So, it's probably safe to assume there's not going to be any more WoW content in 2021

[Elias1337]

How can you fall asleep doing LFR and not doing most raid content in TBC when anything before Sunwell was pretty much LFR content?

Especially considering most classes in TBC have 1-2 button rotations. But yea no point in arguing with someone that unironically says LFR = MYthic

As if Vash/Kael wont be killed in the first day, or all other classic raids didn't get put on farm by hundreds of guilds in day 1, and Ragnaros was killed in the first week of Classic didn't happen..

Becouse it wasnt. No for its time back in 2007. Its now yes becouse its you know OLD GAME. Thats kinda what happens to any old game with date mechanics and figured out strats for every single mobs in the game. So no if you would actualy play TBC in 2007 you would know that fights were actualy decently challenging and fun.

[tikcol]

Becouse it wasnt. No for its time back in 2007. Its now yes becouse its you know OLD GAME. Thats kinda what happens to any old game with date mechanics and figured out strats for every single mobs in the game. So no if you would actualy play TBC in 2007 you would know that fights were actualy decently challenging and fun.

Fights were never objectively challenging and fun considering there's nothing fun or challenging about avoiding one mechanic while pressing 1-2 buttons for a few minutes. Fun is subjective though, I'll give you that.

Are you about to argue next mythic kiljaeden would get killed day 1 by thousands of guilds in the first day, just because it's 'old content'?

I hope you don't though.

[Kumorii]

If other games can deal with toxicity in a constructive manner that fosters good behavior - Blizzard can too.

It's not good enough to say, "oh there are many other games that are worse". This is true, but I don't play those games, I did however play wow and the toxicity there is at an all time high with zero oversight.

I believe this is confirmation bias isch. If people are negative towards the game for a reason or another they tend to focus on other negative things. Such as behaviours of others. In my experience, wow isn't any worse or the odd game out compared to other games. All games have their toxic groups. One thing I did notice though is that when I personally just didn't indulge in the nagative behaviour of others and distance myself from it. I reduced the amount of toxicity I got and perceived.

I started playing LoL recently. It's notorious for their toxic behaviour... yet I didn't find much of it. I found it to be pleasant more times than not. Players and people in general have quite a bit of power themselves over how negative their experience will be.
On the contrast, I tend to find that the ones complaining about a toxic community, often are causing some of it themselves. "But it's their fault I act like this" is a common argument... they are trash, which makes "me" mad etc etc.

So yeah I don't buy into Blizzard or any game is causing toxicity. It's players that do.

[Byleth]

So yeah I don't buy into Blizzard or any game is causing toxicity. It's players that do.

Completely misssed the point. You claimed Blizzard caused this toxic culture, when that is total BS.

You'll note that I never said that Blizzard was causing the toxicity. You are 100% right that in most cases it is player behavior.

My point was that other games handle toxicity in their communities a lot better than wow does, and I believe that Blizzard can do better.

[Elias1337]

Fights were never objectively challenging and fun considering there's nothing fun or challenging about avoiding one mechanic while pressing 1-2 buttons for a few minutes. Fun is subjective though, I'll give you that.

Are you about to argue next mythic kiljaeden would get killed day 1 by thousands of guilds in the first day, just because it's 'old content'?

I hope you don't though.

Yes they were. And nothing you will say will change that. You clearly never played 2007 TBC.

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Completely misssed the point. You claimed Blizzard caused this toxic culture, when that is total BS.


Also, other games don't deal with toxicity better than what WoW does. Go watch some League matches, CS matches, basically anything. They are all terrible. The entire community (gamers) is full of toxicity and terrible people.

They are not. I dont know why you bring up League. Its impossible in that game be toxic for more than few days before you get permabanned. All you need get few reports than their system scan your entire chat and if there is single bad word you get restricted or banned. League isnt toxic like it used to be anymore. If you would play that game you would know this. Stop please giving opions on games what you do not play thanks.

[tikcol]

Yes they were. And nothing you will say will change that. You clearly never played 2007 TBC.

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They are not. I dont know why you bring up League. Its impossible in that game be toxic for more than few days before you get permabanned. All you need get few reports than their system scan your entire chat and if there is single bad word you get restricted or banned. League isnt toxic like it used to be anymore. If you would play that game you would know this. Stop please giving opions on games what you do not play thanks.

Is that some kind of coping mechanism? WoW TBC is hard therefore.. Whatever goes on in your mind.

Genuinely curious about your inability to be honest about the difficulty of the expansion.

[Accendor]

Simply untrue.

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You think Blizzard caused this? What about all of the non WoW/Blizzard related games/media platforms that are just as bad or often even worse?


It isn't a Blizzard problem, its a humanity problem. The relative anonymity the the internet provides allows people to act like scum bags with no repercussions.

No, its really something that Blizzard has cultivated when they removed basically all social aspects from the game and bad everything and everyone replacable.

[Niwes]

No, its really something that Blizzard has cultivated when they removed basically all social aspects from the game and bad everything and everyone replacable.

This.

Its not solely for the fact, that they removed (or better said: not strengthened) social aspects. but its foremost that they directly support that toxic behaviour, by:

Blizzards lack of responsibility, by doing a game design, that supports toxic behaviour. foremost when it comes down to the meta aspects in game design. in example no Desserteur system for leaving M+, when more than lets say 3 ppls are not of the same guild, or when the PUG tool was used for creating the grp. Or in example an automatic AFK kicking system for LFR. Or in example a PUG tool that works more like some bulletin board, where players offer themselfes, than offering a leader/grp. Or in example voting systems for players. Or player behaviour valueing crossrealm, etc.

Blizzard does nearly nothing meta systems wise in game design, to take their responsibility for how the game plays out. they do nothing and go like „community forms itself“ and when community fucks up, its their fault. Its like some country going „lets piss on laws and delete them, ppl forming themselfes“.

if you own a game like wow, you are responsible for the constraints and the frame of ppls behaviour, by the game design and how all the meta stuff plays out. doing simply nothing and call it „the community‘s fault“ is just lazy and will always lead to toxic behaviour, cause of human behaviour in anonymous internet.

so yes, its 60% Blizzards fault by doing nothing meta systems wise and therefore directly supporting toxic behaviour. and 40% community‘s fault, because ppls are assholes when anonym on interwebz.

[Lolites]

This argument always makes me feel pity for the person who says it.

Is that how you value your time? Trying to see how cheaply you can waste it? Not only is your time meaningless, but absolute cost efficiency is a major variable in the equation of your happiness. Does it ever occur to the people who say this that perhaps they wouldn't have to count their pennies if their main focus in life wasn't about finding the cheapest way to get their high?

Is this what people who still play WoW after all this time think about? How they're actually living more efficiently because their entertainment is cheaper than everyone else's entertainment; their time is just something that needs to be spent on a game, so they should find the most cost-efficient game to spend it on.

It's sad.

And what's even sadder -- this argument isn't even true anymore. The market of high-quality free to play games is crazy these days. I suppose WoW players aren't aware of that with their tunnel vision, but the monthly subscription you spend at this point is actually very cost inefficient.

arent your hands tired from twisting his words so much?

[Osmeric]

You think Blizzard caused this? What about all of the non WoW/Blizzard related games/media platforms that are just as bad or often even worse?

It isn't a Blizzard problem, its a humanity problem. The relative anonymity the the internet provides allows people to act like scum bags with no repercussions.

And yet, this doesn't seem to be a problem on every game. So details of game design DO matter.

One cannot just say "players are behaving a certain way, therefore it's the fault of players". Design influences what players do, and designers, not players, have the responsibility to deliver a well-functioning product to the customers.

If player behavior is always the players' fault, then devs are absolved of all responsibility. After all, quitting a game is a player behavior too. Are the devs allowed to say "that's not on me, the players did it" when players leave?