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  1. #341
    Dreadlord BreathTaker's Avatar
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    I have a solution for M+ leavers!
    behold:
    1. Penalty: Lever gets a massive penalty - like no M+ allowed for the rest of the week
    2.1 Compensation for the group so it may continue: A NPC come to help instead of the player who left.

    AI may not be smart enough to compensate though. If blizz cannot make a smart AI player, than:
    In case a leaver is a DPSer - add a NPC that mimics another DPS in the group, like a multiboxer copy.
    In case a leaver is a Tank or a healer - add a NPC tank or healer that is twice as tough/healing twice as good, to compensate for it's stupidity

    2.2 Alternatively: When someone leaves - stop the timer and allow a 2-3 hour window during when you may find a replacement.

    3. If someone is ruining the game purposely but does not leave due to the penalty, he may be kicked without penalty to him, but the group may call for help of NPC.
    Such help is called when everyone agrees to use it and has a per-character cooldown of 1-2 week length so it's not abused. If anyone has help on CD - no help.

    I'm not sure the solution is perfect but just showing that something has to be attempted to help M+ players! (i'm not doing M+ myself )

  2. #342
    There needs to be an option in raider io to leave feedback or a review +1 or -1 so we can see who the a holes are in mythic +. If you leave ppl can give you a -1 and if you feel a player is solid you can give them a +1 so when someone coming in with a 2k raider io with a -20 I know to steer clear of them.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemic13 View Post
    Why do m+ keys have to be timed? Why are groups locked? Eveything doesn't have to be an eSport. Blizzard has created an environment where m+ is hyper competitive especially in higher keys.
    The timer doesn't mean anything anymore outside what happens to the key at the end of the run. You still get gear, you still get M+ score for finishing the run, its barely different then the clock on your wall telling you the time of day. If the timer was not visible in anyway what would change for you? The arbitrary pressure you are setting on yourself? Cause your rewards won't change, people wanting to keep a group moving forward wouldn't change either.

    Why are the groups locked? Because before its even a problem and happens 1 time, Blizzard stopped 3-4 man stacked grps from kicking the pugs at the last boss of a key and bringing undergeared friends to reap all the rewards.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by xxdprussxx View Post
    There needs to be an option in raider io to leave feedback or a review +1 or -1 so we can see who the a holes are in mythic +. If you leave ppl can give you a -1 and if you feel a player is solid you can give them a +1 so when someone coming in with a 2k raider io with a -20 I know to steer clear of them.
    Will just be abused. Players only really leave failed runs so I don't see the issue. Your not going to ever be empowered to hold people hostage for your weekly chest because you under performed or put together a terrible group.

  5. #345
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemic13 View Post
    Why do m+ keys have to be timed?
    Because it creates a challenge on a basis of being efficient with cooldowns you have versus having unlimited time to use all your cooldowns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endemic13 View Post
    Why are groups locked?
    To prevent more abuse. Think about it, a group goes all the way to the last boss then drops 1 player so they can carry their "friend" to the finish line.


    Quote Originally Posted by Endemic13 View Post
    Blizzard has created an environment where m+ is hyper competitive especially in higher keys.
    I mean... raiding is hyper competitive, see R2WF. PvP can be competitive. So no reason why M+ wouldn't be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BreathTaker View Post
    I have a solution for M+ leavers!
    Not really.


    Quote Originally Posted by BreathTaker View Post
    1. Penalty: Lever gets a massive penalty - like no M+ allowed for the rest of the week
    So instead of leaving, the bad actor decides to just wait around (but not completely afk) until the timer expires. Or instead of leaving first, the bad actor decides to troll the other players by "accidentally" pulling extra packs or doing something else that causes a wipe over and over again.



    Quote Originally Posted by BreathTaker View Post
    2.2 Alternatively: When someone leaves - stop the timer and allow a 2-3 hour window during when you may find a replacement.
    So then what prevents a group from kicking out the 5th player at the last boss to bring in their friend carry? yeah that's not going to be abused at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BreathTaker View Post
    3. If someone is ruining the game purposely but does not leave due to the penalty, he may be kicked without penalty to him, but the group may call for help of NPC.
    Such help is called when everyone agrees to use it and has a per-character cooldown of 1-2 week length so it's not abused. If anyone has help on CD - no help.
    So instead of a very simple thing of just making your own groups or playing with people that you know/trust, you want to make a super elaborate system that probably won't work or will be abused to "optimize" player loot.

    I think I'll pass.
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  6. #346
    Id much rather a system be implemented that gives players the choice to vote to end the dungeon, and if they just ditch without the vote being initiated then they incur a 2-4hr mythic suspension. There would also need to be a shorter penalty if they get d/ced so they couldn’t abuse it but wouldnt suffer if it was legit.

  7. #347
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Id much rather a system be implemented that gives players the choice to vote to end the dungeon, and if they just ditch without the vote being initiated then they incur a 2-4hr mythic suspension. There would also need to be a shorter penalty if they get d/ced so they couldn’t abuse it but wouldnt suffer if it was legit.
    Again, 1st problem is how do you regulate the voting so that it doesn't cause degenerate gameplay? Sure we can agree that if the run is going poorly we should vote to end but what if it's a recoverable death(s) or a bad pull on 1 trash pack? Where does Blizzard draw the line? Leaving that line to the players to decide is bad because "optimization" will cause players to believe that if you aren't at X point a Y time then it's better to vote to reset to increase chances of success.

    And if there is no key depletion on voting then the system will be abused frequently in pursuit of that "optimization".

    The second problem revolves around DC. How does the game determine a true DC? And how would you prevent players from "forcing" a DC? It only takes a few clicks to disable your network adapter and you get a simple "DC". Either the system would be very lenient which would lead to massive abuse or the system would be very punishing which would further detract from players wanting to play WoW.
    ---
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  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by BreathTaker View Post
    I have a solution for M+ leavers!
    behold:
    1. Penalty: Lever gets a massive penalty - like no M+ allowed for the rest of the week
    2.1 Compensation for the group so it may continue: A NPC come to help instead of the player who left.

    AI may not be smart enough to compensate though. If blizz cannot make a smart AI player, than:
    In case a leaver is a DPSer - add a NPC that mimics another DPS in the group, like a multiboxer copy.
    In case a leaver is a Tank or a healer - add a NPC tank or healer that is twice as tough/healing twice as good, to compensate for it's stupidity

    2.2 Alternatively: When someone leaves - stop the timer and allow a 2-3 hour window during when you may find a replacement.

    3. If someone is ruining the game purposely but does not leave due to the penalty, he may be kicked without penalty to him, but the group may call for help of NPC.
    Such help is called when everyone agrees to use it and has a per-character cooldown of 1-2 week length so it's not abused. If anyone has help on CD - no help.

    I'm not sure the solution is perfect but just showing that something has to be attempted to help M+ players! (i'm not doing M+ myself )
    or alterantively stop being bad so people will stop having to leave bad groups to not carry people who shouldnt be there in first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xxdprussxx View Post
    There needs to be an option in raider io to leave feedback or a review +1 or -1 so we can see who the a holes are in mythic +. If you leave ppl can give you a -1 and if you feel a player is solid you can give them a +1 so when someone coming in with a 2k raider io with a -20 I know to steer clear of them.
    the irony when you belive that the person who is leaving deserve -1 and you ofc didnt mention -1s for people who perform like s...t there forcing others to leave because run wouldnt be timed.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It’s purely abusive behavior that should be banned, because 99% of the time they do it because 1 out of 5 failed so they abuse 3 out of 5 there without deserving it.
    I recently joined a +10 group and I did 5 time the damage as every single player in this group, they died in trash packs, do you really think I want to waste my time? It took ages to get to the first boss. No thanks, some people just invite people to get boosted.

  10. #350
    I would lower the difficulty. Remove the timer etc.
    And make groups replaceable.
    Just let every boss have a chance to drop loot so it won't be abused much.

    Then bring challenge mode back with purely cosmetic gear.
    Make mythic raid flex etc. Make the game less toxic.

    The community is really toxic and its mostly blizzards fault.

    The last time I came back to the game was to do some multiboxing for fun. That's banned now.

    I doubt I come back unless Blizzard gives me a good reason.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeEU View Post
    I would lower the difficulty. Remove the timer etc.
    And make groups replaceable.
    Just let every boss have a chance to drop loot so it won't be abused much.

    Then bring challenge mode back with purely cosmetic gear.
    Make mythic raid flex etc. Make the game less toxic.

    The community is really toxic and its mostly blizzards fault.

    The last time I came back to the game was to do some multiboxing for fun. That's banned now.

    I doubt I come back unless Blizzard gives me a good reason.
    Everything you listed is pure trash. Just because you are bad at the game doesn't mean difficulty should be removed. 100% of these complaints are bad/anti social players who try to play higher than their skill and get rightfully shit on.

  12. #352
    Nothing about leaving a pug group in a video game is abuse. Smh

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by BreathTaker View Post
    I have a solution for M+ leavers!
    behold:
    1. Penalty: Lever gets a massive penalty - like no M+ allowed for the rest of the week
    2.1 Compensation for the group so it may continue: A NPC come to help instead of the player who left.

    AI may not be smart enough to compensate though. If blizz cannot make a smart AI player, than:
    In case a leaver is a DPSer - add a NPC that mimics another DPS in the group, like a multiboxer copy.
    In case a leaver is a Tank or a healer - add a NPC tank or healer that is twice as tough/healing twice as good, to compensate for it's stupidity

    2.2 Alternatively: When someone leaves - stop the timer and allow a 2-3 hour window during when you may find a replacement.

    3. If someone is ruining the game purposely but does not leave due to the penalty, he may be kicked without penalty to him, but the group may call for help of NPC.
    Such help is called when everyone agrees to use it and has a per-character cooldown of 1-2 week length so it's not abused. If anyone has help on CD - no help.

    I'm not sure the solution is perfect but just showing that something has to be attempted to help M+ players! (i'm not doing M+ myself )

    Why is every solution that people ever come up with to this non-existent issue 10000 times worse than even the worst case outcome for the present case?

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
    Why is every solution that people ever come up with to this non-existent issue 10000 times worse than even the worst case outcome for the present case?
    The people complaining are bad players. Bad players want good players to be held hostage to carry them. That's why every solution is "perma ban them if they don't carry me"

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
    Why is every solution that people ever come up with to this non-existent issue 10000 times worse than even the worst case outcome for the present case?
    All it'd take to make it slightly better is an official, visible stat of % of runs dropped, to any reason at all. No penalty, just a simple raw number. At the least, it would discourage people like the self-important tank from several pages before to destroy keys, because those mean mean players don't want to invite his alts. Seeing a number like that, you can decide for yourself if you want him in your group or not. Could also reward people who tend to stay even after timer expires.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    All it'd take to make it slightly better is an official, visible stat of % of runs dropped, to any reason at all. No penalty, just a simple raw number. At the least, it would discourage people like the self-important tank from several pages before to destroy keys, because those mean mean players don't want to invite his alts. Seeing a number like that, you can decide for yourself if you want him in your group or not. Could also reward people who tend to stay even after timer expires.
    so good players would be forced to cary bad players just to not have bad score - got it

    all you want is a free carry

    want a carry ? buy a boost - plenty of people selling them 24/7

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    so good players would be forced to cary bad players just to not have bad score - got it
    all you want is a free carry
    want a carry ? buy a boost - plenty of people selling them 24/7
    No, I suggest no such thing. Actually, if there is a general consensus among good players that bad runs should be dropped, most of the good players would have similar leaver %, so they wouldn't mind yours, right?
    Now, if your leaver % is 2x or 3x of theirs, that begs the question why...
    In essence, a stat like that would change nothing among players who think in a similar way. And you want to play with players who think in a similar way, right? So where's the problem? No penalty, just a single simple number. If you're afraid of that number, maybe your conscience isn't quite clear man If it is, you'd have nothing to worry about.
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2021-08-19 at 10:25 AM.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    All it'd take to make it slightly better is an official, visible stat of % of runs dropped, to any reason at all. No penalty, just a simple raw number. At the least, it would discourage people like the self-important tank from several pages before to destroy keys, because those mean mean players don't want to invite his alts. Seeing a number like that, you can decide for yourself if you want him in your group or not. Could also reward people who tend to stay even after timer expires.
    That number would also have to (somehow) include # of those runs that were left due to absolute mouth breathing donkeys that do less dps than healers, or morons that face pull 6 packs and wipe the group.

    Show the number of left runs, but also show the players that caused the run to be over. Make those trash cans name red or something so everyone will know they are dumpsters.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    That number would also have to (somehow) include # of those runs that were left due to absolute mouth breathing donkeys that do less dps than healers, or morons that face pull 6 packs and wipe the group.

    Show the number of left runs, but also show the players that caused the run to be over. Make those trash cans name red or something so everyone will know they are dumpsters.
    I mean, is there really a need? An average run is an average run, man. Or are you afraid you're getting all the bad runs while I'm getting all the good ones? The % should become visible after a certain number of runs (dropping your first in a season and having 100% leaver wouldn't look nice), but other than that, average is average. If your leaver % is notably higher than the % of an average player, then again, it begs the question why.

    EDIT: And anyway, like I wrote above: If good players share this mindset (of dropping mistimed or bad runs in general), then you'd have no problems getting into good groups with them, since they wouldn't mind your high leaver %, right? Only "bad groups" (of players who force the run till the end and have low leaver %) would avoid you, which is a win-win for everybody.
    Now, if good players do not drop mistimed runs, that could be a problem for some... But most people claim they do, so /shrug.
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2021-08-19 at 10:39 AM.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    I mean, is there really a need? An average run is an average run, man. Or are you afraid you're getting all the bad runs while I'm getting all the good ones? The % should become visible after a certain number of runs (dropping your first in a season and having 100% leaver wouldn't look nice), but other than that, average is average. If your leaver % is notably higher than the % of an average player, then again, it begs the question why.

    EDIT: And anyway, like I wrote above: If good players share this mindset (of dropping mistimed or bad runs in general), then you'd have no problems getting into good groups with them, since they wouldn't mind your high leaver %, right? Only "bad groups" (of players who force the run till the end and have low leaver %) would avoid you, which is a win-win for everybody.
    Now, if good players do not drop mistimed runs, that could be a problem for some... But most people claim they do, so /shrug.
    really good players play with their guilds and drop next to no runs.

    hat you suggest would make lfg a liing hell for good players who cannot commit to guild schedules.

    all because you want good players to carry bad players.

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