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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamburger View Post
    To be honest, I just report leavers (without a justified reason, like an emergency) as griefing and then block them.
    sadly you cant block them unless you whisper them or they have said something in chat........

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    I can't say I agree with the idea of investing a significant amount of time in a doomed run. A lot of wow players want a never say day clear a key bit matter what with levels of wiping that would never be considered acceptable pre mythic plus.

    I don't see the value in being forced to wait out a clearly doomed run I rather just move on.
    its because of clear conflict of interest

    you as good player dont want to waste time boosting bad players so you leave

    they as bad players dont want to waste time by having to remake group and start again and want to get boosted

    ofc they will do anything possible to force you into boosting them

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Why? Was the run advertised as going for completion regardless of time? Was the key marked as Push/Timing? Why did the group leader make that comp? What factors lead to the recruitment of those people?

    Again we can go back the bottom line, why should someone (anyone) stay longer than they have to once they have determined that anymore investment of their time would be wasted? Sure your own time is valuable to you, but other players also share that same view. So in their minds, if their time is better served dropping this group for another, who are you to say "no you can't do that"?

    If you want more successful PuGs (especially in M+) then be up front about the goals of the group and the skill/knowledge of the players before starting the key. Make sure everyone is in agreement of the goals and acceptance of skill/knowledge so everyone knows what they are getting into. Anything short of that, and it's entirely the fault of the group leader for not doing their due diligence in forming the group.
    yes ive stated in the tool and be4 i started the run that its just for completion to read i shouldn't be penalised for other peoples inability or unwillingness to read. i have noticed that people don't read that's in the advertisement at all i'll give you an example i had made a grp on my bear for spires 12 and still lacked hero so i put in the title need hero and i kid you not the 1st 3 applicants apon listing were as follows in this order a warrior a ret pala and a dh.

    and when we get to the last boss with 3 mins left a dps thinks we aren't going to make it and leaves we were 12 secs over the timer

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    sadly you cant block them unless you whisper them or they have said something in chat........
    Ofc you can ignore people without these using the chat first.
    Type: /ignore Name-Server

  5. #505
    This is a two way problem so its not as easy as just punnishing half of the problem.

    When you enter into a m+ its usually with a pre-existing arrangement.

    If you sign up for a 15+ dungeon the + implies its on time. So when people dont meet the requirements, or enough goes wrong, people will probably leave.

    There are people who agree with this pov and want all runs to finish no matter if they are timed or not and there are people who are only there for the on time rating.

    Unless blizzard starts supporting the lfg tool with "on time" vs "just finnish" check boxes this problem wont be fixed.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    Ofc you can ignore people without these using the chat first.
    Type: /ignore Name-Server
    i tried that 90% of the time it just comes up with 0 players found sadly.....

  7. #507
    Some of the takes in this thread are just baffling.

    There should be no penalty, never mind a massive penalty, for people leaving a M+ group, regardless if it is "rage quitting" or not.

    If the run is not going as expected (based on the group's intentions when you joined), leaving the group is acceptable. If the run is frustrating for the player, leaving the group is acceptable. If the group is toxic in any way, leaving the group is acceptable.

    This is a game, folks. This is not work. This is not an esports league. This is not an organization. This is a game. If you are no longer having fun in a game, removing yourself from the activity is not a degenerate behavior.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli85 View Post
    Some of the takes in this thread are just baffling.

    There should be no penalty, never mind a massive penalty, for people leaving a M+ group, regardless if it is "rage quitting" or not.

    If the run is not going as expected (based on the group's intentions when you joined), leaving the group is acceptable. If the run is frustrating for the player, leaving the group is acceptable. If the group is toxic in any way, leaving the group is acceptable.

    This is a game, folks. This is not work. This is not an esports league. This is not an organization. This is a game. If you are no longer having fun in a game, removing yourself from the activity is not a degenerate behavior.
    i completely disagree with this if i list a grp stating in the title that its a vault run and some1 leaves the instant we wipe or the timers going out, imo they should be penalised and heavily and don't give me any crap about them not having the time, IF THEY DONT HAVE TIME, THE SHOULDN'T JOIN OR APPPLY! its not my job to baby people that wont read the listing. if the cant or wont read it that's not my fault or problem its theirs

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli85 View Post
    Some of the takes in this thread are just baffling.

    There should be no penalty, never mind a massive penalty, for people leaving a M+ group, regardless if it is "rage quitting" or not.

    If the run is not going as expected (based on the group's intentions when you joined), leaving the group is acceptable. If the run is frustrating for the player, leaving the group is acceptable. If the group is toxic in any way, leaving the group is acceptable.

    This is a game, folks. This is not work. This is not an esports league. This is not an organization. This is a game. If you are no longer having fun in a game, removing yourself from the activity is not a degenerate behavior.
    I mean broadly, sure. But if you agree to do a group thing with other people there is (or should be) a basic covenant that you don't want to waste their time, and that they shouldn't waste yours. So leaving if you have an emergency or because the key is falling apart is all well and good, but yeeting off because you lost interest halfway through is just douchey imo.

    That said, they can't (and shouldn't) police this. Any cure would be worse than the disease.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  10. #510
    Wouldn't a solution be to add some kind of setting for what difficulty level you want 1-30 for example and simply remove the keystone system?

    It seems that having difficulty be a risked resource is the cause of most of the friction.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    i completely disagree with this if i list a grp stating in the title that its a vault run and some1 leaves the instant we wipe or the timers going out, imo they should be penalised and heavily and don't give me any crap about them not having the time, IF THEY DONT HAVE TIME, THE SHOULDN'T JOIN OR APPPLY! its not my job to baby people that wont read the listing. if the cant or wont read it that's not my fault or problem its theirs
    There are two sides to to this hypothetical vault run: group wipe and timer going out. For the latter, when you join a vault run group, there is an explicit notion that it may not be timed, so leaving for that reason and that reason alone is crummy. The former, however, is not the same. When your group wipes, it's easy to tell what went wrong and why. If I see incompetence from that wipe, it's a clear signal that the rest of the run is going to be ... taxing. In this hypothetical, I didn't sign up for a wipefest, so leaving is completely acceptable, regardless of perceived hurt feelings or whatever else.

    The problem with your take here is you're reading too narrowly into the reason why someone leaves. I may join your group agreeing to an untimed vault run, but that doesn't mean I agreed to wipe repeatedly with subpar players.

    Most of all: if something is no longer fun, coercing people to stay is really, really bad. It doesn't foster good relationships, both with other players and the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    I mean broadly, sure. But if you agree to do a group thing with other people there is (or should be) a basic covenant that you don't want to waste their time, and that they shouldn't waste yours. So leaving if you have an emergency or because the key is falling apart is all well and good, but yeeting off because you lost interest halfway through is just douchey imo.

    That said, they can't (and shouldn't) police this. Any cure would be worse than the disease.
    More or less agree, though I wouldn't equate "losing interest" in the same way of not having fun. They can certainly intersect, but if I simply lost interest, and there is no issue with the group otherwise, that is definitely on me, and if I leave in that hypothetical scenario I would certainly be in the wrong.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli85 View Post
    There are two sides to to this hypothetical vault run: group wipe and timer going out. For the latter, when you join a vault run group, there is an explicit notion that it may not be timed, so leaving for that reason and that reason alone is crummy. The former, however, is not the same. When your group wipes, it's easy to tell what went wrong and why. If I see incompetence from that wipe, it's a clear signal that the rest of the run is going to be ... taxing. In this hypothetical, I didn't sign up for a wipefest, so leaving is completely acceptable, regardless of perceived hurt feelings or whatever else.

    The problem with your take here is you're reading too narrowly into the reason why someone leaves. I may join your group agreeing to an untimed vault run, but that doesn't mean I agreed to wipe repeatedly with subpar players.

    Most of all: if something is no longer fun, coercing people to stay is really, really bad. It doesn't foster good relationships, both with other players and the game
    fair enough but that im describing is what im seeing the majority of times, and im not taking subpar ppl unless i want to make the run easier to deal with for example no 1 with hero is signing up and no 1 with drums, im taking people with a reasonable io and ilvl for that dungeon, which means i wont take someone with 225 ilvl and 200 score to a 12 even if its a vault run i hope that example clears up what im doing with my vault runs.

    personally i think with how the scoring system works 1.1-1.3k and say 230 ilvl is reasonable for a 12 since everyone has their won definition of that's reasonable for what level of content feel free to disagree with this, if i was pushing it i would have higher score requirements

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    fair enough but that im describing is what im seeing the majority of times, and im not taking subpar ppl unless i want to make the run easier to deal with for example no 1 with hero is signing up and no 1 with drums, im taking people with a reasonable io and ilvl for that dungeon, which means i wont take someone with 225 ilvl and 200 score to a 12 even if its a vault run i hope that example clears up what im doing with my vault runs.

    personally i think with how the scoring system works 1.1-1.3k and say 230 ilvl is reasonable for a 12 since everyone has their won definition of that's reasonable for what level of content feel free to disagree with this, if i was pushing it i would have higher score requirements
    Score and iLevel are very misleading. It's all too common to join a group with a reasonable score and ilevel for the dungeon in question, just to find out after the dungeon starts that the group either can't time the dungeon, or it will take a lot of wipes for the untimed completion. This is the largest, most singly frustrating aspect of pugging M+. I don't doubt that you see leavers the majority of times, and I'm sure there are some unhinged rage quitters in there as well, but I reckon most people who leave M+ groups do so because what they expect the group to be doesn't correlate with reality, even when score and ilevel say otherwise.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    There are people who agree with this pov and want all runs to finish no matter if they are timed or not and there are people who are only there for the on time rating.
    Technically, the changes in season 2 allow for a score even if you don't time the key. Granted the score drops the longer the key goes on but a few seconds over the timer on a +17 can be better than a +15 finished exactly on time.

    Some have raised that this is a bad thing because it's inflating the scores of players who can't time keys but make up for it by having higher keys (untimed) completed.
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  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    i tried that 90% of the time it just comes up with 0 players found sadly.....
    If you just write their name, yes, that's what you'll get. You have to actually write their realm. Works 100% of time for me.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli85 View Post
    Score and iLevel are very misleading. It's all too common to join a group with a reasonable score and ilevel for the dungeon in question, just to find out after the dungeon starts that the group either can't time the dungeon, or it will take a lot of wipes for the untimed completion. This is the largest, most singly frustrating aspect of pugging M+. I don't doubt that you see leavers the majority of times, and I'm sure there are some unhinged rage quitters in there as well, but I reckon most people who leave M+ groups do so because what they expect the group to be doesn't correlate with reality, even when score and ilevel say otherwise.
    that mainly happens in lower dungeons though . why it happens ? because a lot of people gain " resonable score" from untimed runs.

    those are people whos score shoule be in relaity 1/3rd of what they have - but because blizzard is desperate to retain players now and gives point for untimed dungeons the sores of many many people are way overinflated.

    which later resoults in stupid wipes and group disbands.

    i suggest trying at least 19-20 bracket - as people there have atm corrct attitudes , knowledge about mechanics and exacution.

    bracket like 13-17 is absolute cesspool atm due to that overinflated scores and people who belive that just because they got score out of untimed runs they are owed to be able to be carried to 10x15 dungeons a week.
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-08-25 at 06:35 AM.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    While I have to agree, I can hardly blame @Nachtigal. That crap can get really infuriating at times.
    You can't blame him because you have the same insecurities as him. You guys are prime content for r/ImTheMainCharacter. Hate it to break it to you kiddos but you aren't as special as mommy told you.

    @Nachtigal

  18. #518
    I think ultimately it just boils down to what kind of person you are. If I can tell the run isn't going the smoothest, I won't throw a fit or flame people because I'm a fairly relaxed/chilled out person and honestly, if the worst scenario I'm facing is a depleted key where I spend 10 minutes more than I need, that's a bullet I'm willing to take for the sake of staying for the group, making sure people get their key done. For the most part I'm just looking to do the key and in time VS out of time isn't the biggest issue, even though doing it in time is nicer ofc.

    Then there's people who play with a "me me me" mindset who couldn't care less about the people behind the screens in the group they are at. They'll leave 5 minutes into a key or fake DC, or start throwing insults around like you're at a daycare. It's just different mindsets people have that's all. I would say it's fair if you make it clear before starting the key that "I really want this in time or not at all" and if everyone in the group signs up for that notion, then leaving if things go terrible should be fine. But I feel like most of the pug keys you see fall under the "We aim to time it but if we don't let's finish it at least" umbrella and I still see a lot of people struggling with that.

  19. #519
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Googles View Post
    You can't blame him because you have the same insecurities as him. You guys are prime content for r/ImTheMainCharacter. Hate it to break it to you kiddos but you aren't as special as mommy told you.

    @Nachtigal
    Gotta love MMOC armchair psychologists
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  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I think ultimately it just boils down to what kind of person you are. If I can tell the run isn't going the smoothest, I won't throw a fit or flame people because I'm a fairly relaxed/chilled out person and honestly, if the worst scenario I'm facing is a depleted key where I spend 10 minutes more than I need, that's a bullet I'm willing to take for the sake of staying for the group, making sure people get their key done.
    That's admirable, but this is a moral virtue, not a moral obligation. It's NICE of you to stay and finish even if it's depleted; but it's not something anyone could REQUIRE of you.

    I'd love for there to be a system in place that discourages people from instantly abandoning keys at the first sign of trouble. However I don't see a practical way of implementing such a system currently, so we're stuck with /shrug, move on. If Blizzard ever comes up with a way to make such a system feasible that'd be great, but for now it is what it is.

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