Rage quitters in m+ deserve a massive penalty

[Bloodyleech]

i tried that 90% of the time it just comes up with 0 players found sadly.....

If you just write their name, yes, that's what you'll get. You have to actually write their realm. Works 100% of time for me.

[kamuimac]

Score and iLevel are very misleading. It's all too common to join a group with a reasonable score and ilevel for the dungeon in question, just to find out after the dungeon starts that the group either can't time the dungeon, or it will take a lot of wipes for the untimed completion. This is the largest, most singly frustrating aspect of pugging M+. I don't doubt that you see leavers the majority of times, and I'm sure there are some unhinged rage quitters in there as well, but I reckon most people who leave M+ groups do so because what they expect the group to be doesn't correlate with reality, even when score and ilevel say otherwise.

that mainly happens in lower dungeons though . why it happens ? because a lot of people gain " resonable score" from untimed runs.

those are people whos score shoule be in relaity 1/3rd of what they have - but because blizzard is desperate to retain players now and gives point for untimed dungeons the sores of many many people are way overinflated.

which later resoults in stupid wipes and group disbands.

i suggest trying at least 19-20 bracket - as people there have atm corrct attitudes , knowledge about mechanics and exacution.

bracket like 13-17 is absolute cesspool atm due to that overinflated scores and people who belive that just because they got score out of untimed runs they are owed to be able to be carried to 10x15 dungeons a week.

[Googles]

While I have to agree, I can hardly blame @Nachtigal. That crap can get really infuriating at times.

You can't blame him because you have the same insecurities as him. You guys are prime content for r/ImTheMainCharacter. Hate it to break it to you kiddos but you aren't as special as mommy told you.

@Nachtigal

[Zantera]

I think ultimately it just boils down to what kind of person you are. If I can tell the run isn't going the smoothest, I won't throw a fit or flame people because I'm a fairly relaxed/chilled out person and honestly, if the worst scenario I'm facing is a depleted key where I spend 10 minutes more than I need, that's a bullet I'm willing to take for the sake of staying for the group, making sure people get their key done. For the most part I'm just looking to do the key and in time VS out of time isn't the biggest issue, even though doing it in time is nicer ofc.

Then there's people who play with a "me me me" mindset who couldn't care less about the people behind the screens in the group they are at. They'll leave 5 minutes into a key or fake DC, or start throwing insults around like you're at a daycare. It's just different mindsets people have that's all. I would say it's fair if you make it clear before starting the key that "I really want this in time or not at all" and if everyone in the group signs up for that notion, then leaving if things go terrible should be fine. But I feel like most of the pug keys you see fall under the "We aim to time it but if we don't let's finish it at least" umbrella and I still see a lot of people struggling with that.

[Soon-TM]

You can't blame him because you have the same insecurities as him. You guys are prime content for r/ImTheMainCharacter. Hate it to break it to you kiddos but you aren't as special as mommy told you.

@Nachtigal

Gotta love MMOC armchair psychologists

[Biomega]

I think ultimately it just boils down to what kind of person you are. If I can tell the run isn't going the smoothest, I won't throw a fit or flame people because I'm a fairly relaxed/chilled out person and honestly, if the worst scenario I'm facing is a depleted key where I spend 10 minutes more than I need, that's a bullet I'm willing to take for the sake of staying for the group, making sure people get their key done.

That's admirable, but this is a moral virtue, not a moral obligation. It's NICE of you to stay and finish even if it's depleted; but it's not something anyone could REQUIRE of you.

I'd love for there to be a system in place that discourages people from instantly abandoning keys at the first sign of trouble. However I don't see a practical way of implementing such a system currently, so we're stuck with /shrug, move on. If Blizzard ever comes up with a way to make such a system feasible that'd be great, but for now it is what it is.

[kamuimac]

I think ultimately it just boils down to what kind of person you are. If I can tell the run isn't going the smoothest, I won't throw a fit or flame people because I'm a fairly relaxed/chilled out person and honestly, if the worst scenario I'm facing is a depleted key where I spend 10 minutes more than I need, that's a bullet I'm willing to take for the sake of staying for the group, making sure people get their key done. For the most part I'm just looking to do the key and in time VS out of time isn't the biggest issue, even though doing it in time is nicer ofc.

Then there's people who play with a "me me me" mindset who couldn't care less about the people behind the screens in the group they are at. They'll leave 5 minutes into a key or fake DC, or start throwing insults around like you're at a daycare. It's just different mindsets people have that's all. I would say it's fair if you make it clear before starting the key that "I really want this in time or not at all" and if everyone in the group signs up for that notion, then leaving if things go terrible should be fine. But I feel like most of the pug keys you see fall under the "We aim to time it but if we don't let's finish it at least" umbrella and I still see a lot of people struggling with that.

thats all depeends how you name your key htough

if you name it "super hiper ultra push +++++++++++++" then ofc they leave

if yu called it "it might be not in time " then they will likely stay till end even not timed. you may get people with 500 less score - but they will indeed stay forver. just to get depleted score.

[Eli85]

that mainly happens in lower dungeons though . why it happens ? because a lot of people gain " resonable score" from untimed runs.

those are people whos score shoule be in relaity 1/3rd of what they have - but because blizzard is desperate to retain players now and gives point for untimed dungeons the sores of many many people are way overinflated.

which later resoults in stupid wipes and group disbands.

i suggest trying at least 19-20 bracket - as people there have atm corrct attitudes , knowledge about mechanics and exacution.

bracket like 13-17 is absolute cesspool atm due to that overinflated scores and people who belive that just because they got score out of untimed runs they are owed to be able to be carried to 10x15 dungeons a week.

The player power rewards stop at +15. Suggesting that players try a much more difficult bracket that does not offer increased player power is not a palatable solution.

[GnomeEU]

M+ with the time limit, scores, and loot system supports toxic community behaviour.

There's nothing special about clearing a m15. It's a little bit of skill and little bit of gear check, that's it. There's no purpose having it after a few weeks of expansion launch.

On my first char it's fine because I'm somewhere around the top anyway. On my alts the system only annoys me.

There's other ways to prevent abuse than to put a lockout on everyone.
They should just remove the timer etc so ppl would play the game for fun again.

[Firefall]

This is already how the system works today... If you leave or kick someone and they 4man it, you are still eligible for loot, thats why you never ever continue a run.

I think most m+ problems about leavers could be fixed by removing this nonsense, and then adding some kind of penalty if you leave within 20 (15?) minutes of starting the instance, or before three wipes. No penalties given to the second, third, or fourth person to drop group, and no penalties for being kicked (too complicated to add a penalty system).

[Fenrys]

I think most m+ problems about leavers could be fixed by removing this nonsense, and then adding some kind of penalty if you leave within 20 (15?) minutes of starting the instance, or before three wipes. No penalties given to the second, third, or fourth person to drop group, and no penalties for being kicked (too complicated to add a penalty system).

There aren't any problems, and this would be worse than what we have.

[kamuimac]

The player power rewards stop at +15. Suggesting that players try a much more difficult bracket that does not offer increased player power is not a palatable solution.

and so what that it stops ?

you want to play with better players to avoid keys being destoryed ? better players are atm at 20+ already . probably having easier time then most people in +15 pugs.

[Eli85]

and so what that it stops ?

you want to play with better players to avoid keys being destoryed ? better players are atm at 20+ already . probably having easier time then most people in +15 pugs.

I could care less about keys being destroyed. I would like to see score correlate more accurately with practical player skill. Personally, I think that begins with increasing the difficulty at lower keys and making mistakes (eg., missing an interrupt) much more consequential. In other words, make it so that getting carried through lower keys becomes exceedingly more difficult than it already is.

[Nachtigal]

You can't blame him because you have the same insecurities as him. You guys are prime content for r/ImTheMainCharacter. Hate it to break it to you kiddos but you aren't as special as mommy told you.

@Nachtigal

I couldn't care less about what you have to say about me. Truth is, you're just going to see this very little part of myself and just assume you know everything about me. Toodles, googles.

[Puupi]

if yu called it "it might be not in time " then they will likely stay till end even not timed. you may get people with 500 less score - but they will indeed stay forver. just to get depleted score.

Only if that were true.

[kamuimac]

I could care less about keys being destroyed. I would like to see score correlate more accurately with practical player skill. Personally, I think that begins with increasing the difficulty at lower keys and making mistakes (eg., missing an interrupt) much more consequential. In other words, make it so that getting carried through lower keys becomes exceedingly more difficult than it already is.

but it does corelat - you just need to learn how to read this score

this is the problem with statistics - people expect fast simple answer instead put literaly 10 seconds into reading whole data.

doe high score people make mistakes ? sure they do - everyone does we are not robots

but statiticaly person who has like 2400 xp and like 150+ timed dungeons will do much much much less mistakes then person who has like 2k score and like 20 timed dungeons

and at this point of expansion people who care about m+ are already above 100+ timed dungeons this season .

you wanna play with those people .

hell im a casual scrub and i already timed 80+ dungeons.

and the part about stuff being taxing in lower dungeons. it is taxing when they are done at appropiate itlv - thing is most people vastly overgear them . and then hit wall at like 13-15 when gear progress slows down and they cannot overgear them in 1 week . they can in 2 months of gear / VP/ raid . GV farm . but not instantly . thats why they think that +15 is hard.

- - - Updated - - -

Only if that were true.

it is true. not everyone is a nasty person on internet.

last week i was still missing 1 dungeon on tuesday so i joined some random +15 pug . they were honest about boosting their friend in description and i didnt mind missing timer . just wanted to complete 1 . we almsot timed it with 180 itlv lock in group .

[nvaelz]

I think you are mixing up abusive with selfish, they're two different things. Selfishly leaving a group mid run isn't abusive it's selfish, get it?

[Keashaa]

I can tell for sure that people will always find a way to f*ck up other people regardless what kind of penalties are in place.

[Alroxas]

M+ with the time limit, scores, and loot system supports toxic community behaviour.

Eh... The same could be argued for Mythic raids... Or any difficulty of content that seeks to limit participation due to required skill/knowledge checks.

They should just remove the timer etc so ppl would play the game for fun again.

Technically, M+0 is there with no time limit at all. So that already exists? Granted the rewards are lower but less difficulty = lesser rewards.

[Eli85]

but it does corelat - you just need to learn how to read this score

this is the problem with statistics - people expect fast simple answer instead put literaly 10 seconds into reading whole data.

doe high score people make mistakes ? sure they do - everyone does we are not robots

but statiticaly person who has like 2400 xp and like 150+ timed dungeons will do much much much less mistakes then person who has like 2k score and like 20 timed dungeons

and at this point of expansion people who care about m+ are already above 100+ timed dungeons this season .

you wanna play with those people .

hell im a casual scrub and i already timed 80+ dungeons.

and the part about stuff being taxing in lower dungeons. it is taxing when they are done at appropiate itlv - thing is most people vastly overgear them . and then hit wall at like 13-15 when gear progress slows down and they cannot overgear them in 1 week . they can in 2 months of gear / VP/ raid . GV farm . but not instantly . thats why they think that +15 is hard.

Don't be so condescending. I know how to read a score. The difficulty is that score doesn't correlate to what you think it means. Yes, people make mistakes, but there is a difference between missing an interrupt and not bothering to use your interrupt skill at all. When you reach the 10-15 bracket, and if score was an accurate reflection of player skill, you wouldn't get knuckle-draggers who refuse to interrupt and stun--and that's assuming it's even on their bar.

Further, since you're clearly misunderstanding everything I've been trying to say, I'll break it down very simply: I want score to represent what players will be expected to do at the requisite score levels. Using interrupts as an example, if a player refuses or doesn't hot key their interrupt, I want the difficulty of the dungeons to be so that that player can never complete +10s, even when every other player in the party is KSM. This way, when I join a group of people who have scores requisite to complete a +10, the only time interrupts will be missed is due to player error, and not because someone doesn't slot it.

Oh, and for the record, when I actively play, I time a lot of dungeons. So my complaints in this thread aren't related to that, contrary to what you are implying. What I simply want is for the system to play out better, so that I (and others) can avoid the frustrations of having low-skill players in content that they have no business being in.