was basically just a half-mangled meat mech. And yeah, he was kept around for the sole purposes of maintaining the aetheric barrier (while in stasis) that kept the Final Days at bay.

[Xilurm]

Massive spoilers so be careful.

If people are coming out of this 10 year saga thinking that the "main" villain (jokes on you because Meteion isn't the main villain of the saga) was introduced too late then they are doing it wrong. If anyone was the main "villain" it was the Ascians. But they were more akin to Team Rocket, atleast until SHB brought them to the forefront. They did manipulate things, that's true, but each character in the story had their own motivations. Meteion wasn't a problem and would never be a problem as long as the unconscious Zodiark existed. And who made sure that wasn't the case? Fandaniel/Hermes. Who created Meteion in the first place? Hermes did. Meteion was just a product of Hermes' search for answers, and it all spiraled out of control to the point we got to in 1.x. Then the WoL pretty much cleans up the mess one problem at a time. But the thing is, all these problems are all different from each other.

[Grinning Serpent]

Can't say I disagree with most of what you have to say because a lot of it is pretty subjective and I can't exactly dissent against your experience of things. If it no longer appeals to you, I don't think you need to continue playing. It's all about your own enjoyment at the end of it. I had the same with WoW: I continued playing it for a bit for the sake of playing with friends, but in the end, I couldn't even bring myself to do that anymore and unsubbed cold turkey. Do what you need, video games are, at their core, a form of entertainment; if it no longer offers any of that, it's fine to no longer play it.

But I will say that I remain of the opinion that we effectively took care of and addressed Zodiark in 5.3.

Yeah, I am very unlikely to continue playing through to 7.0. Unless it's even less inspired than I'm expecting, I'll probably return one last time after the BLU patch but I don't think I'll return for 7.0 unless it's *really* remarkable.

It's really funny... I gave DF a try and I've been having a lot of fun, so does that make me an "XIV refugee"? lol

Seems like neither company has been able to figure out how to nail the gray area between the extremes the two games represent.

[neik]

That brings up the problem of housing multiple tempered together, they already then have fulfilled one of the two requirements for summoning: faith. Yes sometimes 1 person alone can do it, but that's a rare case, and just gathering more and more of them together is just asking an Ascian or some other tempered who hasn't been captured to just bring some crystals in and them ta da another primal has been summoned.

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The story quite literally tells you that you cannot cure tempering. Do you really think that the group that is trying to save as many people as possible and save the world from every imaginable threat just goes, 'Whoops well we don't want to put in the effort.'

You are also factually wrong about killing the Primal somehow saving its victim. All of us in this thread are obviously trying not to spoil the story for you but you're making it difficult.

You cannot cure Tempering. Killing the Primal doesn't cure you and it doesn't suddenly make it so you can therapy your way out of it. Trust us, we know what we're talking about lol

Sure you think you have a solid authority argument to what appears to be a already well established multi year timeline. Picking Ifrit as an inception where everything followed after, from there you could either choose to put down those people like dogs, or you can work your ass off to save them. Emphasis on working hard, and the fact that you were able to save them, still would not diminish greater threats that you will be facing against in future.

But this conversation is now exhausted, I'm not going to cave in to some weird murderous fetish.

[Auxis]

Sure you think you have a solid authority argument to what appears to be a already well established multi year timeline. Picking Ifrit as an inception where everything followed after, from there you could either choose to put down those people like dogs, or you can work your ass off to save them. Emphasis on working hard, and the fact that you were able to save them, still would not diminish greater threats that you will be facing against in future.

But this conversation is now exhausted, I'm not going to cave in to some weird murderous fetish.

They are brainwashed with no way to reverse it. The brainwashing includes an imprinted desire to serve a deity and try to summon it.
You leave a bunch of people like that alive in a prison or pit, something bad is going to happen whether it be a minor summon like an egi or god forbid a full summon if they are supplied enough aether.
And it's not a fetish. The city-states are making a difficult choice between the needs of the few and the needs if the many - and they've ben dealing with this for years. If they had another way they would have done it by now.

[Aucald]

Massive spoilers so be careful.

If people are coming out of this 10 year saga thinking that the "main" villain (jokes on you because Meteion isn't the main villain of the saga) was introduced too late then they are doing it wrong. If anyone was the main "villain" it was the Ascians. But they were more akin to Team Rocket, atleast until SHB brought them to the forefront. They did manipulate things, that's true, but each character in the story had their own motivations. Meteion wasn't a problem and would never be a problem as long as the unconscious Zodiark existed. And who made sure that wasn't the case? Fandaniel/Hermes. Who created Meteion in the first place? Hermes did. Meteion was just a product of Hermes' search for answers, and it all spiraled out of control to the point we got to in 1.x. Then the WoL pretty much cleans up the mess one problem at a time. But the thing is, all these problems are all different from each other.

It's a bit more nuanced than that, I would say. Hermes/Fandaniel acted more or less unilaterally in allowing Meteion and her sisters to enact the Final Days of Etheirys - so blaming the Ascians (both in their pre-Sundering and post-Sundering incarnations) for his actions would be, in my view, spreading the brush pretty wide. Hades, Venat, and Hythlodaeus attempted to stop Hermes from letting Meteion go and attempted to recall the other Meteia from their ill-fated mission across the stars, only to have their minds wiped (save for Venat). Both Hermes and Meteion fulfill the role of more tragic villains, allowing their passions and in the case of Meteion their severe psychological damage to overcome their reason and perform monstrous acts because of it.

In a way, I'd argue FF14 doesn't really have a single unifying villain except perhaps for Zenos, whose sole excuse for his monstrous actions is obvious insanity. The Ascians, Meteion, and Hermes/Fandaniel are all in the more tragic mode. If anything, perhaps the true villain of FF14 is the vagaries of fate and circumstance, and the cruelty of an indifferent universe without any underlying force that preserves life or promotes essential kindness. If the universe wasn't a cosmic horrorshow in the FF14 story, the Meteia wouldn't have lost their minds and decided to end it all as opposed to enduring further trauma in the form of visiting dead worlds or civilizations poised on the edge of omnicide.

[Ghost of Cow]

But this conversation is now exhausted, I'm not going to cave in to some weird murderous fetish.

It's only exhausted because your entire point has been based off of your headcanon and incorrect assumptions. You simply want to be right, regardless of what the story says, and no one can actually have a conversation with someone who's going to do that.

[Myradin]

Boy, howdy, do I love my stakes.

Like when 90% of the results of ARR's finale are basically undone in Heavensward because Raubahn is still alive and we save him, then find out that Nanamo never died because Lolorito was so high IQ that he swapped out Teledji's legitimate poison for a milder poison that basically just puts her in a deep slumber. And then the elementals just help us pluck Y'shtola from the lifestream. Oh and Thancred is practically unmarred and was just living his best hobo life for a bit. And "Yda" and Papalymo are just doing their own stuff. Oh, and Alisaie gets poisoned but it's okay because the chirurgeons will take care of it and she can just sleep it off. And Urianger didn't betray us, he was just triple-crossing for our own sake.

Honestly how the ending of ARR was followed up on annoys me to no end. Like after slogging through ARR which is already bad as is, the ending of ARR feels rewarding because it feels like something actually happens.

But NOPE al just tossed under the rug. Feels like you could cut out large chunks of ARR and HWs follow up to it and the plot would just become more consistent.

Or Shadowbringers, where Y'shtola gets another death fakeout and Thancred gets to share in the joy by having a moment that paints him as being on death's door but later he's just sitting around chilling, a little scuffed up. "Yeah bros, they just, you know, found me in time and saved me hehe."

I want to say it was justto show off just how powerful Emet was.

[MsSideEye]

Honestly how the ending of ARR was followed up on annoys me to no end. Like after slogging through ARR which is already bad as is, the ending of ARR feels rewarding because it feels like something actually happens.

But NOPE al just tossed under the rug. Feels like you could cut out large chunks of ARR and HWs follow up to it and the plot would just become more consistent.

Let's be entirely fair, here. At that point they were still recovering from the train wreck that was original ARR and were doing as much clean up as possible to make sure things worked, much less got better. We needed a reason for us to move onto Heavensward, and that's all the end of ARR was. They didn't care if it 'mattered' in the end, it's what got us to where we are today.

It's a lot like how people are upset about the fact that Garlamald fell in on itself between Stormblood and Endwalker. Like, yeah, let's just ignore the fact that a spoiled princes who cares about nothing but fighting just offed his old man and the fact that your civilization is known for in fighting when the old ruler dies as established fact. Instead, whine about the fact that we didn't get a to see the second rate villains from ARR in their fighting prime on their home turf instead about worrying about the ascian whose wanting to bring REALITY down around our heads!

[Ghost of Cow]

Let's be entirely fair, here. At that point they were still recovering from the train wreck that was original ARR and were doing as much clean up as possible to make sure things worked, much less got better. We needed a reason for us to move onto Heavensward, and that's all the end of ARR was. They didn't care if it 'mattered' in the end, it's what got us to where we are today.

It's a lot like how people are upset about the fact that Garlamald fell in on itself between Stormblood and Endwalker. Like, yeah, let's just ignore the fact that a spoiled princes who cares about nothing but fighting just offed his old man and the fact that your civilization is known for in fighting when the old ruler dies as established fact. Instead, whine about the fact that we didn't get a to see the second rate villains from ARR in their fighting prime on their home turf instead about worrying about the ascian whose wanting to bring REALITY down around our heads!

It was less "between Stormblood and Endwalker" and more like "Between the start of Endwalker and 20% of the way through Endwalker".

Yeah, we had beaten the Empire back on several occasions and Zenos killed Varis in post-ShB, but the Empire was still pretty fine even after that. It wasn't until Anima that it actually truly fell apart, and that was basically all off-camera.

[Yarathir]

Do you guys seriously not get Garlean fatigue?

Garleans were central in ARR, took a backseat but were still present in HW, played a humongous part in Stormblood and even played a fairly big role in Shadowbringers through Bozja and the stuff with Estinien and Gaius.

[MsSideEye]

It was less "between Stormblood and Endwalker" and more like "Between the start of Endwalker and 20% of the way through Endwalker".

Yeah, we had beaten the Empire back on several occasions and Zenos killed Varis in post-ShB, but the Empire was still pretty fine even after that. It wasn't until Anima that it actually truly fell apart, and that was basically all off-camera.

Despite the fact that I've got you on ignore, I've gotta respond to this.

The Empire has been falling apart since Stormblood. The death of the crowned prince was not only a major political blow, but they also had to deal with the fact that they had lost control over Doma and the rest of the East, lost Ala Migo, and the fact that there were uprisings within Garlean empire after the death of said prince. Both because someone else is wanting to take over the throne because Varis has no heir now on top of losing some of the biggest pieces of their conquered world ever since he took over.

That's not even going on the fact there's a peaceful faction in Garlemald now that's gained strong political power now, the fact that half the empire doesn't trust the throne when Zenos comes back because of rumors of him being a demon, and then... oh yeah, Zenos killed the current ruler of the empire and basically let the wolves have the scraps of power that were dropping down from the ruler that actually gave a shit to someone who only bothers with anything beneath him if it gets him another fight with the Warrior of Light.

The Garlean Empire has been a state of falling apart/dying since the end of Stormblood. Saying so otherwise kinda ignores everything that's been going on for like... half the game now.

Do you guys seriously not get Garlean fatigue?

Garleans were central in ARR, took a backseat but were still present in HW, played a humongous part in Stormblood and even played a fairly big role in Shadowbringers through Bozja and the stuff with Estinien and Gaius.

Honestly, I never found them all that interesting in the first place. I was more making fun of the people whining about how Garlemald didn't get to be this sprawling metropolis and how we're basically seeing the ruins of a fallen empire when we get there. And here I'm like... 'You were expecting something else?'

[Ghost of Cow]

Do you guys seriously not get Garlean fatigue?

Garleans were central in ARR, took a backseat but were still present in HW, played a humongous part in Stormblood and even played a fairly big role in Shadowbringers through Bozja and the stuff with Estinien and Gaius.

Well, I get Eorzean fatigue sometimes too, those smug do-gooders!

In all seriousness though, I dunno why some of you would fault people for wishing they'd seen more story content. It's not exactly a damning review or attack on the game to say you wanted more of something!

[Auxis]

Finished leveling up RDM to 90 (my fav dps) so I continued the MSQ. Got up to, and currently sitting in queue for, Mount Ordeals.

Gotta say, I'm a bit glad my concern about us letting some rando Barbariccia voidsent stay at the village after her death without Zero's consent was unfounded and seemed to be a red herring if anything.

Throughout the Garlemald part of the patch MSQ, I was wondering if I skipped over whether Jullus knew who Zero was and whether he was about to flip out at any given moment when he learnt that she was partly responsible for Zenos' powers in EW.
Also refreshing what they did with Zero. It's like watching an amnesiac slowly relearn all these feelings and emotions.

Anyway, I've been in this queue for 21 minutes now so I'ma give up on it and go play WoW for a bit. Also bit salty with myself, I was fixing to make my RDM Mandeville weapon. Accidentally bought 2 of the next stage items rather than the 1st stage items that I needed and I don't think I can refund them T_T

[Lord Kragan]

It was less "between Stormblood and Endwalker" and more like "Between the start of Endwalker and 20% of the way through Endwalker".

Yeah, we had beaten the Empire back on several occasions and Zenos killed Varis in post-ShB, but the Empire was still pretty fine even after that. It wasn't until Anima that it actually truly fell apart, and that was basically all off-camera.

Wow, this is an incredibly dishonest statement:



The garlean empire has 14 legions, right?

1) The 14th gets crushed in 2.0 and 2.x

2) The 6th gets *decimated* alongisde the new flagship 3.0 and 3.x. The commander dies.

3) The 12th gets shattered in 4.0 and 2 whole provinces are lost. There's also widespread unrest, as shown in the events of the expac and the raids. The empire is not in a fine spot.

4) The 4th and the 7th are destroyed in the course of 5.x and another 2 provinces are lost.

5) The civil war starts in early 5.x and it ends up involving no less than 3 legions duking it out in the capital... there's only 9 legions left at this point, and that assumes no other general is doing like gabranth.

The story gives us ample information about the rapid deterioration of the garlean empire. Arguing 'it's just a small segment of endwalker' veers into bald faced lie territory, because the facts are not there, at all.

[Aucald]

Yeah, we had beaten the Empire back on several occasions and Zenos killed Varis in post-ShB, but the Empire was still pretty fine even after that. It wasn't until Anima that it actually truly fell apart, and that was basically all off-camera.

Are you sure you played Endwalker? Part of the MSQ for Endwalker concerns what is essentially a mission of mercy into the tattered ruin of Garlemald itself, in which we see the results of Zenos and Fandaniel's actions, from the ruins of the capital city to the huddled remnant of the 1st Legion holed in an old subway which serves as the cornerstone of what is probably one of FF14's darkest and most memorable stories.

[Ghost of Cow]

Are you sure you played Endwalker? Part of the MSQ for Endwalker concerns what is essentially a mission of mercy into the tattered ruin of Garlemald itself, in which we see the results of Zenos and Fandaniel's actions, from the ruins of the capital city to the huddled remnant of the 1st Legion holed in an old subway which serves as the cornerstone of what is probably one of FF14's darkest and most memorable stories.

Yes which...was caused by Anima.

I don't see where what you said conflicts with that?

[Aucald]

Yes which...was caused by Anima.

I don't see where what you said conflicts with that?

The part where you said the empire falling apart occurs off-screen. Anima and the creation of the Tower of Babil destroyed the capital pretty quickly, all in all; and while that's an event we don't witness directly we're definitely there to observe the true fall of Garlemald, which is the mass-enthrallment of its people save for the few refugees we're able to secure.

[Ghost of Cow]

The part where you said the empire falling apart occurs off-screen. Anima and the creation of the Tower of Babil destroyed the capital pretty quickly, all in all; and while that's an event we don't witness directly we're definitely there to observe the true fall of Garlemald, which is the mass-enthrallment of its people save for the few refugees we're able to secure.

Oh, you meant the off-camera part. Been a while since that discussion, I lost the context!

In any case, the actual event mostly does happen off-screen. We come in after and see the mess, but at that point the empire is basically gone. No one signs the paperwork - and there are a few holdouts not wanting to accept it - but it's finished.

This isn't really a good or bad thing, I'm not saying I wanted more fighting against Garlemald. The point was just that the Empire itself was still a power right up until Zenos and Fandaniel hooked a primal up to a broadcast tower.

[Aucald]

In any case, the actual event mostly does happen off-screen. We come in after and see the mess, but at that point the empire is basically gone. No one signs the paperwork - and there are a few holdouts not wanting to accept it - but it's finished.

This isn't really a good or bad thing, I'm not saying I wanted more fighting against Garlemald. The point was just that the Empire itself was still a power right up until Zenos and Fandaniel hooked a primal up to a broadcast tower.

If you define the empire solely by its ruler, it died back in ShB when Varis was assassinated. Zenos had no real interest in "signing the paperwork" as it were or running the government in any sense that would've left Garlemald as a functioning state. I considered the empire truly broken when its last untempered general, Quintus Cinna, commits suicide out of shame and despair as opposed to asking the Ilsabard Contingent for much-needed help and resources for him and his beleaguered remnant forces. A stronger and braver man could've rallied the remaining sane Garleans and, with help, led the charge to defeat Zenos and Fandaniel and reclaim their lands. Jullus sort of takes his place, but I'd say Garldemald-that-was essentially died along with Cinna.