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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Now it is a lobby based queue sim anyways. But being it a mmorpg of course the coop part should stay.

    I see this “find friends” part everywhere but it’s not so simple. There is no LFF for obvious reasons, it’s not that you can just spam general with “hi I’m looking for friends”. And this is of course amplified depending on how much time you have to invest on the game.

    But it’s an old and recursive topic, it’s probably me not being able to stand group mmorpgs mechanics anymore because my sessions are short and cannot afford to waste half of them waiting to do the content instead of doing it.
    maybe its time for blizzard to introduce "looking for friends " feature then .

    but be honest - most of you dont look for friends - most of you look for people who play on exackly the same level as you do - not lower preferably higher so they can carry you

    what would solve 90 % of toxic issues would be AI playing on level equal to players rating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyarlo View Post
    Remove a dungeon from their vault credit or have them drop score. People leaving dungeons has been getting ridiculous, especially this week (tyran, explosive, bolstering)
    and what all those dungeons had in common ? i mean there was only 1 "the same" person in all of them

    maybe there was a reason why they were leaving.

    thx god next 2 weeks are "push " weeks so we wont see those threads return untill october 6th

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    maybe there was a reason why they were leaving.
    Beats me, we're talking people leaving right after 1 pull of no deaths, no nothing. At this point, is not even a matter of ''I dont want to wastemytime w/ u scrubs lmao''. Don't try to justify their shitty behavior by assuming our team was shit. Funnily enough, this was not even a hard week.

    We also had one leave after 1 wipe on last boss, trash done, well within 6mins of timing it, and he still left after wasting 30mins of everyone's time. Yep, DoS.

    Or better yet, healers fails mechanics, dies to a frontal cone then leaves.

    All in all, if you don't have ''time'' to pug your dungeons, you might as well wait for your friends or build up your own team. We're a team of 3, and it's incredibly disheartening to have our keys ruined by 1 person who seems to get off on wasting people's times. There NEEDS to be some sort of penalty.

  3. #543
    Pandaren Monk Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyarlo View Post
    Remove a dungeon from their vault credit or have them drop score. People leaving dungeons has been getting ridiculous, especially this week (tyran, explosive, bolstering)
    Nope because that kind of punishment just creates degenerative gameplay. Instead of leaving (and players regroup), now you have players who will purposely "abandon" a run without actually leaving. Maybe they just stand there (and shuffle from side to side to prevent AFK timer) or maybe they start pulling extra crap or doing stuff to wipe the group "accidentally".

    Do you really want to suffer through a troll versus just letting them leave?

    Once you attach any kind of penalty to leaving early then players will simply adopt a strategy to cause someone else to leave first so that they can avoid the penalty.

    Reporting systems don't work well because:

    a) false reporting issues
    b) requires additional human work for review to prevent abuse.

    For ABK, they aren't going to want to spend additional resources for a system they think can easily be solved by players doing M+ with people they know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyarlo View Post
    We're a team of 3, and it's incredibly disheartening to have our keys ruined by 1 person who seems to get off on wasting people's times. There NEEDS to be some sort of penalty.
    Or recruit 2 more solid players? Are you telling me that out of the thousands of players of WoW, you can't find 2 more dependable players?

    How about this, the next time you PuG the last two slots... If those players are good, invite them to be friends and say "Hey it was great running with you and if you want, we regularly run M+ on X days. Would it be ok to add you and have you join us from time to time?"
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  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It’s purely abusive behavior that should be banned, because 99% of the time they do it because 1 out of 5 failed so they abuse 3 out of 5 there without deserving it.
    The way you want to play mplus is with a grain of humility, applying to groups you are confident that you can pull your weight off, and it goes same with inviting other people to your key, the higher the key the more unforgiving mistakes are. Take your sweet time, or surely expect the uncertainty. I like that they introduced mythic rating, this removes a lot of disorienting factors and gives you at least some confidence in your team mates.

    Sometimes the key just doesn't work out and quitting is the only option, there is no need for tyrany in punishing these players, brush it off and go again.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Nope because that kind of punishment just creates degenerative gameplay. Instead of leaving (and players regroup), now you have players who will purposely "abandon" a run without actually leaving. Maybe they just stand there (and shuffle from side to side to prevent AFK timer) or maybe they start pulling extra crap or doing stuff to wipe the group "accidentally".

    Do you really want to suffer through a troll versus just letting them leave?

    Once you attach any kind of penalty to leaving early then players will simply adopt a strategy to cause someone else to leave first so that they can avoid the penalty.
    This 100%.

    You cannot police everything in the world. Often the solutions are worse than the problem.

    Thankfully, there is a solution: play with people you know!
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    This 100%.

    You cannot police everything in the world. Often the solutions are worse than the problem.

    Thankfully, there is a solution: play with people you know!
    Unfortunately, that's easier said then done :P

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    this should literaly be banable LOL

    but to op's thing...yeah no,leaving a failed group should not be punishable,its a hostage situation thats actualy way more abusive than what you complain about lol

    pro tip:make some friends
    why? i do this all the time if i see a grp that asks for 2.5k io in a +15 or "big Dicks only" ill join with my main that has 251 ilvl and score and if isee one misake in the route cc/kicks or them doing less dps than me i tell them "thats not a big dick 2,5k io grp" and leave lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
    This would be way to easy to game. Say I'm pushing with my buddies - we got great high Mists key, but wipe to a silly mistake on the first giga pull. 100% what we would do would be fake a DC, or get one of my mates to drop group so we can just go again at the same key level. It would be absurdly easy to abuse.
    and what is there to abuse a third party score? if every one can do it then no one is "abusing" it lol thats some HC raider "-" iq logic, i would love to reset my keys like i was able to on the TR Realm back in bfa when i did trails
    I.O BFA Season 3


  8. #548
    Blizzard should just give you a massive penalty for leaving/disconnecting keys before the timer is off. Every other online game does it too. You have to leave because your dog ran away? Too bad. Also introduce a report system to report people intentionally depleting the keys. Just like any other online game as well. Imagine dota/league without a proper report system. Yeah, that's m+ in wow for you..

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Are you telling me that out of the thousands of players of WoW, you can't find 2 more dependable players?
    Sure, I play with all thousands of players. There still needs to be some sort of penalty, it doesn't even has to be anything too rash, can be something from drop your score by 50points or something as low as that, or just remove 1 dungeon credit of your vault for bad sportsmanship. Something you can get again if you're willing to put the time on it. Screwing on 4 other players for no excusable reason is def more harmful than not.

  10. #550
    Hmm be enslaved by some shitter with a key he bought trying to get another lock out from it or be free...

    It is very hard for me to decide what horse to back here... just buy a boost.

  11. #551
    Pandaren Monk Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Blizzard should just give you a massive penalty for leaving/disconnecting keys before the timer is off. Every other online game does it too. You have to leave because your dog ran away? Too bad. Also introduce a report system to report people intentionally depleting the keys. Just like any other online game as well. Imagine dota/league without a proper report system. Yeah, that's m+ in wow for you..
    A report system can have false negatives. We already see it being abused with the silence penalty via reporting. Those kinds of systems will require more customer service reps (or GMs) to review cases that have been appealed.

    Frankly, Activision-Blizzard-King (ABK) doesn't want to spend that kind of money. Probably because the return on investment is low.


    Moreover, implementing any kind of penalty (before the timer is off) only encourages players who would have left to screw over the group until the timer is up then they leave. We've covered numerous examples before so I won't rehash them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyarlo View Post
    Screwing on 4 other players for no excusable reason is def more harmful than not.
    But at the same time, 4 players who "waste" the time of the 5th player shouldn't be punished as well? Imagine the scenario where somehow a group of 4 get a high key and they bring in this 5th player who is M+/r.io score appropriate for the key. Then that 5th player finds out that shit, these 4 players are just way over their heads in this dungeon at the high key. They don't know the route, don't know how to handle the affixes, can't even be bother to interrupt/CC when necessary. Why does the 5th player have to suffer through over an hour in a dungeon with utter fools?

    Isn't it harming the 5th player's time by forcing them to literally carry this group of 4 noobs to the end of the dungeon?
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  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    maybe its time for blizzard to introduce "looking for friends " feature then .

    but be honest - most of you dont look for friends - most of you look for people who play on exackly the same level as you do - not lower preferably higher so they can carry you

    what would solve 90 % of toxic issues would be AI playing on level equal to players rating.

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    and what all those dungeons had in common ? i mean there was only 1 "the same" person in all of them

    maybe there was a reason why they were leaving.

    thx god next 2 weeks are "push " weeks so we wont see those threads return untill october 6th
    It’s not about being carried, it’s about not being able to progress without a fixed group or without tons of time to spend applying.

    I’m simply tired having to rely on others, but again I understand that this goes against the game’s spirit so it’s 100% my problem.

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Blizzard should just give you a massive penalty for leaving/disconnecting keys before the timer is off. Every other online game does it too. You have to leave because your dog ran away? Too bad. Also introduce a report system to report people intentionally depleting the keys. Just like any other online game as well. Imagine dota/league without a proper report system. Yeah, that's m+ in wow for you..
    In those "other online games " are you playing with randoms or do you pick and choose teammates like you do for m+?
    Some people think rape threats are acceptable, smh.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The same reason why you are calling a "rape threat" online from a complete stranger as harassment? Why wouldn't you shrug that off when it has 0% chance of actually happening?

  14. #554
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    Ya'll know the scene in Casino Royale? The one with the rope?

    Yeah, give them that.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    nah, that's a delusional assumption. The entire way M+ is designed supports the concept of "Quitting while you're ahead." This includes those that ditch after a single wipe. The concept of a death counter that acts against you is genuinely a plague, and the way high keys are "designed," many deaths can come from a single person's mistake. This mistake could very well and often does come from folks who are "pulling their weight" in terms of damage.

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    Myhtic 0 rewards badges. Mythic + at high keystones rewards currency for exclusive content. There can also be a scaling reward with badges, rewarding more for higher keys, but no loss of rewards for failing to meet a timer. Badges can be used to purchase gear that might not be optimal, but competitive, and takes a while to acquire. Raid bosses also drop badges. This allows Mythics to offer a progression route for raiders without falling victim to arbitrary benchmarks that reward toxic behavior. You will still earn badges even if you don't time a Mythic dungeon.

    The highest mythic dungeons will reward exclusive cosmetics like Challenge Modes of old.
    you are delusional if you think those groups dont exist. i have seen plenty. i refuse to waste time with people who do not put forth the effort, especially in higher keys.

  16. #556
    The eternal struggle between the selfish and those who hate how the selfish waste everyone else's time.

    All the while the selfish finding any way they can to justify their view that the game is supposed to make it fine for them to use others as NPCs, not real people.

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It’s purely abusive behavior that should be banned, because 99% of the time they do it because 1 out of 5 failed so they abuse 3 out of 5 there without deserving it.
    We solved this issue by not running with pugs. We only run with guild members or people we know from other raid guild.. Works great.

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    In those "other online games " are you playing with randoms or do you pick and choose teammates like you do for m+?
    What's the difference between a matchmaker based on points or randomly picking people based on points?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    A report system can have false negatives. We already see it being abused with the silence penalty via reporting. Those kinds of systems will require more customer service reps (or GMs) to review cases that have been appealed.

    Frankly, Activision-Blizzard-King (ABK) doesn't want to spend that kind of money. Probably because the return on investment is low.
    Every other online game can get a report system going, wow can too. Dota handles pretty much every report automatically. Some abuse it - sure. But for the greater good, it's still better than nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Moreover, implementing any kind of penalty (before the timer is off) only encourages players who would have left to screw over the group until the timer is up then they leave. We've covered numerous examples before so I won't rehash them.
    Again, this is why they should add a report system. This problem is solved in 100 other games "easily".

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    why? i do this all the time if i see a grp that asks for 2.5k io in a +15 or "big Dicks only" ill join with my main that has 251 ilvl and score and if isee one misake in the route cc/kicks or them doing less dps than me i tell them "thats not a big dick 2,5k io grp" and leave lol

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    and what is there to abuse a third party score? if every one can do it then no one is "abusing" it lol thats some HC raider "-" iq logic, i would love to reset my keys like i was able to on the TR Realm back in bfa when i did trails
    That's a weirdly antagonistic response. My comment was based on the presumption that the current design intention of keys going up and down was still in place. If the current design philosophy is still intended, a way to game that via DCs would be poor design.

    Whether keys should go up or down (or should be resetable) is a different issue and one I was not commenting on. Given that you failed to understand that, are you sure you're not the one with "-" iq logic?

  20. #560
    Breaking the key of the player who created the group sucks, yep. But then again, players shouldn't be held in moral captivity because of that.

    A solution would be to remove this idiotic keystone system. Just let players run dungeons they want man. Or instead of keystoning, just save the maximum + level they achieved , so if you +3'd NW on, say, +7, you can do +10s of this dungeon whenever you like. No worry about broken key then.

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